Do you ever think about this? I do and here it is: I’m all for clean air in California (cause I live here) but equally so I know there is a price to pay living under California (Sacramento) legislators who insist on being THE pioneer, the leader in smog/ pollution reduction. (the price the people pay is the two year smog check program, the difficulty (or impossibility) of modifying/ changing your drivetrain in any way, having to have special California certified catalytic converters, etc.)
That being said, I’ve always thought to myself that there’s nothing wrong with being a model example for the rest of the world to follow but at what price AND why are we putting ourselves under this costly, restrictive & heavy burden (to be a poster child for cleaning up the air) when the rest of the world does not seem as concerned??
On a different note: Seems to me the effort should be put on getting / investing in other countries to clean up THEIR air. (starting with the basics like a smog program) Look at third world countries with little to no smog regulations or pollution controls in place and their high population numbers. They can certainly be labeled “Gross Polluters”. (as California would call them) Yet, nobody points a finger at them.
My last point: Why be the poster child for clean air when nobody is following in your footsteps? Maybe they don’t care? Maybe they’re laughing at us Californians as though we are a joke? Do they think we are all “eco-freaks” or “Sierra Club Tree huggers”? 🙁 Your thoughts? Kit
[This message has been edited by Kitskaboodle (edited 07-23-2024).]
Suggest you get real facts & stop being brainwashed fool pushing same crap the EPA & CARB has been push down everyone's throats for since the 1970's.
Example: Fuel Oxygenates like MTBE now Ethanol Didn't "Clean up" exhaust like EPA & CARB claimed. The fact is most gas engines in 1980 & later now have FI w/ O2 sensors & Close Loop operation allow the engines to Not run Rich like vast majority of carburetors did in vehicles & still do on boats & aircraft because of huge problem running Lean.
Worse, US uses Corn Ethanol that Generate huge emission headache because how much Diesel, Electric, & waste to make it & since Ethanol is super Hygroscopic so Must be Shipped in Sealed Tankers mostly by Train to each regional distributors. Go use Google Maps & distillers & distributor have RR tracks setups specifically to handle Ethanol tankers. Example: https://www.google.com/maps...a=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu this loop is the "ethanol dump" just for 1 gas distributor for DE, South NJ, SE PA, East MD, & some VA on Delmarva.
Obama EPA Force Ethanol to Help Monsanto & others. Not to "help the environment" but that is exactly the spin use to "justify" this scam. Worse using Food for Fuel still jack the price then everything else like animal feeds has to jack prices just to keep same profit even before Biden made the Treasury to Spin out Trillions of $.
You likely believe Leaded Gas is "Banned..." Only for Vehicles because is Death to the Catalyst. The "ban" only happen in Late 1980's because the majority pre-cat vehicles where scrapped after 10+ years & way less demand of selling Ethyl Gas. Avgas including Avgas LL still have TEL, Tetraethyllead, that's 100+ times Worse then Lead Metal. TEL will go thru you skin super fast that even if you wash off in seconds to minutes, TEL is still attacking you for just got into the skin.
DuPont Chambers Works, Deepwater NJ, (Now part of Chemours spinoff) that made TEL are still "cleaning" up the mess there. Huge numbers of staff at that site alone not only suffered lead poisoning but many track the crap home & poison others. DOD wanted to ship VX waste disposal to the site later to dump in the Delaware River but every state involved fought this plan.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
I have thought about stuff. Been wrong about a LOT of stuff, but...
Honestly? NOTHING really "matters". (prove me wrong)...
You aren't here in 50-100 years.
So just enjoy your life.
Because one day, you won't be here. And MAYBE you'll just sleep forever, like Tool says in "Sober". or maybe you'll live forever and dance around with "God and paint his toenails and stuff. I mean, PLEASE. Are there ANY "Non-molested" Adults in the room...?
Ok, SURE - you'll meet up with ALL your dogs and cats and other pets over on the other side of the rainbow bridge (or whatever). and all your loved ones in heaven or whatever. You'll asll be sittin' in lawn chairs for eternity and relish that you "picked the right team"
Am I wrong here?
