Given declining consumer demand and product profitability, the company will not invest in next generations of traditional Ford sedans for North America. Over the next few years, the Ford car portfolio in North America will transition to two vehicles –the best-selling Mustang and the all-new Focus Active crossover coming out next year.
Their electric vehicles will be crap, I wonder if they can survive on trucks alone? Better hope gas prices don't go up again...
[This message has been edited by RWDPLZ (edited 04-25-2018).]
Well, I do think 4 door sedans are dying a slow and painful death. SUVs and crossovers are what most passenger vehicle drivers seem to want now. That and pickup trucks. So, I'm not all that surprised although, completely eliminating sedans is a bit of a hard left turn IMHO.
Well, I do think 4 door sedans are dying a slow and painful death. SUVs and crossovers are what most passenger vehicle drivers seem to want now. That and pickup trucks. So, I'm not all that surprised although, completely eliminating sedans is a bit of a hard left turn IMHO.
Rams
quote
Originally posted by tshark:
The 4-door sedan is fine for...not much. Maybe basic transportation of a handful of people. Even with an SUV, when you want to move a fridge, or an ATV, or whatever, you need a truck. 9 seats in the SUV is nice, and SUVs are nice for groceries, pulling trailers, and some camping trips, but to get some work done, you need a truck.
I started out with 2-door cars, then went to 4-door cars, then small SUVs, then a van, then large SUVs, then trucks. I'd like to get an 8-liter truck, to get a bit more power.
Edit: what about Ford's "best-selling" truck? Not there were ever many Ford trucks around.
I think both of those are a bit of a short sighted assessment. Maybe in your mind the sedan is waning but there is something you apparently are not considering. I don't think it's a decrease in sedan popularity so much as a failure of domestic automakers to recover from the unreliable stigma they obtained in regards to there cars. Each domestic has had great success with their trucks and SUV's because they have always had and been able to keep the consumer belief in the durability of those offerings. If they could do the same with sedans, they would sell higher volumes, but they have not been able to. Does that mean their current offerings are not vastly improved as far as dependability goes if not superior to some foreign models? No, they have had some that are just as dependable. However, the foreign automakers continue to retain the dependable car admiration element and for the most part the stylistic appeal that American drivers are looking for.
It's easy to say SUV, truck, crossover, minivan and van sales are higher than cars. Well, yes they are but cars consist of what Midsize, Small, Large and sometimes Luxury as it's own class. Light duty trucks on the other hand? Pickup, Cross-over, Minivan, Small Van, Large Van, Midsize SUV, Large SUV, Small SUV and sometimes Luxury SUV. Light-duty truck also has the luxury of less strict EPA requirements but a cross-over is part car part SUV. If we toggle those number and apply them to cars that drastically changes things. What I mean.
March 2018 saw 555,625 cars sold and 1,097,904 light duty trucks.
However cross -overs count for 572,829 of those light-duty truck sales. Over half the light-duty truck sales are the part car part SUV cross-over.
If we apply those to cars we get 1,128,454 cars to 525,075 light-duty truck.
But cross-overs are not classified as cars. However, if we stop and consider, without cross-overs car sales would be higher than light-duty truck. The only reason light-duty truck sales are higher is because of the part car/part SUV cross-over. It's the middle ground more consumers are going for. Oh, and those cross-overs don't hold 9 people and aren't exactly good for moving a refrigerator either.
By all means, claim the sales of the Nissan Juke, Kia Sol, Subaru Forester, Toyota Rav4, Honda CRV, Porsche Cayman and myriad of other not so truckish cross-overs. Just don't claim that segment of your sales which is over half of them are the great big haulers and people movers.
Oh and if you think about it. Cars are just cars. Without the cross-overs, cars outsold SUV's, Truck's and Van's all put together. Heck, cross-overs outsold all SUV's, Truck's and Van's all put together. If anything there is a shift to cross-overs. But otherwise the market is roughly 1/3rd cars, 1/3rd cross-overs and 1/3rd SUV's/Truck's/Van's.
[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 04-26-2018).]
GM CEO Mary Barra has revealed that it’s car lineup isn’t going anywhere anytime soon, even though it has been reported that the future of the Chevy Sonic and Impala is in jeopardy. According to GM, its significant investments in its car lineup in 2015 and 2016 means that it can continue to offer competitive models without the need for a significant investment anytime soon.
I am contemplating a replacement for my daily driver. I'm thinking of a Mazda3. I am familiar with the term "cross-over", but I think that might be more SUV-like than I think I would want, for a daily driver.
So for me, this direction from Ford makes me think that as the future becomes the present, the menu of vehicles from which I could select could evolve to become more limited than I would like it to be.
