Police used a stun gun on an Ohio woman and forcibly removed her from a middle school football game on Wednesday evening after she refused to wear a face mask, NBC News reports.
A video of the incident, which garnered over 440,000 views on Facebook, shows school resource officer Chris Smith in a heated exchange with a fan in the stands of Logan High School Stadium.
Smith reportedly asked the woman, later identified as Alecia Kitts, to wear a face mask, but she refused claiming she has asthma, according to a statement from the Logan Police Department. After refusing to put her hands behind her back, the officer can be seen using a stun gun on her and then handcuffing her, before escorting her out of the arena.
All I'm gonna say is, for a woman with asthma, she seemed to have a great set of lungs.
These are the same guys who stand back and DO NOTHING with their hands in their pockets when "protesters" destroy neighborhoods.
Or dopers. But just watch how fast they get in your face for free speech or wrongthink. Same people who used to be called "bullies" in grade school, all grown up with a clown suit, taser and glock.
Wait, you guys are blaming the LEO? That surprises me.
The woman refused to follow the rules, she was asked politely several times. It only got physical after she refused to leave because she refused to mask up as required or leave. I thought the LEO showed great restraint. Oh well, I guess that's what makes the world go round. I think she's lucky she didn't end up in jail. I don't like masking up either but, if that's what is required to attend the game or, go into a store, I mask up if I want to be there.
I'm also not buying the asthma claim. She was definitely not suffering from asthma at that point.
I haven't seen that particular towns by-law, but they are all pretty much the same. All of 'em have a list of exemptions from wearing the mask. LEO)'s (as much as they think the contrary) do NOT have the power or authority to decide if those exemptions are valid or not.
It's a hot button issue for me, since I do have a medical exemption. The way it works is the cops can ASK....ONCE...and when I say "medical exemption" The ONLY thing they do is say "have a nice day" and walk away. Asking about the reasons for the exemption is illegal and a rights violation under a whole PILE of laws. Same for trying to force the mask or issue, and past that it goes to criminal code (same as felony) assault for the forceful arrest.
In that video, its the cop thats the criminal. NOT the medical exemption.
Wait, you guys are blaming the LEO? That surprises me.
The woman refused to follow the rules, she was asked politely several times. It only got physical after she refused to leave because she refused to mask up as required or leave. I thought the LEO showed great restraint. Oh well, I guess that's what makes the world go round. I think she's lucky she didn't end up in jail. I don't like masking up either but, if that's what is required to attend the game or, go into a store, I mask up if I want to be there.
I'm also not buying the asthma claim. She was definitely not suffering from asthma at that point.
Rams
The videos that I have seen start with a woman sitting on a bench, who is then accosted by a man in uniform. This is very different from an accused rapist who is violently resisting arrest.
In my opinion, not wearing a mask is a lot closer to driving over the speed limit than it is to rape. The punishment does not fit the crime. If not wearing a mask is a crime, fine the offender, write her a ticket. Do not treat her like she just shot someone.
Hmm I guess that is key isnt it. The thing is... who decides, and when, and do they taze a person who does? Also asthma isnt the only legit reason.
I have a friend who refuses to wear a mask. If someone forces the issue, he says, "I have a medical condition." If they press farther, he informs them that they are violating HIPAA laws. He has only had trouble at one location, a Harley Davidson dealership who ask him to leave. They will not get any business from any of us.
Unfortunately, there seems to be an attitude with a number of officers that basically sez “Obey my orders or all bets (rights?) are off.”
I think they sometimes take it personal & react personally, and then don’t know how to “back it down” and still retain control (preserve authority?) of the situation.
Tougher training in human nature is required. Hostage Negotiators know that well.
What (it appears) some aren't recognizing is what she was charged with. Her refusal to mask up is what prompted her to be told to leave. She refused and was charged with trespassing. Anyone instructed to leave from that field or your or my property could be arrested if, they are not welcome regardless of the reason they are not welcomed. If, the trespasser refuses to leave, the LEO was justified in removing her from the premises. Pretty straight forward in my opinon.
It really doesn't matter if I (or you) agree with the Governor's directive, trespassing is against the law. Once you're told to leave, it's time to get off yer arse and go.
quote
Originally posted by 2.5: Hmm I guess that is key isnt it. The thing is... who decides, and when, and do they taze a person who does? Also asthma isnt the only legit reason.
I honestly don't know what (if any exemptions may exist in that state but, if it is known (or you are informed) a mask is required to be there and no exemption exists, it's time to pack it up IMHO. As I was once told, no one is above the law.
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Originally posted by williegoat:
I have a friend who refuses to wear a mask. If someone forces the issue, he says, "I have a medical condition." If they press farther, he informs them that they are violating HIPAA laws. He has only had trouble at one location, a Harley Davidson dealership who ask him to leave. They will not get any business from any of us.
And that Sir is something that I completely support. Your decision as to where to spend your money is exactly that, your decision. Just as that lady has the right to not attend any more games at that stadium. This assumes she will be allowed back.
Rams
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 09-25-2020).]
I cant say for Ohio (or that particular stadium)...but at least here there are a LOT of "what if's" attached to that trespassing idea. ASSUMING a publicly-funded (taxpayer) facility like a high-school football field, then NO they can NOT eject you for standing on your legal rights. They can try, and the cops might remove you, but your very 1st phone call is to the Human Right Commission (discrimination against a disability) and the facility operator is writing you a 5-6 figure cheque for your troubles, with the cops doing the same thing for their actions. Even public-private places (such as stores) are skating on very-very thin ice trying that "trespassing" trick over a medical/disability rights issue.
