Now, let me ask you: If the press is not free to report the truth as they see it, why do you expect that we should believe the "facts" that you use to support your positions?
[This message has been edited by williegoat (edited 02-19-2019).]
"I will ignore the facts because I do not agree with them."
Unedited quote.
Nor is this a phrase I have written or spoke.
*Not throwing up rules or fear, just clarifying that I did not say this. Anywhere. I just don't get the leftist lies needed to slander another forum member? Huh?
.....the percentage of people who are happy in America is far lower because our system mistreats so many people that are not you.
You are thinking of this as a "I want to make you unhappy and me happy", no, I want to make everyone happy, educated, and able to work at a living wage.
Where did you get the childish idea that it is somehow the government's responsibility or any individual citizen's responsibility or obligation to make you, or anyone else, "happy"?
Its fueling a fire that will burn both side equally as much but in the end it wont be Socialism that rebuilds. When it gets to the point you have nothing left you want to give up you will be all for having walls.
Regarding walls, with socialism in the end the walls are there to keep you in.
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 02-20-2019).]
Just insert whichever "oppressed group" you would like to put in the "game".
Did anyone flinch a little when he said "the jews"? Maybe because our awareness of what Germany did? We should flinch just as much when our news today talks about different "groups", and blaming different groups.
This is an interesting conversatiosn about the whole mess happening today.
From 35 min mark, a description of the way some of the identity group activists today think, and why its so hard to communicate with them.
Many actually believe science, evidence, and reason aren't legitimate. Also they see conversation as something where they can only lose ground, so why do it.
Its the indoctrination of kids through the schools and media, even entertainment. Indoctrination of adults by twisting of news reports and fake news, and entertainment that they are winning. Social laws, pushing the stuff in the workplace, etc. Conversation, truth, studies from science, reason, history, these are their enemies and not to be acknowledged.
Where did you get the childish idea that it is somehow the government's responsibility or any individual citizen's responsibility or obligation to make you, or anyone else, "happy"?
That is a common misconception or purposeful misdirection of the left. Whether intentionally or because of a lack of knowledge, some confuse the Constitution with the Declaration of Independence, specifically the following:
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness”
That all men are created equal, is a self evident truth. As stated previously, this phrase refers only to creation, nothing more.
The pursuit of happiness is a God given right. Happiness is not.
The left would have us believe that happiness and equality are guaranteed in the Constitution, and that the right to keep and bear arms and to the free exercise of religion are not.
Anyone brainwashed by anecdotal evidence of America's success should think otherwise.
Looking at happiness, life expectancy, HDI, freedom of the press, education, corruption levels...basically ANY measurable facts about life in nordic countries compared to America it is objectively a better society. And its not just oil rich Norway, Finland is easily included there as well.
Hi Threedog, as a near failed student threw high school, I think I fit a model of American exceptionalism. Even making a small income (less than half of the median income for the area(age29) at 24 I had seen my path to prosperity, by 29 I could see my path to my one million dollars by 50 years old. Step one, I had a goal.
"Social mobility in this country does not exist in the way you discuss it. Right now, it is simply not possible for the majority of people to make more money than their parents in this country." You say majority can not but, I am about to reach above my parents net worth and my sister is above. I now make more as an hourly wage than my Dad did before he retired. My Dad was very smart and college educated. Thank you for calling us an exceptional minority.
I see it everyday, the young people that I work with. I talk to them, some take my advice other come up with their own plan, or already had an idea and started implementing it with my encouragement. If you need someone to help, someone nearby is going to be better. I suggest finding a local Dave Ramsey group. Nobody is the smartest, the more people to look at a problem the better.
Now, let me ask you: If the press is not free to report the truth as they see it, why do you expect that we should believe the "facts" that you use to support your positions?
This does nothing to prove overall happiness.
For those using anecdotal evidence, or just evidence of yourselves making it, that doesn't mean we have social mobility. The vast majority of people can't move up within our system, it only allows a very small number. Looking at the data I posted, it shows that social mobility is far more prevalent in these countries with "socialist" policies. It is fact that social welfare helps improve chances of social mobility.
We are graduating more people from college than at any time in history. We have more jobs available, and the lowest unemployment than at any other time in history. Our small business environment is the best ever.
Opportunities are everywhere you look.
People just need to get off of the sofa, turn of the video games and go for it.
Success requires smarts, hard work and planning.
[This message has been edited by olejoedad (edited 02-21-2019).]
Now, let me ask you: If the press is not free to report the truth as they see it, why do you expect that we should believe the "facts" that you use to support your positions?
Followed by:
quote
Originally posted by Threedog: This does nothing to prove overall happiness.
For those using anecdotal evidence, or just evidence of yourselves making it, that doesn't mean we have social mobility. The vast majority of people can't move up within our system, it only allows a very small number. Looking at the data I posted, it shows that social mobility is far more prevalent in these countries with "socialist" policies. It is fact that social welfare helps improve chances of social mobility.
Originally posted by Threedog: This does nothing to prove overall happiness.