Not a near term problem. But looking even farther down the road.
There could be others that are thinking the same way.
We really like 4 door sedans. We currently have 2 small ones since we sold our large AMG. We have been looking to "upgrade" our Jetta and get rid of our old Mazda that kind of just sits. I probably will only consider Ford or VW until we buy another "exotic". I have wanted a Town Car or similar, but since I don't do the majority of city driving the extra car is mine and I make choices more based on what Jenny wants. She wants another "big" sedan. We had been looking at the VW CC (which they ended last year) due to slumping sales. I think less than 6000 sold here. We checked out the Fiesta as my extra around town car a few years back and it was really a no go for both of us. I liked the 500, but I think they killed it off too. The Taurus optioned like I want always seem just out sight expensive. I don't really like Ford's offerings much. Outside of my truck(s) we probably will just stick with ze Germans.
They got this new 7X engine coming out soon though. I am waiting to see how it plays out I might be upping my super duty. I am super sad, I missed a 15 Platinum F-450 last week for $33,000. I couldn't get to the guy in a timely manor. I was likely going to just flip it, but was a bit worried I'd love it too much. I guess with the miles that was just about all the dealer wanted to give him. Probably for the best I want to use the money for a new property.
This is all fine and dandy now, but when the next gas crisis hits and people are scrambling for small gas easy sedans then Ford will be left holding their jaws thinking they screwed up.
Honestly, I don't care what others drive and, I do consider this decision by Ford to be pretty extreme but, they have folks that do nothing but gauge the market. I am not a Ford man. But, Ford has proven to be pretty shrewd and sound in their decision making. I can't say they are wrong.
Honestly, I don't care what others drive and, I do consider this decision by Ford to be pretty extreme but, they have folks that do nothing but gauge the market. I am not a Ford man. But, Ford has proven to be pretty shrewd and sound in their decision making. I can't say they are wrong.
Rams
Ford has never liquidated my stocks or failed to repay a "loan" I helped foot.
What kind of MPG are you getting dry in your Dodge? I'm not hauling super heavy and crunching the numbers I think I'd have to drive 300,000 maintenance free diesel miles. Even then I think with DEF or the elimination of DEF cost, and oil changes I'd still be running in the red. I guess I'mt trying to justify a want and it is super hard to find those sexy trim levels in the gas variants.
Ford has never liquidated my stocks or failed to repay a "loan" I helped foot.
What kind of MPG are you getting dry in your Dodge? I'm not hauling super heavy and crunching the numbers I think I'd have to drive 300,000 maintenance free diesel miles. Even then I think with DEF or the elimination of DEF cost, and oil changes I'd still be running in the red. I guess I'mt trying to justify a want and it is super hard to find those sexy trim levels in the gas variants.
First, my trucks are old enough that they don't need DEF. I run the year that I have cause they both perform well, accomplish the job and are both paid for. Paid for being one of the biggest reasons. I simply can not justify making payments on a $60 to $70K truck. Given that, fuel mileage is really dependent on how much of a hurry I am in. I have achieved as much as 24.9 mpg in my six speed Cummins 3/4 ton truck. The one ton dually (an automatic) won't do that well, but can get close to 22.5 if I keep my foot out of it. I normally expect both trucks to be in the 18 to 20 mpg. Neither truck has any mods other than increased exhaust flow due to larger (more free flowing) exhaust.
I generally don't get in a hurry, speed uses more fuel. Those numbers represent truck only, no trailer. Pulling an empty flat bed goose neck will take those numbers down about 3.5 mpg. Loaded is completely dependent on the aerodynamics and weights of the load.
The absolute worst mileage I had ever gotten was 14.2 mpg while transporting a big/tall load of baled hay cross country. That was true until last June when I transported four motorcycles using tandem trailers, the lead trailer being my RV toy hauler to Billings, MT. Crossing Wyoming, we encountered 60/70 mph headwinds. It was nasty and no fun. That trip hurt my wallet but was well worth it. 650+ Valkyries in one place. That was a blast.
Rams
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 05-01-2018).]
First, my trucks are old enough that they don't need DEF. I run the year that I have cause they both perform well, accomplish the job and are both paid for. Paid for being one of the biggest reasons. I simply can not justify making payments on a $60 to $70K truck. Given that, fuel mileage is really dependent on how much of a hurry I am in. I have achieved as much as 24.9 mpg in my six speed Cummins 3/4 ton truck. The one ton dually (an automatic) won't do that well, but can get close to 22.5 if I keep my foot out of it. I normally expect both trucks to be in the 18 to 20 mpg. Neither truck has any mods other than increased exhaust flow due to larger (more free flowing) exhaust.