Tell me that you aren't just "food for worms".
Humans are just "SO SPECIAL".
If we are, we are "SPECIAL ED" because even though we have the "best" brain", BOY ARE WE RETARDED!
I love my limited life and I Love the "sparkle" in the eyes of my loved ones... but the rest of the world knows something we don't... (or won't accept...)
Originally posted by Kitskaboodle: Do you ever think about this? I do and here it is:
Are you kidding ? My thoughts ?
Aside this topic being in Politics and Religion, I think about the Green New Scam very often. Clean air, ?
Oh, the horrors. Clean air is dirty air. Let's throw in "think of the children". Let's not stop there. Publicly guilt those who have a different opinion.
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Originally posted by Kitskaboodle: I’m all for clean air in California (cause I live here) but equally so I know there is a price to pay living under California (Sacramento) legislators who insist on being THE pioneer, the leader in smog/ pollution reduction. (the price the people pay is the two year smog check program, the difficulty (or impossibility) of modifying/ changing your drivetrain in any way, having to have special California certified catalytic converters, etc.)
No one is for dirty air, no one ! We can easily see why Californians are striving for clean air. The smog clouds hovering over Los Angels in days gone by were easily seen in the famous snap shot in times gone by. Build a city inside a bowl, wait for a day with still air, take a picture. Our concentrations of dirty air are minuscule compared to Los Angeles.
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Originally posted by Kitskaboodle: That being said, I’ve always thought to myself that there’s nothing wrong with being a model example for the rest of the world to follow but at what price AND why are we putting ourselves under this costly, restrictive & heavy burden (to be a poster child for cleaning up the air) when the rest of the world does not seem as concerned?
Have your belief that you are smarter than everyone else. Force upon the world that you are ? You are in the wrong boat.
All bow down to the genius of California ? Is there something in the water, or, is it the air pollution which make Californians geniuses, or could it be idiots ?
California is the home of their next hopeful "dear leader". A democratic candidate who never earned a vote. The Senator with a more progressive agenda record than even Bernie Sanders. She is running on "freedom".
Yeah, right . We MUST drive the motherland's car, give up our gas stoves, use an energy source which is less reliable the fossil fuels not to mention more expensive. There are more freedoms democrats want to impose on us.
The reason y'all are putting yourselves under the costly, restrictive & heavy burden of dirty air is simple. You can see the air that y'all create. Los Angeles is not the only city in the world located in a valley.
You mention the rest of the world does not seem as concerned. America was less concerned before the "Great Indoctrination". I mean cash grab.
It is documented that the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) collected data in places not scientific, ones meant to give high readings. The IPCC was caught, by the Climate Change email expose of which three FACTS emerged.
Three themes are emerging from the released emails: (1) prominent scientists central to the global warming debate are taking measures to conceal rather than disseminate underlying data and discussions; (2) these scientists view global warming as a political “cause” rather than a balanced scientific inquiry; 3) many of the scientists frankly admit to each other that much of the science is weak and dependent on deliberate manipulation of facts and data.
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Originally posted by Kitskaboodle: Seems to me the effort should be put on getting / investing in other countries to clean up THEIR air. (starting with the basics like a smog program) Look at third world countries with little to no smog regulations or pollution controls in place and their high population numbers. They can certainly be labeled “Gross Polluters”. (as California would call them) Yet, nobody points a finger at them.
Third world countries ? Gross polluters ? Major countries take our "investments" and pretend that they care. Give me free money and I will buy an electric car. Drive it ? Give me more money. Does "the Home of the Free" wish to dictate to the world ?
Kit, I think about that fact every day. Most states don't give a crap about pollution nor do other countries. It's just another Liberal/greenie/hippy ploy to raise taxes and fees. Hell, India buys all of the old ALCO Locomotives that are outdated and this is how they perform:
[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 07-24-2024).]
Ever been to South Korea? Was there back in 2018. Those poor people have to put up with the crap that rains down on them from China, it would make me want to start shooting. This smog is largely blamed on sandstorms from the Gobi Desert but people I talked to in South Korea claim the smog is also from un-filtered Chinese coal powered power plants along the Chinese eastern shore.