For those using anecdotal evidence, or just evidence of yourselves making it, that doesn't mean we have social mobility. The vast majority of people can't move up within our system, it only allows a very small number. Looking at the data I posted, it shows that social mobility is far more prevalent in these countries with "socialist" policies. It is fact that social welfare helps improve chances of social mobility. Click to show
[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 02-21-2019).]
For those using anecdotal evidence, or just evidence of yourselves making it, that doesn't mean we have social mobility. The vast majority of people can't move up within our system, it only allows a very small number. Looking at the data I posted, it shows that social mobility is far more prevalent in these countries with "socialist" policies. It is fact that social welfare helps improve chances of social mobility.
Apparently, the big issue is no longer that Americans are evil, greedy racists. We are now faced with the fact that some Americans are not happy. This is certainly an improvement. Thank you, President Trump, for another job well done.
I believe Threedog really believes what he is saying. The point though I do not understand. If he thinks we should do all the things the videos I posted show are ludicrous?
I believe Threedog really believes what he is saying. The point though I do not understand. If he thinks we should do all the things the videos I posted show are ludicrous?
Threedog believes that you and I make others unhappy. That is what I have been able to gather from his posts.
You provide them with food, Tony provides them with shelter, I have taught them to earn a living. What more can one ask?
Why would I respond to that question? Its a loaded question.
To say that you cant trust any media because it is all biased is the tactic of dictatorial regimes. The sources I use have decades of repeatable reporting/data gathering. They provide sources, methods, and they have journalistic integrity. Also, you cant say "post hoc ergo propter hoc" then try to credit Trump with solving racism(which is insane, because we do not live in a post-racial society). You are correct that correlation data does not always prove causation, but when you have an overwhelming amout of data that shows correlation and you don't have better data(which you don't, personal experience is useless in this discussion) for the other side, then you are not disproving the link.
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:
Welfare systems kill motivation and promote dependence.
You have no proof. These are just beliefs that you want to believe because it is what you have been told.
Threedog, I really don't like quoting myself, but would like to see your economic plan and how you would restructure our economy, our taxation, our whole system in an effort to make everyone happy.
quote
Originally posted by blackrams:
Threedog, Please enlighten those of us who have not seen the light on just how your economic plan would work so that everybody would be happy. The very concept leads me to believe there would be no unemployed, no low wage jobs for unskilled workers, free education, free wifi nationwide, free medical care, a TV in every living room and a chicken in every pot, almost Utopia.
Please enlighten us on how you're gonna pull this off and not reduce this country to Third World status. Leftist, Progressives/Socialist always have grand ideas how those who have earned less can bennefit by taking from those who have earned more. Go ahead, I am interested in how you're going to do this. Please don't tell me you want to follow the path some other country did that has very little in common with how our economy is set up and runs. Or do you purpose to blow it all up and start over.
Rams
I've work since I was 12 years old for someone other than my Dad. Everything I possess has been paid for through my and my wife's efforts. It does not make me happy to see my tax dollars to go to "less happy" people in the form of EBT cards (as an example) so they don't have to earn anything. All the while knowing I can go to many and buy their EBT card for fifty cents on the dollar. They then spend that money on things other than their kids. So, how are ya gonna make me happy?
This Utopia you seek does not exist. There always will be unhappy people who haven't figured out they need to do something for themselves and quit depending on the government and other people to pull their weight. You go ahead and donate your earnings to the unhappy people and leave mine alone. OK....
Rams
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 02-21-2019).]
Originally posted by Threedog: To say that you cant trust any media because it is all biased is the tactic of dictatorial regimes.
You are wrong. Dictatorial regimes, by their very nature, control the media and declare them as the only trustworthy source.
quote
The sources I use have decades of repeatable reporting/data gathering.
As do Pravda and The National Inquirer.
quote
Also, you cant say "post hoc ergo propter hoc" then try to credit Trump with solving racism(which is insane, because we do not live in a post-racial society).
When I was young, I was very liberal, and scoffed at my elders for their conservative beliefs. As I aged, and observed the world around me (not only immediately around me, but on a national and international scale) my political and societal views matured, and I found more truth and reason in the conservative views that I had previously rejected. No one, I repeat no one, tells me what to believe and what I should think. I have had a life long love for current events, politics and interactions between people as individuals, people as groups, and people as nations. I have been fortunate to have lived in other countries, and still have friends from other lands.
My views are based on experience, education, observation, a deep respect for the mistakes made in the past by those that came before us, and knowledge gained by my own mistakes.
If I reject 'data and expert opinion', it is not due to the influence of current punditry, but based upon my own knowledge base and intellect.
[This message has been edited by olejoedad (edited 02-21-2019).]
The fact is, threedog, that you have a closed mind. Most of your sources are biased and have a particular agenda. You are not worth the minimal effort it would take to provide evidence, because you have shown, time and again, that you ignore anything that might cause you to step out of your comfort zone.
You live in a very small, cloistered society. Open a window and look out at the rest of the world. Open the door and go for a walk. Talk to some people who are not exactly like you. You just might learn something.
Threedog, I really don't like quoting myself, but would like to see your economic plan and how you would restructure our economy, our taxation, our whole system in an effort to make everyone happy.
