So now we have resorted into the weakest argument yet. That mass people will be electrocuted because they will have to plug an electric cord in the snow.
But it is perfectly ok for the masses and safe for them to pump highly flammable liquid into their cars no matter the weather.
I guess one cannot understand that there are already thousands upon thousands upon thousands of electric chargers out there for public use yet not one person has been electrocuted.
Also, I've notice that those who are highly vocal against electric vehicles are those who tend to frame the debate as a political left versus right issue, but cloak it under technology and now safety imaginary infeasibility or unable to overcome present limitations. But they are wrong on all of it. This isn't a political issue or green agenda. Technology, economics and basic capitalism will be the force for wide spread adoption.
They aren't going to force electric vehicles down your throat or it isn't a left-wing agenda. My point is that electric vehicles have now gone or are passing through a critical point in the adoption curve that they will become mainstream and most likely the primary source of vehicles in the very near future.
[This message has been edited by Wichita (edited 09-14-2017).]
So you'd not plug in and use an electric tool in a puddle or the rain/snow.. unless you really trusted that cable and the connection to be water tight, but yet you think having the masses that are asses plugging in a vehicle in the snow/slush/rain/puddles will be the wave of the future..
The dumb it is strong..
You know they are on the road don't you? Have been for years but you can't reference a single case.
We get it, you'll come up with staw man after straw man to support your bias.
... I've notice that those who are highly vocal against electric vehicles are those who tend to frame the debate as a political left versus right issue ...
That's been my general observation as well. That doesn't mean that there aren't still substantial technical and infrastructure issues yet to be resolved. Technology evolves, and the culture that surrounds it changes too.
quote
They aren't going to force electric vehicles down your throat or it isn't a left-wing agenda. My point is that electric vehicles have now gone or are passing through a critical point in the adoption curve that they will become mainstream and most likely the primary source of vehicles in the very near future.
There will probably be a few instances where electric vehicles will be mandated, but not many. People will adopt electric vehicles because they are more convenient, more economical, or better performing (for their individual requirements) than competing technologies. My long-term prediction is that many 2-car American families will adopt one of the following models:
1) An electric vehicle for in-town use and regional trips of 400 miles or less, plus a fueled (e.g. fossil fuel, biofuel, hydrogen, or some combination) utility vehicle for long-distance travel and/or hauling big loads.
2) One or two electric vehicles for in-town use and regional trips up to 400 miles, and renting fueled vehicles (short term) for long-distance trips or other infrequent needs. Even today, I don't own a pickup truck ... because I seldom need one and can conveniently rent (or borrow) one whenever I need it.
Eventually, decreasing availability of fossil fuels as demand slowly drops will drive the final ascendance of electric vehicles. At some point, practical battery/fuel-cell/plug-in hybrids may appear ... the best of both worlds, probably at a premium price point.
[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 09-14-2017).]
2) One or two electric vehicles for in-town use and regional trips up to 400 miles, and renting fueled vehicles (short term) for long-distance trips or other infrequent needs. Even today, I don't own a pickup truck ... because I seldom need one and can conveniently rent (or borrow) one whenever I need it.
Exactly where I'm at right now.
I don't own a car at the moment, and don't need one. I ride an ebike most times. Within 4 blocks I have a train station, Greyhound station and over 30 local transit stops on 5-15 minute service. I have CommunityCar (similar to zip car) 75 meters away when I need one. I have uber. I have taxis.
I have all KINDS of options that cost one hell of a lot less than the questionable convenience (at average $10k/yr) of car ownership in a major urban core. AND I dont have to worry about being part of the atrocious B&E rate around here for vehicles.
Once I get out of here and back to a rural area, that will change and it will be back to pickup trucks and the associated costs. But for now, the money is better put elsewhere.
They aren't going to force electric vehicles down your throat or it isn't a left-wing agenda. My point is that electric vehicles have now gone or are passing through a critical point in the adoption curve that they will become mainstream and most likely the primary source of vehicles in the very near future.
My own response to this is that the reason I have not adopted and don't plan to adopt an Electric Car is that they are not economically viable without government intervention. They might become economically viable and when they do I will reconsider them. But, for now, they are not.
As for forcing electric cars on us, that is already happening across the world. I believe it was France, Germany and even China that are making up new rules and regulations to outlaw the use of internal combustion engines in a few years. And it wouldn't surprise me to see California and a few other states follow suite.
