...it might succeed. Now, I have no doubt Mars had, and likely has, life on(within) it. In the future when they finally discover past or present life there, will we pretty much assume there's life on a large percentage of planets and bodies in space?
But really, there's a big deal where we supposedly don't know if there's life elsewhere. But once a government announces there was, we'll instantly assume it's everywhere, even frozen on asteroids. Won't that be the shortest duration zero to 100 discovery?
Back quite a few years ago they had a Radar altimeter map created of mars- It showed the Northern hemisphere as lower (Blue colors) and the southern hemisphere higher....The Southern hemisphere had thousands of meteor craters while the northern hemisphere is (Basically) smooth.....To me, it was VERY obvious that the northern (Smooth) hemisphere at one time was an OCEAN- That is what eroded and washed away the meteor craters in that northern hemisphere....But the scientists continue to state that it is only a possibility.
They have also found erosion benches at the same altitude around the "shores" of that supposed ocean...
Mars was like Earth is now, before Earth became like Earth is now. Mars, being a smaller planet, had a core that cooled and so it lost its protective magnetic field, and that led to the loss of the Martian atmosphere and oceans.
If microbial life evolved on Mars under Earth-like conditions and then went extinct, or even persists to this day below the surface, I don't think it would change the idea of extraterrestrial life as dramatically as sourmash is suggesting. If the microbes that lived (or continue to live) on Mars are not radically different than microbial life on Earth.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 02-18-2021).]
...it might succeed. Now, I have no doubt Mars had, and likely has, life on(within) it. In the future when they finally discover past or present life there, will we pretty much assume there's life on a large percentage of planets and bodies in space?
...it might succeed. Now, I have no doubt Mars had, and likely has, life on(within) it. In the future when they finally discover past or present life there, will we pretty much assume there's life on a large percentage of planets and bodies in space?
Statistically you could say that.. Two planets around a single star harboring life? One advanced, one likely primitive. What would be the odds of that? Apply that to the universe as a whole, and you would think life would be everywhere.
Or could our solar system still be a freak fluke? That happened potentially twice?
I believe there is life blooming all over the place in the universe. But things in the universe are spread so far apart, the chances of us ever finding, let alone contacting other life is extremely low.. Unless, again, we find it within our own solar system.
My favorite Cartoon! (That quote plays on another (Live action) TV show) Marvin's voice is the only one I can perfectly imitate.
And Jonesy, I believe that the only way you get a good >Livable< planet is with a super-size moon like ours; It keeps the inside of the planet molten longer (So outgasing to keep the atmosphere up)...but also it pulls off some of the atmosphere....Thereby keeping a good balance of gases....
For whatever my opinion is worth... I think mathematically it seems statistically implausible (like I really know what that math looks like) that Earth would be the only planet that's actually living.
Then again, it's not like the entire universe is easy to explain... lol... the whole concept of there being an infinite number of planets just boggles my mind anyway.
Finding life on another planet would be pretty exciting... no matter what that life looks like.
Human beings are generally very lazy, but we are driven by one thing... survival. When all our needs our met, all but a select few of us become complacent. It's only when we have a common goal that we work collectively. World domination is very passe', and I think we really need to be focusing on taking over the rest of the solar system before someone else does. Lol...
Mars was like Earth is now, before Earth became like Earth is now. Mars, being a smaller planet, had a core that cooled and so it lost its protective magnetic field, and that led to the loss of the Martian atmosphere and oceans.
If microbial life evolved on Mars under Earth-like conditions and then went extinct, or even persists to this day below the surface, I don't think it would change the idea of extraterrestrial life as dramatically as sourmash is suggesting. If the microbes that lived (or continue to live) on Mars are not radically different than microbial life on Earth.
Not being argumentative but what does a hot core have to do with gravity vrs a cool core? For example, the moon has gravity and compared to Earth it has a cool core. AND why would we think Mars has cooled or is cooled? How could asteroids have ice if a watered down planet requires a heated core to ................
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: I think we really need to be focusing on taking over the rest of the solar system before someone else does. Lol...
As a member of the collective, I have to inform you that resistance is futile.
Rams
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 02-18-2021).]
Originally posted by Rickady88GT: Not being argumentative but what does a hot core have to do with gravity vrs a cool core? For example, the moon has gravity and compared to Earth it has a cool core. AND why would we think Mars has cooled or is cooled? How could asteroids have ice if a watered down planet requires a heated core to ................