The ONLY place it holds any water is your personal PRIVATE property, and even then its risky. (Think of ejecting someone because they are black have COPD to get a picture of what happens)
I have a friend who refuses to wear a mask. If someone forces the issue, he says, "I have a medical condition."
If they press farther, he informs them that they are violating HIPAA laws. He has only had trouble at one location, a Harley Davidson dealership who ask him to leave. They will not get any business from any of us.
1. Does he? Is it a “breathing” condition? Full-face helmet? Does 60mph wind/bugs/dust/pollen in the face from riding affect his breathing?
2. “Violating HIPAA laws” must have a means of filling out a complaint against a business other then the angry complaintant informing the business owner that “they’re breaking the law!” is good enough.
3. I would rather be alive then give-in to some half-azzed threats from some old hard-azz who thinks he has a point to prove.
The truth is, I have seen this “HIPAA” excuse being completely misused to the point of printing up phony cards by “good” people who have no problem LYING about having a handicap...
I feel the same way about those that play the “Service Animal” game, claiming they have the right to bring their Cave-Bat everywhere for “emotional support”.
I cant say for Ohio (or that particular stadium)...but at least here there are a LOT of "what if's" attached to that trespassing idea. ASSUMING a publicly-funded (taxpayer) facility like a high-school football field, then NO they can NOT eject you for standing on your legal rights. They can try, and the cops might remove you, but your very 1st phone call is to the Human Right Commission (discrimination against a disability) and the facility operator is writing you a 5-6 figure cheque for your troubles, with the cops doing the same thing for their actions. Even public-private places (such as stores) are skating on very-very thin ice trying that "trespassing" trick over a medical/disability rights issue.
The ONLY place it holds any water is your personal PRIVATE property, and even then its risky. (Think of ejecting someone because they are black have COPD to get a picture of what happens)
MEM, I don't know about Canadian laws but, this ain't Canada. Although the public or taxpayers own the property, the school board or it's representative can have someone removed for numerous reasons.
I feel the same way about those that play the “Service Animal” game, claiming they have the right to bring their Cave-Bat everywhere for “emotional support”.
Hey! Let's leave my Cave Bat out of this, Fred has feelings to ya know....
MEM, I don't know about Canadian laws but, this ain't Canada. Although the public or taxpayers own the property, the school board or it's representative can have someone removed for numerous reasons.
Rams
Oh, anyone can have anyone removed for any number of reasons in any number of ways......but what's it gonna cost ya ?
I carry a mask in my pocket and wear it when I have to, because, as the saying goes, "That is not the hill I want to die on".
However, as I said in this thread, I have just about had enough. A couple of weeks has grown into seven months with no end in sight. Something is going to have to change, real soon.
What surprised me the most about the incident was how much trouble this big burly guy had trying to get cuffs on a woman half his size.
While it does appear that way, he's a minority LEO, Male. Touch her in the wrong way or spot and all of a sudden there's another accusation and problem. I don't blame him a bit for tasering her, I would not have blamed him if he had tasered her a few more times to "earn" her cooperation. Today's LEOs have a lot on their plates and people are just looking for opportunities to sue.
And here I'm thinking everyone else should have took their mask off and told the officer and school to f off. Until more people do as this lady did, this crap is going to continue.
And here I'm thinking everyone else should have took their mask off and told the officer and school to f off. Until more people do as this lady did, this crap is going to continue.
(Sarcasm)...Clearly all 10 people in the stands, spread out over 100ft, were in grave danger.
This wasn't some packed house event with hundreds of people. This is where officer discretion comes in. Survey the situation and decide if she is harming anyone around her.
[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 09-25-2020).]
This is where officer discretion comes in. Survey the situation and decide if she is harming anyone around her.
I don't think this guy was hired to evaluate the situation. Private security is no doubt hired to enforce the rules at the event. I don't know who might've set the "mask" rules there for the stadium (whether it was the school or the jurisdiction), but if the rules were made known to those who were entering the grounds, then that woman hasn't got a leg to stand on. Judging from her demeanor, I suspect this wasn't the first time she's raised a fuss.
I agree though, with the sparse number of people in those outdoor stands, it hardly seemed necessary for everyone to be wearing a mask. However, if they weren't wearing masks while sitting/watching, would they bother putting one on when headed for the exits at the end of the game? Probably not, and that's when people would be in closer quarters.
Sorry man, I'm a little distracted right now. Kim and her sis (different city closer to Toronto) have been bouncing phone calls, and it seems the panic buying has started here right now. TP, kleenex, womans pads and paper towels are out. And the basics. (Rice/pasta/beans)...we were shopping earlier and no problems here, then on top of that my BIL in Nova Scotia just found out he has a tumor on the spine....and a niece that has gotten into the drugs.
Life went from 0-120 in about 2 hours....I should be used to it by now. I've handled worse.
They will settle with her in order to mitigate their potential costs.
Laws are made by representatives elected by the people and Constitutionally authorized to make laws after prescribed deliberation and process.
Laws are NOT made by fiat on the whim of unelected "health officials" or by executive branch officials such as Governors.
Those officials do have powers to enact certain measures in times of emergencies but those powers are limited in both scope and duration and in no case create new laws.
I will be surprised if the woman is ever officially charged by a prosecutor with a "crime", even with trespass.
She does likely have plenty of standing to bring a nice big civil lawsuit against the municipality, and possibly the state of Ohio.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 09-25-2020).]
(Sarcasm)...Clearly all 10 people in the stands, spread out over 100ft, were in grave danger.
This wasn't some packed house event with hundreds of people. This is where officer discretion comes in. Survey the situation and decide if she is harming anyone around her.
Your decision as to where to spend your money is exactly that, your decision. Just as that lady has the right to not attend any more games at that stadium. This assumes she will be allowed back. 
