With some much emotion and conflicting information out there, how can I see the bill itself? Does the law forbid people from getting food or water line line? Or can they get food or water? Does the law restrict or hinder anyone from voting? Is Georgia law comparable to other State laws?
With some much emotion and conflicting information out there, how can I see the bill itself? Does the law forbid people from getting food or water line line? Or can they get food or water? Does the law restrict or hinder anyone from voting? Is Georgia law comparable to other State laws?
It's 95 pages and 2,427 lines long. Most of it is related to the county/state officials and how they are appointed and the over sight of the election process includiong challenges to the outcome, the individual voter's (elector's) qualifactions.
The part about the water just prevent officials or poll watchers from hand delivering any food or drink to the voter. The voter can use any self service means to get something to drink and of course, the voter (elector) can bring their own water.
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"(e) This Code section shall not be construed to prohibit a poll officer from distributing 1825 materials, as required by law, which are necessary for the purpose of instructing electors 1826 or from distributing materials prepared by the Secretary of State which are designed solely 1827 for the purpose of encouraging voter participation in the election being conducted or from 1828 making available self-service water from an unattended receptacle to an elector waiting in 1829 line to vote."
If I'm not mistaken, Georgia's lieutenant governor was on TV yesterday and saying that he didn't like the bill. He characterized it as voter "suppression"; i.e., as being unfairly restrictive and inconvenient for voters, with implicit discrimination built into it against black voters and other racial and ethnic minorities. He was sounding more like a Democrat about it, than like a Republican.
Of course, that puts him at odds with another prominent Republican--Georgia governor Brian Kemp who famously signed the bill into law under a large wall-mounted painting of a Southern plantation, looking very "antebellum." Democrats have railed against it as a "slave plantation." I haven't taken a real close look, but I don't think there are any slaves in the painting. Not sure there are any people depicted in the painting.
I've selected Guns N' Roses (YouTube) as a musical tribute to Georgia state representative Park Cannon (D) who was arrested after knocking repeatedly on the closed door to the governor's office when they were signing the bill. (She wasn't invited for the bill signing ceremony.)
Georgia's lieutenant governor Geoff Duncan (R) describing the bill as "fallout" from 10 weeks of "misinformation" from former President Trump and the Trump entourage about (alleged) election shenanigans having caused Georgia's electoral college votes to be fraudulently awarded to Joe Biden.
Originally posted by Jake_Dragon: How is getting an ID racist? Serious question(.)
Great question--for me.
I didn't think anyone had ever gone by the name "Ilya" since the Illya Kuryakin character in the long ago Man From U.N.C.L.E. television series, but here's the Cato Institute's Ilya (just one 'l") Shapiro expounding on the reaction to Georgia's new election law.
Calling laws like Georgia’s “Jim Crow 2.0” is just as dangerous for the confidence the citizenry must have in our electoral processes as spreading myths about illegitimate elections.
I have not perused this commentary, but I do expect that within it, Ilya Shapiro comes down on the side of more exact requirements for voter ID. A more Republican-leaning way of thinking.
Here's Ilya Shapiro yesterday, in a conversation about it with MSNBC anchor Chris Hayes.
"Shades Of Jim Crow: How GOP Is Using The 'Big Lie' To Roll Back Voting Access" All In With Chris Hayes of MSNBC; April 7, 2021. YouTube video content; 12+ minutes. https://youtu.be/CVbsB_ftgZQ
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 04-08-2021).]
I just had an epiphany, not for any clearly foreseeable future, but much farther out.
Could there be a way to use Quantum Computing and the esoteric yet very real phenomenon of Quantum Entanglement to set up a personal ID system that would be extremely stringent and reliable, but at the same time, provide a firewall of separation to protect individual privacy and prevent even the smallest realistic possibility of unwarranted government intrusion into this personal ID "space."
A quantum breakthrough for voting and also for the NICS (gun purchase background checks) applications. Not to mention applications for the healthcare and medical care sectors.