Kit, I think about that fact every day. Most states don't give a crap about pollution nor do other countries. It's just another Liberal/greenie/hippy ploy to raise taxes and fees. Hell, India buys all of the old ALCO Locomotives that are outdated and this is how they perform:
India has huge concerns about their air quality. They close schools on bad air days. They shut down truck traffic in cities on bad air days. The government request people to work from home on bad ir days.
The only people who don't care about bad air are people who value corporate profits over human lives.
Aside from the lack of facts posted or available to make a real opinion to base a comment on.
I sure liked it when Covid lock down happened and no one was on the hiways.
You could see for miles and miles. Damn near a night / day difference.
ahhh...you were an "essential" worker too! The commute was the one and ONLY thing positive in 2020. Not only the speed but people were routinely running red lights, stop signs etc. They knew the police weren't going to stop them because of COVID and oh- yeah, the police were the devils in disguise according to the media....
[This message has been edited by MarkS (edited 08-26-2024).]
We should get rid of laws against cigarettes...smoking doesn't cause cancer...just like when up camping, you would WANT to sit DOWN-wind of the campfire to breath in all that good wood smoke.
You can't see CO2....so it can't have any affect...same with oxygen- it is invisible, so you don't really need it; Remember when you were a kid, and woke up UNDER the covers? You didn't need oxygen then, and you don't need it now!
I played with lead and mercury when I was a kid- didn't affect me at all- the only reason people get poisoned is because they >>Believe<< the whack-o science jonnies and their BS...The oil industry and the tobacco industry spent BILLIONS trying to inform us of how their stuff wasn't bad for us- and we should believe them- why would they lie about it?
ALL chemicals are good for us- if you die from one of them it's YOUR fault- not the chemical company who is just trying to make a profit!
Crap where you eat!!!
[This message has been edited by cvxjet (edited 08-25-2024).]
Do you ever think about this? I do and here it is: I’m all for clean air in California (cause I live here) but equally so I know there is a price to pay living under California (Sacramento) legislators who insist on being THE pioneer, the leader in smog/ pollution reduction. (the price the people pay is the two year smog check program, the difficulty (or impossibility) of modifying/ changing your drivetrain in any way, having to have special California certified catalytic converters, etc.)
That being said, I’ve always thought to myself that there’s nothing wrong with being a model example for the rest of the world to follow but at what price AND why are we putting ourselves under this costly, restrictive & heavy burden (to be a poster child for cleaning up the air) when the rest of the world does not seem as concerned??
On a different note: Seems to me the effort should be put on getting / investing in other countries to clean up THEIR air. (starting with the basics like a smog program) Look at third world countries with little to no smog regulations or pollution controls in place and their high population numbers. They can certainly be labeled “Gross Polluters”. (as California would call them) Yet, nobody points a finger at them.
My last point: Why be the poster child for clean air when nobody is following in your footsteps? Maybe they don’t care? Maybe they’re laughing at us Californians as though we are a joke? Do they think we are all “eco-freaks” or “Sierra Club Tree huggers”? 🙁 Your thoughts? Kit
Eh, let American taxpayers foot the bill to clean up the rest of the world.....
Originally posted by cvxjet: We should get rid of laws against cigarettes...smoking doesn't cause cancer...just like when up camping, you would WANT to sit DOWN-wind of the campfire to breath in all that good wood smoke.
Your from Kalifornia. You should know everything causes cancer.
Did 'ja know cvxiet that Kalifornia just banned wild fires ?
Cliff- I have lived in CA most of my life- working at NAS Alameda, and camping in NORTHERN California, where most people live in small towns...Hate SoCal because too many people and all are idiots down there. NorCal is very conservative....and has a lot of forest- all of the trees are dying up there because of droughts....
When I was young, we would drive up to Washington to visit relatives- after we drove into Oregon, you could tell because of the smell- exhaust from no-regs cars.
I hope, Cliff, that you smoke cigarettes- because you KNOW they don't cause cancer....reNember that all scientists are evil liars....except for the ones that are being paid by the oil industry....