I generally don't get in a hurry, speed uses more fuel. Those numbers represent truck only, no trailer. Pulling an empty flat bed goose neck will take those numbers down about 3.5 mpg. Loaded is completely dependent on the aerodynamics and weights of the load.
The absolute worst mileage I had ever gotten was 14.2 mpg while transporting a big/tall load of baled hay cross country. That was true until last June when I transported four motorcycles using tandem trailers, the lead trailer being my RV toy hauler to Billings, MT. Crossing Wyoming, we encountered 60/70 mph headwinds. It was nasty and no fun. That trip hurt my wallet but was well worth it. 650+ Valkyries in one place. That was a blast.
Rams
Jesus man. 14 is high to me, though I'm going to try a tank at 60MPH. My 6.0 diesel was in tbe same age as your Dodge ...and it was only 13-18. That was a 2wd. When I got a 4x4 it wasn't even that good.
I guess I'm stuck until they realize the diesels are complete dogs and the magic is in the turbo. If they boosted my V8 it would have plenty more torque and a much wider powerband. Pair that with the 6-10 scored transmissions I think they'd kill their diesel sales in light trucks. Maybe medium too.
Jesus man. 14 is high to me, though I'm going to try a tank at 60MPH. My 6.0 diesel was in tbe same age as your Dodge ...and it was only 13-18. That was a 2wd. When I got a 4x4 it wasn't even that good.
I guess I'm stuck until they realize the diesels are complete dogs and the magic is in the turbo. If they boosted my V8 it would have plenty more torque and a much wider powerband. Pair that with the 6-10 scored transmissions I think they'd kill their diesel sales in light trucks. Maybe medium too.
As I frequently tell folks that ask, I have no need or desire for 4WD. For what I do with my trucks, 4WD is a waste of resources and just eats more fuel. If the conditions are so bad I need 4WD, I'm not going until the roads are clear. No load is so important that I am going to risk myself, my equipment or my load.
Once in an while my son will help me out when I have more business than I can handle. He uses his one ton 2016 Ram, 6.7 turbo diesel, automatic , 4WD with some huge ass tires and wheels. He gets about the same numbers you are getting. He also drives much faster. AND, he has big truck payments. I have no interest in his Megacab.
Rams
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 05-01-2018).]
As I frequently tell folks that ask, I have no need or desire for 4WD. For what I do with my trucks, 4WD is a waste of resources and just eats more fuel. If the conditions are so bad I need 4WD, I'm not going until the roads are clear. No load is so important that I am going to risk myself, my equipment or my load.
Once in an while my son will help me out when I have more business than I can handle. He uses his one ton 2016 Ram, 6.7 turbo diesel, automatic , 4WD with some huge ass tires and wheels. He gets about the same numbers you are getting. He also drives much faster. AND, he has big truck payments. I have no interest in his Megacab.
Rams
I don't know if it is my driving or Ford Super Duty in general, but I get stuck in wet grass. Aside from taking something onto a job site I never pull a trailer over anything worse than gravel. I once was turning around on an embankment with my 25' double double gooseneck and got stuck across all lanes of traffic just on the other side of a hill in the dark. I used to just throw a pair of 55 gallon water drums in bed during the winter. I tend to only buy 4x4 since then. I got stuck in mine twice last month while it was raining on muddy roads while turning around. I thought it was just the heavy diesel up front, but this truck does it too. 4x4 walks it right out, but it is suspect. I don't recall it happening with any of my 1/2 ton trucks.
Regarding tires, mine are 17" rims, but tall. I am just under 34". I am thinking about getting another set of 18" rims that will put me just over 33" (factory with new tires for cheaper than I can buy the tires). Nothing major but it adds up quick. I am sitting at 14.1MPG with a 2 hour trip at 70ish the same trip back at 65ish and some in town driving. If I could start averaging over 15MPG I'd never go over 60MPH. I need to crunch the math on it and see where it makes it worth my effort. I don't drive fast to start with, but it is 600 miles from my house to Lafayette and it takes me every bit of 10 hours. My mother has done it in under 8, but she is a speeder and doesn't have a large vehicle. The guy that I declined on the Platinum 450 said he was seeing the same MPG with 4:30 gearing. Didn't specify what speed, I assume fast as he seemed that type. 235,000 miles on a 3 year old vehicle doesn't really scare me, but the $2000 minimum of every repair would have me nervous to work it too much. I can have a whole re-manufactured engine installed for less than $5000 if this one dies. Seems the highest miles one is 418k before having an issue with a cam. He had a reman installed and is well into 500k now.