Based on reports from a "biased" media, the new GA law is less restrictive than twenty some other states, one of them being President Biden's home state of Delaware. IMHO, the whole bill is to restore some confidence in the system. Whether or not the last election was fair or rigged, that's water under the bridge. Voters need to believe the system is honest and fair. Confidence in that system was lost, specifically in the state of GA. Something needed to be done.
Now, if only Professional Sports and the NCAA would just get out of social and political issues, we could all go back to living normal lives. With the Baseball All Star Game being moved from Atlanta to Denver in protest, the folks that were hurt were the very people Pro Baseball was supposedly supporting. There's some really silly people out there. But, had they not done something, a very liberal press would have been all over them. Such is the world we now live in. As with sands in the hour glass, so go the days of our lives.
"(e) This Code section shall not be construed to prohibit a poll officer from distributing 1825 materials, as required by law, which are necessary for the purpose of instructing electors Or from 1828 making available self-service water from an unattended receptacle to an elector waiting in 1829 line to vote.[/U]"
Doesn't the law say that pole watchers can distribute water?
If the State chooses to set up a water stand.....it is an allowance in the text of the law. Am I wrong?
[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 04-08-2021).]
If I understand all I read, poll watchers (and others) in Ga can no longer hand out anything to the voters at official election locations or drop off boxes except official correspondence that is directly related to the voting process. Poll watchers are not only or always part of the official county/state administration. Quite often, each side of the political spectrum will have their own poll watchers present keeping an eye on everything that goes on. (I can't speak for how it is or has been in Georgia) This change I assume, is to remove even the appearance of impropriety in regards to vote influence. I have seen in different places in my life, poll watchers of one side or another handing out everything from bottled drinks, to sliced pizza, and even coupons redeemable down the street & good for 'una cerveza fría'.
By using the phrase 'self service' I took it to mean either a water fountain or a table with bottled water just sitting on it as the voter passed by. I did read on one source, that a water station can have no writing or signage stating who provided the water.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 04-08-2021).]
Originally posted by Rickady88GT: Doesn't the law say that pole watchers can distribute water?
If the State chooses to set up a water stand.....it is an allowance in the text of the law. Am I wrong?
They can set up self serve water, but they cannot hand the water to the voters.
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:
Great question--for me.
I didn't think anyone had ever gone by the name "Ilya" since the Illya Kuryakin character in the long ago Man From U.N.C.L.E. television series, but here's the Cato Institute's Ilya (just one 'l") Shapiro expounding on the reaction to Georgia's new election law.
I have not perused this commentary, but I do expect that within it, Ilya Shapiro comes down on the side of more exact requirements for voter ID. A more Republican-leaning way of thinking.
Here's Ilya Shapiro yesterday, in a conversation about it with MSNBC anchor Chris Hayes.
"Shades Of Jim Crow: How GOP Is Using The 'Big Lie' To Roll Back Voting Access" All In With Chris Hayes of MSNBC; April 7, 2021. YouTube video content; 12+ minutes. https://youtu.be/CVbsB_ftgZQ
So in far far far less words, like I could describe my whole day and still rephrase it in lesss words- it is racist to require photo ID to vote because a few people describe it as a new Jim Crow style law?
[This message has been edited by LitebulbwithaFiero (edited 04-08-2021).]
Throwing the race card always gets the media's attention and thusly one side or another gets excited causing everyone to have a stressful day. Drama gets folks attention and that sells news papers, magazines and commercials on television.
Ok, thanks for the info on the water. Basically there is no pandering or influencing voters in line. But a neutral party an provide food or water, including the State or County as long as there is no campaigning attached to it?
What about the other issues that keep coming up? Suppression and voting drop boxes and restrictions and Sundays and number of early voting days?
I don't know where it is but at one time I had a Florida voters registration card, you couldn't vote without one.