Not gravity, but magnetism.
The earth's magnetic field is electromagnetic energy that is created because the iron that surrounds the very center of the earth is hot enough to behave like a liquid, even though it is under immense pressure. This is the "outer core." It's liquid enough to rotate inside the earth, like a spinning top inside another rotating top (the earth) and that creates the earth's magnetic field.
The earth's magnetic field blunts the force of the solar wind, which is that constant stream of charged particles that "blows" outwards in every direction from the sun.
Without the earth's magnetic field, the solar wind would ionize the molecules of gas in the earth's upper atmosphere and cause it to escape the earth's gravity and leak away from the earth. Atmospheric erosion. Eventually the earth's atmosphere would be reduced to the very rarefied atmosphere of Mars and earth's oceans would also evaporate to a large extent, and what didn't evaporate would be locked up in mega-sized polar ice caps.
That's what happened to Mars. Because Mars is a smaller planet, its iron core cooled all the way down to the point where it became solid and stopped producing a magnetic field. That's the gist of it.
I won't say that this explanation is "spot on" but reasonably close.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 02-18-2021).]
If someone actually wanted to, they could compare my explanation (previous message) to the explanation that was published in the always excellent Ars Technica.
I could be wrong but I think the Perseverance Rover is the first interplanetary mission to carry a Helicopter . The Rover can take stereo images so between that and the Helicopter videos it should produce tons of interesting content for us Earthlings.
I could be wrong but I think the Perseverance Rover is the first interplanetary mission to carry a Helicopter . The Rover can take stereo images so between that and the Helicopter videos it should produce tons of interesting content for us Earthlings.
Heard the same thing on the news today about the AI controlled copter. Pretty cool especially since Mars atmosphere is supposedly 1% of earth pressure density.
The Copter thing is cool- But years ago someone came up with a crazy but neat idea- I thought it was genius; A balloon that has a Sensor "Snake"....It would drift on the wind during the day, but when the sun went down the balloon was designed so that the gas would contract a bit and "Land" the snake....The next morning when the sun warmed the balloon it would take flight and drift to a new spot. Basically it would examine random spots- possibly leading to amazing discoveries.
What I really liked about this is that some of the most important discoveries were via "Serendipity"; Looking for one thing but finding out something completely un-related to your original search.....
I also wish they would put a lander down in Hellas Planitia; It has the lowest point of land and also the possibility of "Hiding" some of that land from direct solar exposure (UV radiation)....So high air pressure and no sterilizing UV. Might be the most logical spot for life surviving on Mars.
Hellas Planitia is a gigantic crater in the southern hemisphere of Mars; 1400 Miles in diameter, 23,465 feet below average surface elevation of Mars surface
Rover safely landed and they are now getting some cool black and white pics. Supposedly, the microphones listening are only picking up something that sounds like "Elton John's Rocket Man.
Will see what they show,...of. course I do not subscribe to the most common interpretations of events and data. Just pure unaltered pictures and hopefully sound. THAT is a cool idea and I hope it works.
Where is the forum justice warrior who can post a picture of a Fiero on Mars ? It exists somewhere in the archives.
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg: Mars was like Earth is now, before Earth became like Earth is now. Mars, being a smaller planet, had a core that cooled and so it lost its protective magnetic field, and that led to the loss of the Martian atmosphere and oceans.
Wow !
Before Earth became like Earth is now. Mars cooled ? Lack of global warming ?
Mars indeed, although it could be remarked that those photos are from the Mars Curiosity mission, which landed on Mars on August 6, 2012.
What just landed is the Mars Perseverance mission.
While true, (based on my limited search) NASA hasn't released much in the way of Perseverance photos. Most of what's shown from Perseverance are artist's conceptions and illustrations. Only a few Perseverance photos are out there now. I thought what I posted was much more enlightening based on what's available but, you can feel free to correct me as you wish. I know you get a kick out of that.
Rams
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 02-24-2021).]
Mars indeed, although it could be remarked that those photos are from the Mars Curiosity mission, which landed on Mars on August 6, 2012.
What just landed is the Mars Perseverance mission.
