California’s NAACP is pushing for state lawmakers to support a campaign to remove “The Star Spangled Banner” as the country’s national anthem. The group says the song, which has been a point of controversy in the NFL, is “one of the most racist, pro-slavery, anti-black songs in the American lexicon,” The Sacramento Bee reported Tuesday. The NAACP’s California chapter last week reportedly sent out two resolutions, which had been passed at the organizations state conference last month.
One of the resolutions was to support the removal of the anthem, while the other is an effort to get the NFL to fit former player Colin Kaepernick onto a team. Kaepernick, a former San Francisco 49ers quarterback, was the first NFL player to kneel during the national anthem, which is typically played before games.
“We owe a lot of it to Kaepernick,” California NAACP President Alice Huffman told The Sacramento Bee. “I think all this controversy about the knee will go away once the song is removed.” Huffman said she wrote the resolutions after President Trump said NFL owners should fire players who protest during the anthem.
“Trump got in the middle of it. He blew it out of proportion,” Huffman said of the president, who labeled players who kneel as a "son of a b---h" during an Alabama rally. The U.S. Congress should adopt a new national anthem that’s not “another song that disenfranchises part of the American population,” Huffman said.
“The Star-Spangled Banner” has been the nation’s anthem since 1931, when President Herbert Hoover signed a congressional act making it the song of the United States.
My understanding is the controversy is due to wording in the third stanza. Frances Scott Key penned the second and third stanza of his poem after being released from the British warships before their departure. It refers to slaves and hireling.
And where is that band who so vauntingly swore, That the havoc of war and the battle’s confusion A home and a Country should leave us no more? Their blood has wash’d out their foul footstep’s pollution. No refuge could save the hireling and slave From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave, And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.
Some historians suppose he, being a slave holder, harbored resentment against blacks as manysided and fought with the British in the revolution. Other say the slaves were the impressed often kid napped British sailors who often went unpaid and the hirelings were the officers whom he was calling hired mercenaries of the Crown. He never said what he intended the words to mean. Virtually no one sings the second much less third stanza of the poem. I hadn't heard the complete song in decades. Some folks don't even know this stanza exists.
I'd also like to know when this became the issue. Thought is was about police treatment of minorities?
------------------ Ron
Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun.... Open your frigg'n minds, think about all the other tools that can be made into WMDs.
I sincerely hope that life is never discovered on another planet because, sure as hell Progressives and Socialists will want to send them money.
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 11-08-2017).]
First of all, **** the NAACP for trying to destroy our nation's history. Seriously, **** them. I hope this blows up in their faces.
Second of all, people typically only sing the first stanza of the Star Spangled Banner, anyway. This is especially true for sporting events. So I don't see the problem.
By definition, the naacp is racist. In practice, the naacp is racist,...so no gun jumping. They are just a politically correct racist group like blm. I do believe that there are people within that are not racist but that does not excuse the racism that they either turn a blind eye to or outright condone.
Instrumental renditions of the German national anthem are the same today as they were during the Hitler era, and before that, the Weimar Republic.
Officially, the German language lyrics have been curtailed to only the third of the three original stanzas. So the modern version does not have "Deutschland, Deutschland über allies, über alles in der Welt, ..."
Inadvertent Rendition of Nazi-Era "Deutschland, Deutschland Über Alles" Before Fed Cup Match Against Germany Timothy Burke for Deadspin; February 2, 2017. https://deadspin.com/u-s-pe...nd-uber-a-1792271568
Instrumental renditions of the German national anthem are the same today as they were during the Hitler era, and before that, the Weimar Republic.
Officially, the German language lyrics have been curtailed to only the third of the three original stanzas. So the modern version does not have "Deutschland, Deutschland über allies, über alles in der Welt, ..."
Inadvertent Rendition of Nazi-Era "Deutschland, Deutschland Über Alles" Before Fed Cup Match Against Germany Timothy Burke for Deadspin; February 2, 2017. https://deadspin.com/u-s-pe...nd-uber-a-1792271568
Your point ?
