Pennock's Fiero Forum
  Totally O/T
  NASA: Replacing Knobs & Switches w/ Touchscreens

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Email This Page to Someone! | Printable Version


next newest topic | next oldest topic
NASA: Replacing Knobs & Switches w/ Touchscreens by Formula88
Started on: 11-08-2015 01:50 PM
Replies: 18 (636 views)
Last post by: 2.5 on 11-16-2015 09:37 AM
Formula88
Member
Posts: 53788
From: Raleigh NC
Registered: Jan 2001


Feedback score: (3)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 554
Rate this member

Report this Post11-08-2015 01:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Researchers on the International Space Station are looking at what occurs when knobs & switches in space are replaced by screens with swipes & taps


Seems like a normal progression of technology and there is a definite advantage to having software switches instead of having to wire up a physical switch for every function. However, as the video mentions, touch screen use requires fine motor skills. Part of the experiment is to determine if, and how much, fine motor skills degrade in long duration spaceflight and ways to mitigate it.

I'm also thinking that's fine for routine or non-critical stuff, but having the tactile feedback, especially on something that might need to be used in an emergency or with limited visibility, is important. A lot of modern cars use touch screens now for their entertainment systems and I don't care for them because I have to take my eyes off the road to use them. Most cars include steering wheel controls with tactile feedback for the most used controls but it's still a concern. Is the hardware something you need to be able to operate without directing 100% of your attention to it?
IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
Raydar
Member
Posts: 41416
From: Carrollton GA. Out in the... country.
Registered: Oct 1999


Feedback score:    (13)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 463
Rate this member

Report this Post11-08-2015 02:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sort of like the first digital dashes. Just because it can be done, doesn't mean it's a good idea.

The first thing that came to mind was when I tried to answer my Galaxy S3 wearing (very thin fabric) gloves. Ain't happen'. It's a capacitive screen. Requires bare fingertips.
Conversely, I could answer my old RAZR flip phone, even bundled up like Nanook.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 11-08-2015).]

IP: Logged
Doug85GT
Member
Posts: 10006
From: Sacramento CA USA
Registered: May 2003


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 127
Rate this member

Report this Post11-08-2015 03:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Doug85GTSend a Private Message to Doug85GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:

Sort of like the first digital dashes. Just because it can be done, doesn't mean it's a good idea.

The first thing that came to mind was when I tried to answer my Galaxy S3 wearing (very thin fabric) gloves. Ain't happen'. It's a capacitive screen. Requires bare fingertips.
Conversely, I could answer my old RAZR flip phone, even bundled up like Nanook.



Just FYI, you can set your S3 to answer by pressing the home button and hang up by pressing power. Settings >> Call >> Answering and Ending Calls

Then just check the boxes and from then on you can answer and hang up using those buttons. I do it myself. It is a lot easier than swiping to answer.
IP: Logged
California Kid
Member
Posts: 9541
From: Metro Detroit Area, Michigan
Registered: Jul 2001


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 274
Rate this member

Report this Post11-08-2015 03:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for California KidSend a Private Message to California KidEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Could create some very interesting situations, with things floating around in zero gravity in the cabin, might lead to some dangerous events.

[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 11-08-2015).]

IP: Logged
Formula88
Member
Posts: 53788
From: Raleigh NC
Registered: Jan 2001


Feedback score: (3)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 554
Rate this member

Report this Post11-08-2015 03:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by California Kid:

Could create some very interesting situations, with things floating around in zero gravity in the cabin, might lead to some dangerous events.



And if you limit it to only bare skin contact, it's useless if you're wearing gloves. Lots of challenges to making it work in all situations.
IP: Logged
Doug85GT
Member
Posts: 10006
From: Sacramento CA USA
Registered: May 2003


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 127
Rate this member

Report this Post11-08-2015 04:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Doug85GTSend a Private Message to Doug85GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Formula88:


And if you limit it to only bare skin contact, it's useless if you're wearing gloves. Lots of challenges to making it work in all situations.