In 1917, when Model-T Fords were selling for about $400, the Detroit Electric was a luxury car selling for about $4,500. Except for tires and batteries, the example above is 100% original; it has never been restored. It's roadworthy, licensed, and insured, and the current owner occasionally drives it on the street. (Note the fresh road spatter on the underside of the front fender.)
[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 09-14-2017).]
I wonder if it has the range to get back OFF the street.
The Detroit Electric had an advertised range of about 100 miles, but many owners reported real-world range of up to twice that under favorable conditions. (Imagine ... 200 mile range in 1917!). The killer today would be top speed: about 20 mph, depending on load and terrain.
The Detroit Electric was primarily sold as a doctor's car (as was this example) or as a rich lady's car ... for the same reasons. No matter the weather, you could just step into the car and drive off at a moment's notice. No hand cranking, mechanical fiddling, or profane incantations were required. Steering is by tiller bar and there are two sets of controls, so you can drive from either the front or back seat.
[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 09-14-2017).]
Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: Steering is by tiller bar and there are two sets of controls, so you can drive from either the front or back seat.
Perfect for my Mother in Law!!!! And, her daughter.................
Perfect for my Mother in Law!!!! And, her daughter.................
Here is a pic of the interior. The original upholstery is a little worn, but you can clearly see the bench rear seat, the swiveling "captain's chair" front seats, and the dual controls mounted on the left door pillars. The longer, slightly curved bars are the tiller bars, which fold down, and the shorter, straight bars control both the electric motor and the brakes. When driving from the back seats, your front-seat passengers could swivel around so you could all carry on a proper, civilized conversation. Distracted driving is nothing new.
[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 09-14-2017).]
Here is a pic of the interior. The original upholstery is a little worn, but you can clearly see the bench rear seat, the swiveling "captain's chair" front seats, and the dual controls mounted on the left door pillars. The longer, slightly curved bars are the tiller bars, which fold down, and the shorter, straight bars control both the electric motor and the brakes. When driving from the back seats, your front-seat passengers could swivel around so you could all carry on a proper, civilized conversation. Distracted driving is nothing new.
Very interesting Marvin, thanks for posting that. Wouldn't work for my MIL though, nothing for her to hold onto tightly. I would imagine Roger driving one but, they obviously don't have sufficient speed to check off anything on his bucket list.
Originally posted by Wichita: ... There has been a large scale reduction per unit of power consumption based on appliance effiency alone. Average home uses 25% less today than they did in 1980. ...
True. Demand for electricity is steadily dropping off, due to more efficient appliances, as well as conservation efforts promoted by... the power company. Go figure.
True. Demand for electricity is steadily dropping off, due to more efficient appliances, as well as conservation efforts promoted by... the power company. Go figure.
Now they are big on trying to upsell you the "green" energy.
Still waiting for that "electricity too cheap to meter"...
Vietnam War, Hippies and the Hollywood Leftist of the 1970's like Jane Fonda killed that.
Nuclear Energy is a dying industry of power source and nobody wants to chase for cold fusion anymore and that research is pushed to obscurity of only a few research groups even trying to find a bit of hope in that area.
But cheaper in relative terms since the 1960's.
[This message has been edited by Wichita (edited 09-15-2017).]
I don't know how I missed this. We are already taxed fairly, at exactly the same rate as everyone else based on the amount of electricity we use.
Hmmm, not too sure about that. Please enlighten me in regards to "fairly". I would agree that we are all taxed on electricity but, fairly? State implemented road taxes are higher to help pay for road maintenance. Basic taxes on electricity won't cover additional maintenance for the roads or, am I wrong on that.
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 09-16-2017).]
In 1917, when Model-T Fords were selling for about $400, the Detroit Electric was a luxury car selling for about $4,500. Except for tires and batteries, the example above is 100% original; it has never been restored. It's roadworthy, licensed, and insured, and the current owner occasionally drives it on the street. (Note the fresh road spatter on the underside of the front fender.)
it has been restored.. one might even say the powertrain rebuilt.. or are you claiming that the 100 year old batteries are still powering it ?