------------------ Ron
Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun.... Open your frigg'n minds, think about all the other tools that can be made into WMDs.
I sincerely hope that life is never discovered on another planet because, sure as hell Progressives and Socialists will want to send them money.
I'm all for this. It should happen immediately. If California would just go ahead and secede, The Star Spangled Banner would no longer be their national anthem.
I'm all for this. It should happen immediately. If California would just go ahead and secede, The Star Spangled Banner would no longer be their national anthem.
The new Peoples Democratic Republic of Kalifornia anthem:
.......
The original Soviet version is just as tedious and dogmatic but surely the proletariat of Kalifornia won't care:
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 11-08-2017).]
I am picking up on the second part of the message here from Blacktree: "... people typically only sing the first stanza of the Star Spangled Banner, anyway. This is especially true for sporting events."
So someone could "memo" this to the California chapter of the NAACP:
quote
We are, in effect, handling this just as the Germans have done with their national anthem. The older German language lyrics of it had three stanzas or verses; now it's been officially stripped down to just the last of the original three, which does not have the Nazi-era connotations of the first and second verses. Most especially, the verse that starts with "Deutschland, Deutschland über allies, über alles in der Welt", or "Germany, Germany, over all, over all the world." Those words, which are so redolent of the Nazi-era, have been officially excised from the present day German national anthem.
No one ever sings the third stanza of the Star Spangled Banner anymore; especially not at sporting events. It's been unofficially but very effectively excised. So this objection from you folks at the California chapter of the NAACP is just a triviality; a "carp." A "dead herring." It's nothing to waste any more time on.
P.S. **** you.
I would give this approach a try, if this were to somehow, by some crazy turn of events, land on my "desk" or appear in my "inbox."
How good is that?
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 11-08-2017).]
So, does that mean Metallica is racist? What about Jimi Hendrix? Whitney Houston?
I'm willing to bet that those mentioned and most of the folks on this forum didn't even know there was a third stanza.
I've been around a while and one thing I know is, if I dig deep and long enough, I'll find something I don't approve of. And, that's if I don't have an agenda.
------------------ Ron
Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun.... Open your frigg'n minds, think about all the other tools that can be made into WMDs.
I sincerely hope that life is never discovered on another planet because, sure as hell Progressives and Socialists will want to send them money.
By definition, the naacp is racist. In practice, the naacp is racist,...so no gun jumping. They are just a politically correct racist group like blm. I do believe that there are people within that are not racist but that does not excuse the racism that they either turn a blind eye to or outright condone.
I'm so tired of this, and I'm only 20. I can't even imagine what's to come twenty or thirty years from now.
WELP, get off your ass and do something, get involved, don't do what the boomers did and let it run on autopilot till they turned 60 then go what the hell happened..
He's insinuating that America's history is not something to be respected and lauded, but instead is AS BAD as what the National Socialist Worker's Party did in Germany. So his point is that we should change the national anthem because it's harkens back to imperialist roots or something.
Of course, he's ****ing insane, and it's probably the most asinine thing I've heard today, and may hear all month. But there you have it...
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: He's insinuating that America's history is not something to be respected and lauded, but instead is AS BAD as what the National Socialist Worker's Party did in Germany. So his point is that we should change the national anthem because it's harkens back to imperialist roots or something.
Of course, he's ****ing insane, and it's probably the most asinine thing I've heard today, and may hear all month. But there you have it...
No freakin' way am I saying or insinuating anything even remotely like that.
Let's break this down by the numbers.
California NAACP raises its objection to some words that are peculiar to the third (and only the third) stanza of the Star-Spangled Banner.
Blacktree remarks that the third stanza of the Star-Spangled Banner is seldom performed, and really never performed at any common sporting event.
I remark that in the modern era, the German National Anthem was officially revised to eliminate what were originally the first and second stanzas, which convey very unwanted, ultra-nationalist echoes of the Nazi era.