They do make material that will register with capacitive touchscreens. I have a pair of gloves that I can use my phone while wearing. They are similar to these:

http://www.amazon.com/Vbige...1TME15VANGC4H KVQYN0K

I also have a few stylus pens that work great with my phone:
http://www.amazon.com/Teviw...&keywords=stylus+pen

[This message has been edited by Doug85GT (edited 11-08-2015).]

IP: Logged
hnthomps
Member
Posts: 5764
From: Columbia, SC
Registered: Jul 2003


Feedback score:    (18)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 50
Rate this member

Report this Post11-08-2015 04:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hnthompsSend a Private Message to hnthompsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The touch screen may not work well if you happen to be in a space suit for some reason such as an emergency involving loss of pressure. There is something to be said for using physical switches for important or safety related functions.

Nelson
IP: Logged
pokeyfiero
Member
Posts: 16233
From: Free America!
Registered: Dec 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 309
Rate this member

Report this Post11-08-2015 07:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pokeyfieroClick Here to visit pokeyfiero's HomePageSend a Private Message to pokeyfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I don't see it working.

Maybe one thing they can do is create a eye sight target system but that is just one thing and there are a lot of concerns.
IP: Logged
Raydar
Member
Posts: 41416
From: Carrollton GA. Out in the... country.
Registered: Oct 1999


Feedback score:    (13)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 463
Rate this member

Report this Post11-08-2015 07:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Doug85GT:


Just FYI, you can set your S3 to answer by pressing the home button and hang up by pressing power. Settings >> Call >> Answering and Ending Calls

Then just check the boxes and from then on you can answer and hang up using those buttons. I do it myself. It is a lot easier than swiping to answer.


Thanks for that. I'll look into it. It has never become enough of an issue to pursue on my own. (I'm just lazy that way. And haven't worn gloves enough times last year to make it matter. This year may be another story.)
IP: Logged
84fiero123
Member
Posts: 29950
From: farmington, maine usa
Registered: Oct 2004


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 325
Rate this member

Report this Post11-08-2015 07:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hnthomps:

The touch screen may not work well if you happen to be in a space suit for some reason such as an emergency involving loss of pressure. There is something to be said for using physical switches for important or safety related functions.

Nelson


Sometimes a switch is better for visual confirmation of the switch being set. those are also susceptible to things flying around the cabin in 0 gravity, thing is I have never seen anything flying around in the cabin unless they did it on purpose, experiment.

Amanda has one of those touch screen phones and even with bare fingers sometimes you have to push it several times to get it to work.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't



Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

IP: Logged
Imnuts
Member
Posts: 605
From: Dayton, Ohio, USA
Registered: Jun 2013


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post11-09-2015 06:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ImnutsSend a Private Message to ImnutsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Now when the console of screens go out they can pound on the side of it with their hand just like they do in the SyFy space movies.
IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
FIEROPHREK
Member
Posts: 4424
From: a dig
Registered: Mar 2004


Feedback score: (5)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 137
Rate this member

Report this Post11-09-2015 06:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FIEROPHREKSend a Private Message to FIEROPHREKEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The advantage of a switch is that you do not have to look at it to tell what it is and if it has been manipulated. Ever look at the cyclic grip and thrust grip of a Chinook? Each switch/button has a purpose build individual shape or texture to it to set it apart from another. Touch screens require the operator to visually see where they are putting their finger. I guess that is good though who knows. I'm sure you can argue both side of this as to why one is better than the other. The flat touch screens are much lighter and require less wiring than hundreds of individual switches. Also to be able to have a display that can be individually adjusted to display what ever the pilot or copilot wants to see is nice. New CH-47F Chinook helicopters have "glass" cockpits and they are nice to use. Being able to bring up navigation maps on one screen and aircraft information on another is a nice feature. The Chinook MFD's (multi function displays) Still have soft keys around the border of the screen so you can select a function, That is aligned with that soft key buy pressing it. There is still a lot going on though LOL



------------------
ARCHIES JUNK IS FASTER THAN SHAUNNA'S JUNK

12.3 is faster than a 13.2

[This message has been edited by FIEROPHREK (edited 11-09-2015).]