You don't use that anymore. I don't even think they issue them anymore. The card (if they do), is just to show what precint you belong to, and where your voting location is... e.g. U23, etc. They ask for a photo ID. That can even include a credit card that has your photo on it.. but in doing so, you must also show something else that does have your signature on it, like a social security card. Basically... they require a drivers license.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: You don't use that anymore. I don't even think they issue them anymore. The card (if they do), is just to show what precint you belong to, and where your voting location is... e.g. U23, etc. They ask for a photo ID. That can even include a credit card that has your photo on it.. but in doing so, you must also show something else that does have your signature on it, like a social security card. Basically... they require a drivers license.
OMG!!!! We all know that minorities don't have driver's licenses.................................... Oops, wrong again. Actually, GA will accept quite a few different forms of id. But in each case, it's got to be something that can prove who you are one way or another and have the right to vote there. OMG!!! That's so racist NOT.
OMG!!!! We all know that minorities don't have driver's licenses.................................... Oops, wrong again. Actually, GA will accept quite a few different forms of id. But in each case, it's got to be something that can prove who you are one way or another and have the right to vote there. OMG!!! That's so racist NOT.
Rams
I am 100% OK with requiring a government-issued picture ID that proves you are a citizen, and to prevent voter fraud. Just wanted to make sure that was clear.
The best video I saw... and I'll see if I can find it... was a bunch of young white kids on a college campus LITERALLY saying that black people were too stupid to figure out how to get on the internet, and therefore need our (white people's) help and why picture ID laws are racist. I could not believe what I was hearing... I rarely feel uncomfortable seeing things, but man. What these kids think is just so outrageous and idiotic.
Originally posted by blackrams: You really do live in the Twilight Zone don't you? I thought that was all fantasy......
The sending and receiving of quantum encrypted messages is not fantasy. It's only at the stage of almost basic scientific research and experiments-still very speculative. Didn't I say as much?
Why did I say anything about it?
Because it's the first time that I remember thinking of it in connection with voter ID and other aspects of elections and election security. A "Eureka" moment.
Why did I say anything about it in this Georgia voting law topic?
If I thought this Pennock's Off Topic section were a serious thing--a "BFD" (and I don't mean Bidirectional Forwarding Detection)--I wouldn't have said anything about it in this thread.
I've had a thought, that I put something up here that's not a big deal to me and it seems very harmless--something that a person with an office-sized video monitor easily scrolls right over if they don't want to read it beyond the first few words or don't want to read it as soon as they see "rinselberg"--just scrolls right over it and gets back into the previous flow of the thread--but it's an irritating disruption for a "blackrams" or for other guys that are using a smartphone or some other portable device? In that case, it's like a speed bump, or (gasp) a pothole, for them to just scroll over "me." ??
I've had that thought before, but I keep forgetting it.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 04-09-2021).]
You can get a state ID card that looks just like a driver license, but without the driving license part. I cannot image it to be too expensive, and it is 1 thing that I am okay paying for other people with my tax money to relieve any burden.
[This message has been edited by LitebulbwithaFiero (edited 04-09-2021).]
Maybe the below has been said but are we supposed to believe minorities are harmed by this law? Why can't they use the same ID as when they buy Swisher Sweets, Black and Mild and alcohol?
You can get a state ID card that looks just like a driver license, but without the driving license part. I cannot image it to be too expensive, and it is 1 thing that I am okay paying for other people with my tax money to relieve any burden.
I looked it up, and in Michigan it is $10 for a state ID and it does expire. Why it expires makes no sense to me currently.
You can't cash a check, buy tobacco nor alcohol without the ID.
So they people harmed must not buy tobacco , alcohol or get paid.
But, in the Liberal states, you can vote. Scribble a name on the mail in ballot and someone counting the votes (who is not a hand writing expert) will verify your signature. Yeah, that's the ticket. Vote at every opportunity, vote several times if you can get away with it.
You didn't legally do those things. Read more carefully. That is if you have the typical MUST ID laws.
There will always be vote fraud. All you can do is limit it as best that can be done without limiting participation. Felons aren't allowed to vote but do have IDs and probably have voted.
