I tend to agree about interstellar travel. Even if we do figure out a way to travel long distances quickly and safely, we'll probably still be limited to stars in our immediate vicinity. So IMO the idea of "galactic empires" is fantasy. Our best bet would be to use autonomous vehicles with AI smart enough get out of its own way.
I tend to agree about interstellar travel. Even if we do figure out a way to travel long distances quickly and safely, we'll probably still be limited to stars in our immediate vicinity. So IMO the idea of "galactic empires" is fantasy. Our best bet would be to use autonomous vehicles with AI smart enough get out of its own way.
You are probably right, but then the question is "why" send anything out? Unless we can mine something out there, there is no good reason to do it.
Given enough time, we will get there or they will come to us, but it will likely be by some means that we have not yet even imagined. When Columbus crossed the Atlantic, no one would have dreamed of jet airliners or nuclear powered submarines making the same trip on a routine basis.
Given enough time, we will get there or they will come to us, but it will likely be by some means that we have not yet even imagined. When Columbus crossed the Atlantic, no one would have dreamed of jet airliners or nuclear powered submarines making the same trip on a routine basis.
This is all true, but I can't help laughing at the notions of space travel by short cuts like wormholes and such. It is true that given enough time an AMAZING new technology will come out, but travel will always be done the hard way, no time warps and wormholes.
Living in space long term is currently not possible even just orbiting the Earth. We can't just keep eating our own crap and drinking urine. Generations in space will require a life style of absolute zero waste or trash. Literally EVERYTHING will have to be used over and over and over. The air, the water the food, shower water (if water is even used) hygiene products, ALL somehow reused infinitely. The space craft will need some type of ecosystem and that would mean no babies being born on board. They have different needs and would overburden the "bio-load" on the ecosystem and supplies. It is unimaginable to expect to live 50 years and bring along enough MRE's for the trip and just tossing out garbage along the way. Just another reason space travel can't work. We just can't pull over at a rest stop and stock up as we gas up. We certainly can't expect to find a planet and land on it and recolonize as if we can just live anywhere. Landing on a planet will require a type of craft capable of entering the atmosphere and hopefully launch from the planet back to the main craft. Otherwise to land would mean scuttling the main space craft. Just more stuff to pack up and bring along. The Earth's atmosphere is VERY specific and special, finding an exact duplicate is unlikely, and bringing an environment with us (permanent life in a space suit) is impractical.
[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 03-20-2019).]
Negative, it is unrealistic at our current technology level but, if we continue at half the pace we have developed technology over the last hundred years, we have no idea as to how far we may progress. While being some pragmatic, I am also hopeful for the future. Edited: I honestly believe we are only limited by our own imaginations.
Rams
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 03-20-2019).]
Negative, it is unrealistic at our current technology level but, if we continue at half the pace we have developed technology over the last hundred years, we have no idea as to how far we may progress. While being some pragmatic, I am also hopeful for the future. Edited: I honestly believe we are only limited by our own imaginations.
I suspect our knowledge of physics, as applied to time/space is akin to a Neanderthal man and a round stone.
You may be right. I remember in school an auto shop teacher saying that internal combustion engines are inefficient. And then went on to explain heat loss and friction and whatnot. I got offended at such blasphemy. LOL As we mature and learn and understand, the World changes and gets smaller.
More discussion here than I was expecting. I like that. I am back to add to what I was saying on Page One of this thread.
Behold, the Sprite. It's a 1.5-inch square circuit board. This photograph has been turned into a diagram, with all of the major components marked and identified.
CLICK FOR FULL SIZE
NASA uses "ChipSat" as a generic term for this kind of thing. "ChipSat" or "femtosatellite"--another word for it.
quote
Small satellites launched from space are used for a wide variety of tasks. But truly tiny satellites called ChipSats, which integrate power, computing, sensing and communication equipment onto a 3.5-centimeter-square circuit board, open up new possibilities for exploration around Earth, asteroids and other planets. The KickSat-2 mission tests 100 Sprite ChipSats demonstrating that tiny, massively distributed satellites using commercial off-the-shelf technology can work in space.
The KickSat-2 mission has launched. But I don't know whether the 100 or so Sprite miniature satellites have actually been deployed. The most recent report that I was able to find online has me puzzled about it. The FCC had some objections to the Sprites being deployed. This is part of the report that I found:
quote
KickSat-2 is scheduled to deploy up to 104 tiny Sprite satellites into low Earth orbit. The Sprites then would transmit on 437.240 MHz at 10 mW, communicating with each other via a mesh network and with command stations on Earth. The Sprites, which are less than 2 square inches, are expected to reenter Earth’s atmosphere within weeks. . . . NASA calls KickSat-2 a technology demonstration mission... . . . The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) recently imposed a $900,000 penalty on a commercial concern, Swarm Technologies, for launching similar tiny satellites after the FCC had denied permission. . . . Manchester is reported to be developing a plan to deploy a group of small satellites to survey the sky in the LF radio range, something that cannot be done from the ground owing to the ionosphere.