Hmmm, not too sure about that. Please enlighten me in regards to "fairly". I would agree that we are all taxed on electricity but, fairly? State implemented road taxes are higher to help pay for road maintenance. Basic taxes on electricity won't cover additional maintenance for the roads or, am I wrong on that.
There is an increase in tolls being used for roads, other than number of axles, it doesn't distinguish between gas or electric.
I was hearing about Oregon implementing a mile use tax (report your Odometer reading) as a way to tax vehicles.
... are you claiming that the 100 year old batteries are still powering it ?
As I previously stated ... and you quoted:
quote
Originally posted by Marvin McInnis:
Except for tires and batteries, the example above is 100% original.
What is most surprising to me is the condition of the upholstery fabric and the exterior paint. There is light surface corrosion evident on some of the external hardware ... e.g. the door handles. It helps that the car has spent most of its life garaged, in a semi-arid climate.
[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 09-17-2017).]
What is most surprising to me is the condition of the upholstery fabric and the exterior paint. There is light surface corrosion evident on some of the external hardware ... e.g. the door handles. It helps that the car has spent most of its life garaged, in a semi-arid climate.
and motor brushes, and motor bearings re greased, all connections cleaned and battery cables that the acid fuse wicked up under the insulation..etc etc etc..
ya, they just dumped new batteries in it and tires and away they went..
[This message has been edited by E.Furgal (edited 09-17-2017).]
So, you are Sunday's aszzhole. It took me only two sips of coffee to find you today. Usually I can enjoy a bit more of my brew before I encounter the day's first idiot.
There is an increase in tolls being used for roads, other than number of axles, it doesn't distinguish between gas or electric.
I was hearing about Oregon implementing a mile use tax (report your Odometer reading) as a way to tax vehicles.
I'm sure they will find a way.
So, now we're going to have to pay tolls in addition to fuel/road taxes? That doesn't seem like fair play to me. Toll roads can be avoided, I do it all the time. I can't avoid a fuel tax. (Actually, I could but I don't. It's illegal but, I think I know some that do.) The only fair way to do this is a mileage tax. But, if they decide to do that, then they need to eliminate the fuel tax so that we're all on the same level playing field.
------------------ Ron
Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun.... Open your frigg'n minds, think about all the other tools that can be made into WMDs.
I sincerely hope that life is never discovered on another planet because, sure as hell Progressives and Socialists will want to send them money.
Originally posted by Tony Kania: So, you are Sunday's aszzhole. It took me only two sips of coffee to find you today. Usually I can enjoy a bit more of my brew before I encounter the day's first idiot.
Treat this forum better. Treat us better.
WHAT fact don't matter?? If pointing out the facts makes me an azzhole, then thank you.. I'll take that with pride.
That poster claims to be an engineer, he should know better than they just dumped batteries in, and boom.. Anyone that has worked with old electric motors know that the grease turns to hard crap, that the brushes stick , and are junk, and with the battery cables full of acid fuzz wicked up the sheathing .. the electrical connections, most likely brass need to all be cleaned. etc.. I'm an azz for pointing out this!!!!!!!!!!!!!! but the ENGINEER that should know better claiming b/s isn't got it.. CLEARLY NEITHER OF YOU HAVE EVER BROUGHT A BRASS ERA VEHICLE BACK TO LIFE OR RESTORED ONE.. GAS OR OTHERWISE
[This message has been edited by E.Furgal (edited 09-17-2017).]
It's definitely a wierd thing to see so many people make so many terrible assumptions about sometging that inevitably is going to be common. The electric car is finally affordable and economical. You don't have to have voted Hillary, think every should have to drive one or think you're saving polar bears to justify one.
If you want to examine this from the tax angle, the tax never should have been tacked on to gasoline in the first place (hence why it is fair to not be paying it), electric cars will eventually be covertly taxed or the loss in taxes will turn into a real tax for everyone instead of a hidden tax that's not even reflected on the receipt. http://www.dmvnv.com/fuel.htm
Also, if you're an internet troll and you join the Nissan Leaf groups on Facebook, you can drop truth bombs all day in their conspiracy posts making them shed lots of salt.
[This message has been edited by jmbishop (edited 09-18-2017).]
Sorry but it's all pixie dust, rainbows and unicorn farts until the loss of revenue for road maintenance is figured out..................................FAIRLY and WITHOUT FURTHER INTRUSION IN OUR LIVES.