[This message has been edited by sourmash (edited 04-09-2021).]
You didn't legally do those things. Read more carefully. That is if you have the typical MUST ID laws.
There will always be vote fraud. All you can do is limit it as best that can be done without limiting participation. Felons aren't allowed to vote but do have IDs and probably have voted.
True. One of my brothers has a pretty good list of felonies and he votes at every election when he's not in jail. He only has a state-issued ID. No driver's license (felony violations).
I did it all legally so I am not sure where my reading issue is.
And at any rate, the original point was you can do all those things without ID.
So there is the possibility of American citizens that are eligible to vote not having an ID.
Which still does not excuse the need for voter ID. Which makes this whole discussion pointless.
Cliff notes; - voter ID being neccessary for a clean election
-if the issue is that it is seen as a burden on the citizens eligible to vote, ease the burden by making it easier to get the ID, but not to get a false ID.
There's something fishy about this situation, and the focus (and money) being spent. Sports pulled out of it, probably a lot of movie and TV show production... Companies spent a lot of $ putting out ads regarding this.
The political stuff used to be more subtle... now we see it, but the way these things fit together isn't so clear...
Well, ok MONEY... like Billions of it....guess that can be a motive or whatever...
I did it all legally so I am not sure where my reading issue is.
And at any rate, the original point was you can do all those things without ID.
So there is the possibility of American citizens that are eligible to vote not having an ID.
Which still does not excuse the need for voter ID. Which makes this whole discussion pointless.
Cliff notes; - voter ID being neccessary for a clean election
-if the issue is that it is seen as a burden on the citizens eligible to vote, ease the burden by making it easier to get the ID, but not to get a false ID.
I know you think you're making a valid point but you really aren't. You're arguing both sides and trying to use a minor exception as though it's the norm. Get passed your obstinacy and admit that your state requires proof you're over 21 to buy alcohol at a licensed establishment. There will always be exceptions.
You also don't live in Georgia which requires proof of age to buy alcohol, tobacco andf firearms.
My state has MUST ID laws, but last alcohol I bought I wasn't asked for it. I was only asked if I wanted it in a bag. Never been in that shop before either so it wasnt from past knowledge of my age.
A new GA law is only as good as those abiding by it. Which is why there are checks.
admit that your state requires proof you're over 21 to buy alcohol at a licensed establishment.
You also don't live in Georgia which requires proof of age to buy alcohol, tobacco andf firearms.
My state has MUST ID laws, but last alcohol I bought I wasn't asked for it. I was only asked if I wanted it in a bag. Never been in that shop before either so it wasnt from past knowledge of my age.
A new GA law is only as good as those abiding by it. Which is why there are checks.
My state does require you are 21 years of age or older to purchase or consume alcohol. I cannot find where it says you have to legally prove that your are. At any rate the burden is on the seller.
But as you point out above and back to my very simple point that I was making- you can get alcohol without an ID.
The exception is not the rule even though you pretend it is. There will always be people seeing the glass half empty.
I've lived in states requiring State ID to vote. Are there cheaters who will allow people through? Probably, but not in.mass But nobody is advertising they accomplished voting without ID.
You have to have ID in GA to rent to own, to pawn things, to catch a fish on public waters as an adult.
Tho I haven't bought booze in a long time, I'm pretty sure in my own state, it is illegal to sell it to anyone without asking for valid ID and illegal to buy it without presenting a valid ID. The burden is placed on both sides of the counter.
I've cashed lots of checks (personal and payroll) at both my banks and at local merchants without having to present a photo or other ID. (I rarely use paper checks now tho)
IF, one uses a debit card to get cash from an ATM or cash back at a business, is almost the same as cashing a check and the only id required is whatever info is in the chip or mag stripe of the card and the associated pin #.
There's some really silly people out there. But, had they not done something, a very liberal press would have been all over them. Such is the world we now live in. As with sands in the hour glass, so go the days of our lives. 