The German National Anthem has been reduced to a single stanza--originally the third stanza--which has references to "unity", "rights" and "freedom", and is commonly accepted as commonly acceptable for a modern democratic nation that shares so many values with the United States and the other democratic nations of Western Europe, and more recently, Central Europe.
I remark that the California NAACP's objection to the Star-Spanged Banner is moot, because their objection is about some particular words in the third stanza of the Star-Spangled Banner; a stanza, as Blacktree remarked, that is for all intents and purposes, never (hardly ever) performed anymore.
In effect, the third stanza of the Star-Spangled Banner has already been removed in practice (albeit not by any formal decision; it's not "official.").
I liken that to the modern-era revision of the German National Anthem, to eliminate what were originally its first and second stanzas, via an official decision from whoever was assigned the responsibility for post-WW2 Germany's top-level program of German National Anthem maintenance and support.
I remark that because it's effectively a moot point, the California NAACP should "get over it" and focus on other issues. Or just **** itself.
The parallel that I created--that was my intention to create--was about the way that both the Star-Spangled Banner and the German National Anthem have been abridged in modern times.
Francis Scott Key wrote four stanzas of the Star-Spangled Banner. Only the first stanza is commonly performed today; especially at sporting events.
During the Weimar Republic and the Nazi dictatorship that followed, the German National Anthem comprised three stanzas. Now, it's just a single stanza. The one stanza that still stands (officially) is what used to be the third stanza. A stanza that is anodyne with respect to today's international sensibilities, if not exactly universally inspiring.
The parallel that I had in mind here was about process: the process of abridgment. It was not about content.
How clear is that?
This has been another online episode of "Insinuate This."
I hope you enjoyed it.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 11-09-2017).]
I have to admit, it did look like you were comparing the USA to Nazi Germany.
Thanks for the clarification.
And for the record, I see no reason why the "official version" of the Star Spangled Banner can't be pared down to just the first stanza. That's basically all that is ever performed in public, anyway. So it won't really affect anything, except the nit-pickers will have to find something else to ***** about.
This is all rinse's fault.. His shadeballs are causing this.. As they say it's something in the water.((((((((((((((((((((((SHADDDDEEEBBBAAAAALLLLLSSSS))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
[This message has been edited by E.Furgal (edited 11-11-2017).]
Looking at this in the (proverbial) rearview mirror, I set myself up for an accidental excursion into the minefield of misunderstanding. A bruise cruise to the psyche (my own.) From which I segue from "misunderstanding" to an excellence I just discovered, as I was searching for something to segue to, or to which, to seque:
East Is East And West Is West And Never The Twain Shall Meet.
Now Is The Winter Of Our Discontent.
How the original meaning of the words has morphed (mutated) over decades--yea, even centuries--of usage. A humorous but also informative writeup. For anyone who values careful scholarship. Or enjoys a good seque. A small token of my penance, set upon the altar of collegiality. Strictly optional reading. For those with time to spend, yea even lavish, upon this already most optional of discussions.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 11-09-2017).]
I want the schools, libraries, streets, and parks in Martin Luther King's name removed. After reading some of the FBI files on the man, he is a pedophile, womanizing, loser. I am ok with removing monuments if it is truly fair.
I want the schools, libraries, streets, and parks in Martin Luther King's name removed. After reading some of the FBI files on the man, he is a pedophile, womanizing, loser. I am ok with removing monuments if it is truly fair.
Good luck with that, nothing in the FBI files is news, most knew all of it, many didn't want to believe it, and will claim it's just whitey's lies..
Oh and the fact that, those that would think they should be removed have jobs and no time to pull down or destroy them, and they value they're freedom.. I think they should be destroyed just like the others were, and sit back and watch as the didn't do'd burn the cities down rioting like animals.
[This message has been edited by E.Furgal (edited 11-09-2017).]