It's definitely a wierd thing to see so many people make so many terrible assumptions about sometging that inevitably is going to be common. The electric car is finally affordable and economical. You don't have to have voted Hillary, think every should have to drive one or think you're saving polar bears to justify one.
If you want to examine this from the tax angle, the tax never should have been tacked on to gasoline in the first place (hence why it is fair to not be paying it), electric cars will eventually be covertly taxed or the loss in taxes will turn into a real tax for everyone instead of a hidden tax that's not even reflected on the receipt. http://www.dmvnv.com/fuel.htm
Also, if you're an internet troll and you join the Nissan Leaf groups on Facebook, you can drop truth bombs all day in their conspiracy posts making them shed lots of salt.
Whether the fuel/road tax should have been applied for the upkeep of roads is not the question. Fuel taxes were intended to be used for building and maintaining roads. Won't say that is how it actually done but, that's what were told. So, assuming that's true, then those of us who are buying fuel and therefore paying fuel tax are paying and those who use electric vehicles are not.
I really don't care what energy source is used to propel a vehicle down the road but, no one should get a free ride. If 90% of the vehicles on our roads become electric then 10% of us will be paying to maintain those roads. I'm not anti-electric vehicle, I simply don't see them as a viable means of transportation for most of us at this point.
After doing a small amount of internet research, (if it's on the internet, you know it's true) The environmental impact of producing electric vehicles, maintaining and then disposing of them is much greater than advertised. So, all in all, we've got a ways to go before I see them being used by all of us. When that happens, then the roads will be crap unless a mileage tax or some other fair way to pay for roads is put in place.
It's definitely a wierd thing to see so many people make so many terrible assumptions about sometging that inevitably is going to be common. The electric car is finally affordable and economical. You don't have to have voted Hillary, think every should have to drive one or think you're saving polar bears to justify one.
If you want to examine this from the tax angle, the tax never should have been tacked on to gasoline in the first place (hence why it is fair to not be paying it), electric cars will eventually be covertly taxed or the loss in taxes will turn into a real tax for everyone instead of a hidden tax that's not even reflected on the receipt. http://www.dmvnv.com/fuel.htm
Also, if you're an internet troll and you join the Nissan Leaf groups on Facebook, you can drop truth bombs all day in their conspiracy posts making them shed lots of salt.
Affordable.. I don't call a subcompact car, that the sticker starts at mid to high 30's affordable.. same size Honda start at 16k .. basicly a 20k difference.
at 2.39 a gallon you get 8368.20 gallons. and at a Honda getting 34 mpg (they tend to do better) you'd have to drive the Honda 284518 thousand miles to use that amount of fuel.. affordable is um.. not the word I'd use.. Sorry I don't call cars with a 40-65mile range comparable to a sub compact gas car..
Also, if you're an internet troll and you join the Nissan Leaf groups on Facebook, you can drop truth bombs all day in their conspiracy posts making them shed lots of salt.
Go on the 2018 hot rod power tour in your LEAF.. you might make it from the start to the 2nd stop in 3-4 times the time it takes everyone else to go the 250+miles. Nissan claims a range of 107 miles,,(no heater, no a/c , no radio /etc running to get that range) and it take 21 HOURS AT 110V AND 6HOURS 220V to recharge it.. The tour will be over before you get to the 3rd stop.
If all you have to do is drive 25-50 miles a day and never ever need to go past that, it might be worth it if the price comes down.. But if you have to have a 2nd vehicle to go past that range, it fails .. Love to see it's range when towing a small trailer.. What power plant is your power from?
[This message has been edited by Keel (edited 09-18-2017).]
Sorry but it's all pixie dust, rainbows and unicorn farts until the loss of revenue for road maintenance is figured out..................................FAIRLY and WITHOUT FURTHER INTRUSION IN OUR LIVES.
Using my crystal ball, I see that everyone will pay another tax to cover the greenies lack of being taxed for road use/upkeep. Greenies as a group are liberals, and liberals love to have others foot the bill/cost.. So you know they not tax electric and/or hybrids. it be a new tax on electric bill so everyone can feel the pain.. The idea of saving the earth and all that is great, I'll jump on board when something comes along that truly does this, not just move the pollution from the end users vehicle.. to a power plant, and the end of life issues. until then.. sorry, not buying the hype.
.jpg)