I would point to universal healthcare that has not tanked the economies of European countries or Japan or Korea or Canada.
I would point to taxation polices that work in Scandinavian and European countries that have not turned them into third world hell holes.
I would point to the utter lack of exodus of the super rich from countries that have progressive, strict taxation polices that heavily tax the rich.
I would point(as I have in this thread) to the increased social mobility in these economies, where poor people actually have a fair shot at getting rich.
I would point to many states in this country that have passed many liberal/leftist laws with large social safety nets and have seen increased social mobility and stronger economies. We like to think that America's super-capitalistic attitude is what allowed America to thrive during the second half of the twentieth centuries. However we forget that just about every other country that could rival us economically had been invaded, split, or bombed to complete and utter ruins. It is really easy to be on top when your infrastructure is intact and others have been decimated. Once countries began to rebuild their infrastructure/politically stabilize, they caught up quick.
Originally posted by Threedog: I would point to universal healthcare that has not tanked the economies of European countries or Japan or Korea or Canada.
I would point to taxation polices that work in Scandinavian and European countries that have not turned them into third world hell holes.
I would point to the utter lack of exodus of the super rich from countries that have progressive, strict taxation polices that heavily tax the rich.
I would point(as I have in this thread) to the increased social mobility in these economies, where poor people actually have a fair shot at getting rich.
I would point to many states in this country that have passed many liberal/leftist laws with large social safety nets and have seen increased social mobility and stronger economies. We like to think that America's super-capitalistic attitude is what allowed America to thrive during the second half of the twentieth centuries. However we forget that just about every other country that could rival us economically had been invaded, split, or bombed to complete and utter ruins. It is really easy to be on top when your infrastructure is intact and others have been decimated. Once countries began to rebuild their infrastructure/politically stabilize, they caught up quick.
It's amusing to watch you respond in ways that show you have no idea as to what the Hell you are talking about.
universal healthcare taxation polices that work in Scandinavian and European countries progressive, strict taxation polices that heavily tax the rich. increased social mobility liberal/leftist laws with large social safety nets and have seen increased social mobility and stronger economies.
The how, and what you'd have to dismantle to do these things become of utter importance. Not that I agree with any of the above. Again though did you watch any of the vids I posted that show the issues with this?
Increased social mobility... I.E. Affimative action I take it? Forced redistribution of wealth? Land? or?
After you get the US how you'd like it, would you then do the same on a world scale? Make it fair?
"I would point to many states in this country that have passed many liberal/leftist laws with large social safety nets and have seen increased social mobility and stronger economies."
The vids aren't that long. If you haven't listened to the earlier ones please go back and listen. Seriously search for opinions contrary to your own. Dismantling everything that caused the Free World is not something to rush in to lightly. Baby steps toward a bad end are still steps toward a bad end. Slopes are slippery, look at abortion these days, well that escalated quickly.
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 02-21-2019).]
I would point to universal healthcare that has not tanked the economies of European countries or Japan or Korea or Canada.
I would point to taxation polices that work in Scandinavian and European countries that have not turned them into third world hell holes.
I would point to the utter lack of exodus of the super rich from countries that have progressive, strict taxation polices that heavily tax the rich.
I would point(as I have in this thread) to the increased social mobility in these economies, where poor people actually have a fair shot at getting rich.
I would point to many states in this country that have passed many liberal/leftist laws with large social safety nets and have seen increased social mobility and stronger economies. We like to think that America's super-capitalistic attitude is what allowed America to thrive during the second half of the twentieth centuries. However we forget that just about every other country that could rival us economically had been invaded, split, or bombed to complete and utter ruins. It is really easy to be on top when your infrastructure is intact and others have been decimated. Once countries began to rebuild their infrastructure/politically stabilize, they caught up quick.
What bothers me about this is, Threedog is a teacher. Some people's kids are subjected to his attitude, opinions and most likely in how/what he teaches. Which will lead to more Socialist attitudes. This Socialist attitude used to be prevelent at the college level. Now I see they are working on the younger kids.
Rams
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 02-21-2019).]
What bothers me about this is, Threedog is a teacher. Some people's kids are subjected to his attitude, opinions and most likely in how/what he teaches. Which will lead to more Socialist attitudes. This Socialist attitude used to be prevelent at the college level. Now I see they are working on the younger kids.
Rams
I have been antiquated with two who had a PhD in Education. One was my mentor in the safety field and the other was the wife (now deceased) of a lifelong friend. Both were solid conservatives but each told me of the extreme left wing bias in academia. The problem is perpetuated by a tightly closed social group. Many in the field of education run in very narrow circles. They believe that they are superior because of their chosen field. I know from personal experience that standing in front of a classroom day after day can give one a false sense of inflated self worth. It can make one believe that he is the authority.
Originally posted by Threedog:Man, you guys really have no idea what socialism is. I assume the systems that the Nordic countries have are not socialist because they work? Well if they are not socialist, then Bernie Sanders is not socialist either. If they are socialist, then a socialist democracy can work. Which one is it?