This has been another online episode of "Insinuate This."
I hope you enjoyed it.
Really Rinse? Of all the anthems that have been abridged or updated over the years from the hundreds of countries on this planet, you picked the only one which was changed because it literally spoke about an advanced race "above all else" after having killed 30 million Jews and Catholics?
I'll take your word for it... but seriously man, use better judgement.
It was the only other case of the abridgment of a national anthem (German national anthem) that I was already familiar with, so I just kind of seized on it very directly as my "helpful" analogy, without considering how that could be misunderstood. An un-nuanced communication. An unguarded moment.
I would have to search online, to find some other national anthem that had lyrics from an earlier time that were removed by abridgment, in order to reflect modern values and sensibilities, and leave behind the echoes of an earlier and less respectable period of that nation's history.
There probably are other examples, but the German example is the only other instance of such that is already known to me.
Now I do admit that I kind of wanted to just throw it into this discussion for its own sake. As a bit of history that is kind of interesting, in its own way. And it enabled me to segue to that news report from January, where they inadvertently (and carelessly) presented the "wrong" version of the German national anthem before a tennis tournament.
In truth, it was as a stage prop, in the hopes of drumming up an even larger audience for my messaging, instead of my being strictly matter of fact and adhering in a disciplined way to the bread and butter issues that were at hand.
Who could possibly have seen that coming?
A rhetorical (and not at all serious) question.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 11-09-2017).]
In truth, it was as a stage prop, in the hopes of drumming up an even larger audience for my messaging,
I rarely read your posts because they are to long and to bizarre. I have not used a computer in years, so long posts on my phone are not as easy to read.
quote
instead of my being strictly matter of fact and adhering in a disciplined way to the bread and butter issues that were at hand.
A to the point strategy would be Worlds ahead of your current choice of reply format.
I rarely read your posts because they are too long and too bizarre. I have not used a computer in years, so long posts on my phone are not as easy to read. A to-the-point strategy would be worlds ahead of your current choice of reply format.
Accessing the forum from a cell phone? That's like bringing a knife to a gun fight. Or bringing a disposable plastic spork to a picnic that's catered by Wolfgang Puck.
I have short posts and long posts and posts in between. Posts with page links and posts with GIFs; posts with images and videos that stream, and posts that are as bare as an empty room. Posts that are full-bodied and discursive, or as terse as an old fashioned telegram. Even an occasional post that rhymes.
I do it all.
It's just a question of finding what you want.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 11-11-2017).]
I'm all for this. It should happen immediately. If California would just go ahead and secede, The Star Spangled Banner would no longer be their national anthem.
Oh, ****, no !!!
Then they are gonna want to join Canada.
We already HAVE Quebec, and we DONT need a province of "special and unique" cultures on BOTH coasts !!!!. We cant damn AFFORD it !!
Heh, I wonder what the NAACP would want our 'new' national anthem to be.
I want black people to quit calling themselves African Americans. None or few are from Africa, and, African is so derogatory as Africans sold them into slavery.
Even calling themselves colored people sounds derogatory. It lumps them in with Hispanics and Asians. I won't even call my friends of African descent black, my Hispanic friends brown, or my Asian friends yellow. I don't even call myself white.
Originally posted by E.Furgal: This is all rinse's fault.. His shadeballs are causing this.. As they say it's something in the water.. (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((SHADDDDEEEBBBAAAAALLLLLSSSS))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
You have sinned against the Forum by stretching the page.
Atonement can be had by removing about half of your " ) ". Please. Pretty please ?
What's after the National Anthem ? The American flag, because America at one time allowed slavery ?
I have short posts and long posts and posts in between. Posts with page links and posts with GIFs; posts with images and videos that stream, and posts that are as bare as an empty room. Posts that are full-bodied and discursive, or as terse as an old fashioned telegram. Even an occasional post that rhymes.
I do it all.
I'm placing an order at the Rinsey cafeteria of ideas.