I tried to see if anyone had put a turbo on this engine. Everyone and it is few that has is trying to hot rod it out. Such a waste of effort in my eyes.
[This message has been edited by ls3mach (edited 05-01-2018).]
I don't know if it is my driving or Ford Super Duty in general, but I get stuck in wet grass. Aside from taking something onto a job site I never pull a trailer over anything worse than gravel. I once was turning around on an embankment with my 25' double double gooseneck and got stuck across all lanes of traffic just on the other side of a hill in the dark. I used to just throw a pair of 55 gallon water drums in bed during the winter. I tend to only buy 4x4 since then. I got stuck in mine twice last month while it was raining on muddy roads while turning around. I thought it was just the heavy diesel up front, but this truck does it too. 4x4 walks it right out, but it is suspect. I don't recall it happening with any of my 1/2 ton trucks.
Regarding tires, mine are 17" rims, but tall. I am just under 34". I am thinking about getting another set of 18" rims that will put me just over 33" (factory with new tires for cheaper than I can buy the tires). Nothing major but it adds up quick. I am sitting at 14.1MPG with a 2 hour trip at 70ish the same trip back at 65ish and some in town driving. If I could start averaging over 15MPG I'd never go over 60MPH. I need to crunch the math on it and see where it makes it worth my effort. I don't drive fast to start with, but it is 600 miles from my house to Lafayette and it takes me every bit of 10 hours. My mother has done it in under 8, but she is a speeder and doesn't have a large vehicle. The guy that I declined on the Platinum 450 said he was seeing the same MPG with 4:30 gearing. Didn't specify what speed, I assume fast as he seemed that type. 235,000 miles on a 3 year old vehicle doesn't really scare me, but the $2000 minimum of every repair would have me nervous to work it too much. I can have a whole re-manufactured engine installed for less than $5000 if this one dies. Seems the highest miles one is 418k before having an issue with a cam. He had a reman installed and is well into 500k now.
I tried to see if anyone had put a turbo on this engine. Everyone and it is few that has is trying to hot rod it out. Such a waste of effort in my eyes.
Will have to respond to this tomorrow, time to go to my "part time job".
Not a big deal. I think the only Ford car they make now other than Focus and Mustang anyway is the Fusion/Taurus. Police even went to SUVs. So just getting rid of the Fusion/Taurus is not a big leap. I dont even think Ive seen a new Taurus on the road so theyre not hot sellers. Everyone is buying SUVs anyway, in every different size.
Not a big deal. I think the only Ford car they make now other than Focus and Mustang anyway is the Fusion/Taurus. Police even went to SUVs. So just getting rid of the Fusion/Taurus is not a big leap. I dont even think Ive seen a new Taurus on the road so theyre not hot sellers. Everyone is buying SUVs anyway, in every different size.
The Fiesta also. I’m not sure if there are any others. Did they stop building the 500, or is that what evolved into the Tarus. I think the only current Ford vehicle I’d like to check out as a possible buy would be the Focus RT. However if it is as narrow/small and unrefined interior was as past Focus offerings it’d be a no go. I just found a the past offerings to be cramped and the interior missing the fit and finish of foreign competitors offerings.
Arent the Focus and Fiesta european based imports (Escort?) ? I really dont know. I didnt hear about Fiesta, but did hear the Focus is just the crossover (suv). I think Taurus changed its name to 500, and when it flopped they renamed it back.
[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 05-02-2018).]
Even though it may be made here, I still think its related to europe's Escort. Toyotas, BMWs and Hondas are also made in the US, but I still dont consider them US cars...just foreign cars made under US license.
I also think its confusing about Lincoln. I took the released statement as meaning ONLY Ford products, not Ford Motor Company in general. All Lincolns seem to sell well across the board. I think Ford could get by with just making F series pickups and Explorers. They sell those by the tens of thousands.
[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 05-03-2018).]
Are they really being stupid, or are they being shrewd? Remember, Ford was the only one of the Big Three that didn't need bailout money.
In my opinion, the current CEO (Hackett) is being stupid and Ford will be caught with their pants down when gas prices eventually go up again. He's going to ruin all the good that Alan Mulally did for the company during his tenure. Mulally was a former engineer who worked his way up at Boeing before going to Ford and had a passion for the product. Hackett is a bean counter was previously a office furniture company CEO (Steelcase) and was infamous for cutting workforce and shuttering a lot of Steelcase's facilities. He even laid off the guy who was the best man at his wedding....
I commute 90 highway miles a day, I need a fuel efficient (35+ MPG HWY) car for that drive that will easily last 200,000 miles. I was thinking Ford Focus, now I'm thinking Hyundai Elantra (hey, it's actually built in this country) or Chevy Cruze.