IP: Logged
2.5
Member
Posts: 43235
From: Southern MN
Registered: May 2007


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 184
Rate this member

Report this Post11-09-2015 09:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Maybe I'd prefer something a little more solid state, in space. But I'm no expert.
IP: Logged
pokeyfiero
Member
Posts: 16233
From: Free America!
Registered: Dec 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 309
Rate this member

Report this Post11-14-2015 09:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pokeyfieroClick Here to visit pokeyfiero's HomePageSend a Private Message to pokeyfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm wait for the mind control headsets from apple.
I know they will be behind a bit on the technology but at least they will just work right out of the box and that is what is important to me when I fly my spaceships.
IP: Logged
jetsnvettes2000
Member
Posts: 3311
From: Menasha,Wisconsin,USA
Registered: Dec 2009


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post11-14-2015 11:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jetsnvettes2000Send a Private Message to jetsnvettes2000Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Perhaps the engineers should play the game app Space Team. They will figure out real fast how touch screens can be faulty and confusing in a pinch.
IP: Logged
Jake_Dragon
Member
Posts: 33077
From: USA
Registered: Jan 2001


Feedback score: (5)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 399
Rate this member

Report this Post11-15-2015 12:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_DragonSend a Private Message to Jake_DragonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jetsnvettes2000:

Perhaps the engineers should play the game app Space Team. They will figure out real fast how touch screens can be faulty and confusing in a pinch.


Nothing to add, just like seeing our avatars bound together
IP: Logged
MidEngineManiac
Member
Posts: 29566
From: Some unacceptable view
Registered: Feb 2007


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 297
User Banned

Report this Post11-15-2015 01:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MidEngineManiacSend a Private Message to MidEngineManiacEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ever tried to use a touchscreen in an aircraft in turbulence? It's not fun. For a close simulation, try texting-and-driving on a bumpy gravel road with the phone/tablet in a dash mount. It will take you about 10 seconds to figure out why this is a bad idea. Glass cockpits are nice for the versatility, but I want hard switches, buttons and breakers even if they do weigh more.

The other factor is systems seperation. With seperation hard switches if one cuircuit goes bad I still have the rest, with touchscreen if it goes out I've just lost everything associated with it. Redundant systems will probably do the job but workload just went thru the roof to compensate (ie in IFR I don't want to be switching the remaining screen or 2 between engine, flight and navigation info
IP: Logged
RayOtton
Member
Posts: 3471
From: Cape Charles, VA, USA
Registered: Jul 2012


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 54
Rate this member

Report this Post11-15-2015 06:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RayOttonSend a Private Message to RayOttonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I hate touch screens.

About 15 years ago I had to renew my license and it turned out I had one point too many on my record. Picked up one too many speeding tickets when we were in the process of moving to Virginia.

I was informed at the DMV that I would have to take a special "written" test, about equal to a permit test. They gave me a booklet to study and told me to come back the next day. Since it's a 40 mile trip I asked to take the test that day.

The test comprised two parts. In part one you had to get 5 out of 5, part two was 80%. Why? Some nameless bureaucrat needed a job, that's why.

After reading through the simpleton booklet I stood in front of the touch screen and when the first question popped up I barely brushed the screen in the wrong place on my way to answering the first question.

Boom that was it, fail. And you couldn't retake the test until the next day.

@#$%^&*(*&*%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IP: Logged
2.5
Member
Posts: 43235
From: Southern MN
Registered: May 2007


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 184
Rate this member

Report this Post11-16-2015 09:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by pokeyfiero:

I'm wait for the mind control headsets from apple.
I know they will be behind a bit on the technology but at least they will just work right out of the box and that is what is important to me when I fly my spaceships.


Lol, I prefer mine fly themselves and I just stil and play games
IP: Logged

next newest topic | next oldest topic

All times are ET (US)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | Back To Main Page

Advertizing on PFF | Fiero Parts Vendors
PFF Merchandise | Fiero Gallery
Real-Time Chat | Fiero Related Auctions on eBay



Copyright (c) 1999, C. Pennock