What? Did they build a new WalMart up there since the last mission? It's Mars. It's rocks. Red rocks. Kind of like Sedona, but without the wealthy neo-hippies.
Where is the forum justice warrior who can post a picture of a Fiero on Mars ? It exists somewhere in the archives.
I don't think so. IIRC, there was a thread several years back about it wherein CliffP said that photo and the original thread was lost during a rare glitch in one of the server updates or archiving.
IF it exists, it will be in 'archive' of GFC, which is where the original discussion took place.
Originally posted by rinselberg: Mars indeed, although it could be remarked that those photos are from the Mars Curiosity mission, which landed on Mars on August 6, 2012.
What just landed is the Mars Perseverance mission.
I'd like to correct the record. The message (quoted immediately above) where I distinguished between the Mars Curiosity and Mars Perseverance missions was not a correction. It was an add-on or a "supplemental."
Scrolling back to message #11 there was a "discussion within a discussion" about why Mars has become mostly an arid desert, with its remaining water almost entirely sequestered in polar ice caps and as a barely detectable trace of water vapor in the scant Martian atmosphere.
The commonly accepted explanation has been that Mars once had a lot of water, but most of the water molecules were splintered into hydrogen and oxygen atoms by the energy of the solar wind and so bled away into outer space.
A newly published research paper, however, posits that much of the water that Mars once had--perhaps even as much of 99 percent of it--is still there. The water has become chemically bound and so "locked up" within Martian rocks, trapped within the chemistry of minerals and salt compounds.
If you don't frequent the New York Times online, you can probably view this article as a "freebie":
"The Water on Mars Vanished. This Might Be Where It Went."
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Mars once had rivers, lakes and seas. Although the planet is now desert dry, scientists say most of the water is still there, just locked up in rocks.
The research paper itself, is, as you'd expect, somewhat "drier" reading, but it's freely available online in all of its glory. Here's the Abstract paragraph:
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Geological evidence shows that ancient Mars had large volumes of liquid water. Models of past hydrogen escape to space, calibrated with observations of the current escape rate, cannot explain the present-day D/H [Deuterium/Hydrogen] isotope ratio. We simulate volcanic degassing, atmospheric escape, and crustal hydration on Mars, incorporating observational constraints from spacecraft, rovers and meteorites. We find ancient water volumes equivalent to a 100- to 1500-meter global layer are simultaneously compatible with the geological evidence, loss rate estimates, and D/H measurements. In our model, the volume of water participating in the hydrological cycle decreased by 40 to 95% over the Noachian period (~3.7 to 4.1 billion years ago), reaching present-day values by ~3.0 billion years ago. Between 30 and 99% of Martian water was sequestered by crustal hydration, demonstrating that irreversible chemical weathering can increase the aridity of terrestrial planets.
I would not expect to find 'life' on "a large percent of planets and bodies in space'. Space is just too hostile a place for most of the bodies to support any kind of life as we currently recognize life. OTOH, I don't for a minute believe that Earth is the only place where life exists in the universe.
Mars Perseverance Sol 26: Left Mastcam-Z Camera NASA's Mars Perseverance rover acquired this image using its Left Mastcam-Z camera. Mastcam-Z is a pair of cameras located high on the rover's mast.
This image was acquired on Mar. 18, 2021 (Sol 26) at the local mean solar time of 11:39:31.
Originally posted by maryjane: I would not expect to find 'life' on "a large percent of planets and bodies in space'. Space is just too hostile a place for most of the bodies to support any kind of life as we currently recognize life. OTOH, I don't for a minute believe that Earth is the only place where life exists in the universe.
There's speculation about the possibility of microbial or other primitive life on Enceladus, one of the many moons that orbit Saturn. It's billed on the NASA website as "The Ocean Moon." https://solarsystem.nasa.go...i/science/enceladus/
Titan comes up in these discussions. Saturn's largest moon, with an earth-like terrain and lakes of liquid methane. I think they say it "snows" frozen methane. It's got a thick, methane-rich atmosphere.
I remember a NASA scientist speculating that there could be single-celled organisms living in these methane lakes. He said the cells would be very large--like sheets of letter-size stationary. That's because in these very cold temperatures the chemical reactions of cellular metabolism would be running in "slow motion." The cells would have to be very large in area to compensate.
Saw that on TV some years ago.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 03-21-2021).]