Are they really being stupid, or are they being shrewd? Remember, Ford was the only one of the Big Three that didn't need bailout money.
Actually not 100% true. They helped lobby for the bail outs, because they feared if the others went under, it would hurt suppliers, and in turn, hurt Ford as well. They just didn't get a standard bailout like GM and Chrysler did. But they did request a 9 billion dollar loan from the federal government to "restructure", and i think they got around 6 billion. Then made a bunch of car adds putting down the other manufacturers who did take the bail out.
So as old ben kenobi once said.. Weather they got "bailed out", Its all about your point of view.
[This message has been edited by Jonesy (edited 05-05-2018).]
Jesus man. 14 is high to me, though I'm going to try a tank at 60MPH. My 6.0 diesel was in tbe same age as your Dodge ...and it was only 13-18. That was a 2wd. When I got a 4x4 it wasn't even that good.
I guess I'm stuck until they realize the diesels are complete dogs and the magic is in the turbo. If they boosted my V8 it would have plenty more torque and a much wider powerband. Pair that with the 6-10 scored transmissions I think they'd kill their diesel sales in light trucks. Maybe medium too.
quote
Originally posted by ls3mach: I don't know if it is my driving or Ford Super Duty in general, but I get stuck in wet grass. Aside from taking something onto a job site I never pull a trailer over anything worse than gravel. I once was turning around on an embankment with my 25' double double gooseneck and got stuck across all lanes of traffic just on the other side of a hill in the dark. I used to just throw a pair of 55 gallon water drums in bed during the winter. I tend to only buy 4x4 since then. I got stuck in mine twice last month while it was raining on muddy roads while turning around. I thought it was just the heavy diesel up front, but this truck does it too. 4x4 walks it right out, but it is suspect. I don't recall it happening with any of my 1/2 ton trucks.
Regarding tires, mine are 17" rims, but tall. I am just under 34". I am thinking about getting another set of 18" rims that will put me just over 33" (factory with new tires for cheaper than I can buy the tires). Nothing major but it adds up quick. I am sitting at 14.1MPG with a 2 hour trip at 70ish the same trip back at 65ish and some in town driving. If I could start averaging over 15MPG I'd never go over 60MPH. I need to crunch the math on it and see where it makes it worth my effort. I don't drive fast to start with, but it is 600 miles from my house to Lafayette and it takes me every bit of 10 hours. My mother has done it in under 8, but she is a speeder and doesn't have a large vehicle. The guy that I declined on the Platinum 450 said he was seeing the same MPG with 4:30 gearing. Didn't specify what speed, I assume fast as he seemed that type. 235,000 miles on a 3 year old vehicle doesn't really scare me, but the $2000 minimum of every repair would have me nervous to work it too much. I can have a whole re-manufactured engine installed for less than $5000 if this one dies. Seems the highest miles one is 418k before having an issue with a cam. He had a reman installed and is well into 500k now.
I tried to see if anyone had put a turbo on this engine. Everyone and it is few that has is trying to hot rod it out. Such a waste of effort in my eyes.
Based on my own experience and the experiences conveyed to me by friends who have owned and operated the Ford 6 liter, it's not a fuel miser. It's also not a strong performance engine. Sorry, that's just what I've heard. I've transported side by side with an equally loaded 6 L Ford and generally speaking I can walk off from them on hills and will get better mileage doing it. The later model 7.3L performs much better if you are dedicated to a Ford. As previously stated, I'm a Cummins fan.
I also see 4WD as a waste of resources unless you actually need and use 4WD. I don't.
That ten hour drive you mentioned will not be increased dramatically just cause you slow down 5 mph but, I would expect you to see increased mpg. I'd be interested to learn the results of your next trip.
I commute 90 highway miles a day, I need a fuel efficient (35+ MPG HWY) car for that drive that will easily last 200,000 miles. I was thinking Ford Focus, now I'm thinking Hyundai Elantra (hey, it's actually built in this country) or Chevy Cruze.
Toyota makes some decent choices that fit that bill as well.
I know that after buying the Prius that from this point on, I'll be looking for an electric hybrid. The same for the wife. All electric doesn't make sense to me and I wonder what Ford is thinking by going this route, but an electric hybrid works awesomely well IMO.
Like others have said, the world seems to have moved to hatchbacks, in all sizes from the Ford Focus to the Buick whatever. They all look the same, just a few different curves here or there. The new SUVs are just large hatchbacks.
I haven't had the 6.0 in a few years. I swapped to gas when I started a new company. My 6.0 ran well, but 2 of them were dogs. One would melt the tires. No idea what was different.