Oh Ye of little faith. We have only begun to scratch the surface of what is still unknown and understood. If we can keep from destroying ourselves, our future is beyond our own understanding.
Oh Ye of little faith. We have only begun to scratch the surface of what is still unknown and understood. If we can keep from destroying ourselves, our future is beyond our own understanding.
Rams.
Truth, our future will not be made by those walking the street today, but those that sit in a room with buzzing lights and shaking their heads. They want off this rock more than anyone on this board.
Truth, our future will not be made by those walking the street today, but those that sit in a room with buzzing lights and shaking their heads. They want off this rock more than anyone on this board.
I’m still shocked at how rudimentalary we went to the moon! And made it back!
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 03-21-2019).]
I’m still shocked at how rudimentalary we went to the moon! And made it back!
The crafts used back then were practically death traps. VERY primitive for even what they have done. Now days to go back to the moon and do the same thing would be much more expensive, almost like redesigning the wheel. But with private composition, the mission may happen sooner than back then? They may even take paying customers.
The crafts used back then were practically death traps. VERY primitive for even what they have done. Now days to go back to the moon and do the same thing would be much more expensive, almost like redesigning the wheel. But with private composition, the mission may happen sooner than back then? They may even take paying customers.
Rocket Check Comadore 64 Check AM radio Check Almost air tight coach Check Reusable seats Check
Its funny we walk around all day with more computing power and access and what do we do with it?
"Back by popular demand"... I am still kind of surprised that my opening bid (so to speak) has led to some 60 subsequent messages, although it must be said that it's not been a laser-like focus on the Original Topic, which derives from a scientific report from researcher David Kipping at the Department of Astronomy at Columbia University, "The Halo Drive: Fuel-Free Relativistic Propulsion of Large Masses Via Recycled Boomerang Photons." But it's all good.
Today I come before you again to notify this long-running and highly esteemed online discussion forum of a quality report on this topic from the March 18 edition of MIT Technology Review:
A “halo drive” could accelerate interstellar spacecraft to close to the speed of light "Borrowing energy from black holes would offer a highly efficient way to navigate our galaxy." March 18, 2019, for MIT Technology Review. https://www.technologyrevie...-the-speed-of-light/
Here are the highlights from this brief, general audience or "lay" reader level report.
"Breakthrough Starshot." $100 million project to develop and demonstrate technologies to send small, unmanned space probes to a nearby star system.
The pros and cons of Light Sail propulsion across interstellar space using powerful, earth-based lasers.
The "Halo" propulsion alternative, described with several paragraphs and a diagram.
The "Halo" concept implies the possibility of decelerating spacecraft. Halo in reverse. So, a "brake" system to go with the "gas pedal."
A link between the "Halo" concept and the (general) Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence or "SETI."
I'd like to expand, in a very small way, on that last bullet point, about a possible link with the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence or "SETI."
This report in MIT Technology Review does not mention neutron stars, but pairs of binary black-hole systems, where two black holes, very close to one another compared to the distances of interstellar space, are gravitationally locked and persistently orbiting around a intermediate center point. It's estimated that there are about 10 billion such black hole binaries across the entire expanse of "our" Milky Way galaxy. Black hole binaries go "one better" than isolated black holes for the "Halo" propulsion concept.
Postulate one or more extraterrestrial intelligences that are already using the "Halo" concept to send space probes across the interstellar distances of the Milky Way galaxy.
This, from the already-referenced report:
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The Milky Way contains around 10 billion binary black-hole systems. But Kipping points out that there are likely to be just a limited number of trajectories that link them together, so these interstellar highways are likely to be valuable regions.
I'm not sure what Kipping is getting at with "just a limited number of trajectories that link them together", but the suggestion is that the Halo concept offers some clues about how "we" could search for evidence of Extraterrestrial Intelligence(s).
One idea would be for astronomers to scrutinize the black hole binary systems that are already known and observable with high precision telescopes. If some Intelligence has been Halo-ing across the galaxy, the energy that has been removed from (or added to) a black hole binary could (in theory) be identified as an unnatural anomaly in the way that the two black holes are orbiting.
Energy, removed from the black hole binary by Halo-acceleration, or added to the black hole binary by Halo-deceleration.
Obviously, a "long shot", but that is characteristic of all the ideas that have so far been pursued to any extent as SETI projects. Which I think are almost entirely based on Radio Astronomy and the search for extraterrestrial radio signals that (would) have no scientific explanation, other than an Intelligence.
Thank you for hosting me today on your video monitor or mobile device.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 03-29-2019).]