Are you going to move forward with declaring all oil executives "Royalty"...?
[This message has been edited by cvxjet (edited 08-27-2024).]
...but a lot of people in California like to point fingers...
Edit to add - why is everyone all about this clean air garbage anyways? Ok, you want to clean up the planet, power to you - BUT - the often over looked problem is garbage and e-waste. No one seems to talk about the "garbage problem"...it is only about oil and gas and how cars are bad for the environment.
[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 08-28-2024).]
Originally posted by cvxjet: I hope, Cliff, that you smoke cigarettes- because you KNOW they don't cause cancer....reNember that all scientists are evil liars....except for the ones that are being paid by the oil industry....
In your smoking analogy you meant tobacco industry. Oil industry works.
Every scientist is paid by someone / cause.
I have smoked my entire life. 65 years old, no cancer. My sister never smoked, 67 years old. She got cancer.
quote
Originally posted by cvxjet: Are you going to move forward with declaring all oil executives "Royalty"...?
I have 40+ years of oil field experience. I have never called my supervisor "boss" or "sir".
Since this thread is about cleaning up the planet... my cat does her best to clean up the yard. I found this in her food dish on the back porch tonight. She wants me to be fully aware that she's doing her job. lol
I'm all for maintaining a cleaner / healthier environment for everyone... especially because as the population grows, the more desirable land tends to be in areas that are more ecologically diverse (and more important to save). I had a conversation with someone a few days ago who was frustrated that we don't just drain the Everglades and start building more homes to reduce the cost of home ownership in Miami and Fort Lauderdale. The thought was... "Why do people who live there, have more right than people who want to move there?"
I cannot argue with why someone wants to be there, but life isn't always equal. There are people who live in Martha's Vineyard, and Chappaquiddick, who got in back in the 40s and 50s when it wasn't very expensive, and no one really wanted to live there. Just kind of the same thing. Nature's resources are limited, and to an extent, we have to protect them.
For clean air, etc... California does take it to an extreme. On the question, "to what extent," I'd have to say the limit is where it begins to negatively affect the economy... beyond that of other states. To that point, the federal government does a pretty good job of regulating emissions. If I'm not mistaken, the United States has stricter emissions laws than even Europe on gas-powered vehicles. At least, it was this way a decade ago. I don't think that's bad... but Florida has no emissions and safety inspections. They eliminated them because they realized all it was doing was creating undue hardship on the poor and lower middle-class, and new cars already had progressively better emissions. So, they came to the conclusion that having a safety and emissions program was merely causing more harm than good.
The U.S. Government has a long history of making poor decisions ... as in, mandating bad decisions for the auto industry, usually due to lobbying. This is frustrating. Perfect example are the charcoal pellet catalytic converters. They're far less efficient than the honeycomb converters (which were invented before the charcoal pellet ones). But the U.S. mandated the charcoal ones, and this dramatically reduced engine performance, which meant that cars were in effect burning MORE gas to perform the same actions. It was wasteful. Rather than focusing on improving efficiency, the decisions actually heavily restricted engine performance, which just made engines have to use more gas to do the same task. I'd have to say that the early to mid 2000s was probably peak efficiency for engines. Most cars had completely eliminated EGR systems, becuase the computers and emissions systems were able to work better without them.
I guess what I'm saying is... we should all be working smarter when it comes to vehicle regulation and emissions requirements. Most of the regulations we now have on cars today, is to protect us against pickup trucks that are currently unregulated. This all has to do with the power of lobbying. Truck can still have bumpers, where as cars pretty much look like eggs today. There's so much unnecessary stuff being added to cars now that it increases cost, increases waste, and reduces efficiency due to the fact that the cars weigh significantly more.
Living in this pathetic state, I'll just say that there's a huge difference between the residents of California choosing to keep the air clean or the shitty governor and his greenie hippy mentality FORCING us to clean the air or else. Huge difference. THAT is what tips the scale of staying, or moving to another state.
[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 09-07-2024).]
I mean, PLEASE. Are there ANY "Non-molested" Adults in the room...?
? My thoughts ? 
