A question/statement was put out there in a thread;
quote
Originally posted by Wichita But I know God hates the person who does not love his wife and divorces. According to Malachi 2:16.
He was immediately challenged on this, as "his own" interpretation of a verse. While this may be, it's also important to consider that some translations, for several reasons, from errors in translation to oversimplification of a concept that is otherwise difficult to explain in English (There are several Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek words that could be described this way). In fact, here are several translations of the verse in question:
So, a single translation may support the original thought that God could "hate" a person under certain circumstances, however, a parallel reading would show otherwise. This does not take into account the context of the chapter itself, much less the witness of the rest of the Bible, not the least of which is John 3:16, which would indicate that God loves everyone, from Mother Theresa to Adolph Hitler, and provided His Son as sacrifice for all who accept. We can guess, of these two historical figures, who did and who didn't.
So, if we'd like to discuss this further, then let's have at it!
Without having read all of the different versions... (I'm not a bible scholar anyway, so it really doesn't matter to me. But thanks for your time and effort.)
I was always taught "Hate the action, but love the person." Not that that's an easy thing to do. I was also taught that God's love is unconditional. For everyone. Works for me.
And no... I won't defend that teaching against any perceived discrepancies that people may feel like citing. Believe what you like. I don't care. I will do the same.
I understand where you're coming from, and, yes, He allowed the sacrifice of His Son unconditionally, so that any who are willing to accept are/will be forgiven.
And yes, love the sinner and hate the sin is right in line with Biblical teaching.
As to this thread, while I am unwavering in my faith, I do enjoy the intellectual exercise in the discussion of apparent contrasts between verses or in the various translations. I think that, in this case, there is illumination to be had in the comparison of the differing versions.
I understand where you're coming from, and, yes, He allowed the sacrifice of His Son unconditionally, so that any who are willing to accept are/will be forgiven.
And yes, love the sinner and hate the sin is right in line with Biblical teaching.
As to this thread, while I am unwavering in my faith, I do enjoy the intellectual exercise in the discussion of apparent contrasts between verses or in the various translations. I think that, in this case, there is illumination to be had in the comparison of the differing versions.
We don't all have the same definition of sin. I go by the 'no harm done' theology not any religious doctrine. No harm done, no sin.
We don't all have the same definition of sin. I go by the 'no harm done' theology not any religious doctrine. No harm done, no sin.
We don't all have the same definition of "harm' either. Perhaps you just want to do as *you* please as long as *you* can convince *yourself* that it didn't "harm" anyone. Very convenient that *you* get to decide when there is "harm" and when there isn't. People can convince themselves of almost anything for awhile I suppose.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 05-26-2015).]
are we still allow concubines ? you know like the old T guys did ? they use to throw them out with out GOD getting upset [Hagar+ Ismail ] I guess throwing out unwanted kids is ok too or you can just stone them [if drunk or disrespectful ] I guess slave girls are out do to local laws but bible laws were ok with slaves
are extra wives ok or not in addition to the old one ? how many did Solomon have a 1000 or so ?
god likes bad marriages to continue ?
I think tali-ban and ISIS get up to 3 but unsure on concubines
are we still allow concubines ? you know like the old T guys did ? they use to throw them out with out GOD getting upset [Hagar+ Ismail ] I guess throwing out unwanted kids is ok too or you can just stone them [if drunk or disrespectful ] I guess slave girls are out do to local laws but bible laws were ok with slaves
are extra wives ok or not in addition to the old one ? how many did Solomon have a 1000 or so ?
god likes bad marriages to continue ?
I think tali-ban and ISIS get up to 3 but unsure on concubines
Are *those* the sort of questions that are the first to come into *your* head rayb? How many women and slave girls you can have and if you can dispose of children? Don't you find that sort of thinking troubling?
Interesting Old Testament questions anyway. What are the New Testament answers?
Trying to make a moral equivalency argument about Christians and Muslim extremist terrorists can only begin IF you understand the theology, otherwise you just end up looking silly like you did there.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 05-26-2015).]
Are *those* the sort of questions that are the first to come into *your* head rayb? How many women and slave girls you can have and if you can dispose of children? Don't you find that sort of thinking troubling?
Interesting Old Testament questions anyway. What are the New Testament answers?
Trying to make a moral equivalency argument about Christians and Muslim extremist terrorists can only begin IF you understand the theology, otherwise you just end up looking silly like you did there.
can't or will not answer ?
all the thoughts are right out of the bible no need to make up stuff when the book is loaded with odd ideas
and moral equivalency argument about Christians and Muslim extremist terrorists if you credit the christians with resent reforms they get a bit ahead but over history they are about neck and neck for BS in the name of god and lets not forget jim jones or david K as end timers just like the ISIS nuts are
------------------ Question wonder and be wierd are you kind?
[This message has been edited by ray b (edited 05-26-2015).]
You seem confused. Christians doing bad things in the name of God aren't really Christians. Muslims killing in the name of Allah has alway been and always will be a part of their religion practiced by true believers.
We don't all have the same definition of "harm' either. Perhaps you just want to do as *you* please as long as *you* can convince *yourself* that it didn't "harm" anyone. Very convenient that *you* get to decide when there is "harm" and when there isn't. People can convince themselves of almost anything for awhile I suppose.
If I have to define 'harm' then everyone else has to define 'sin'. I find that my goal of no harm is far more better for me than going by someone elses definition of 'sin' For example when I was growing up in the Southern baptist church dancing was considered a sin. I don't know if it still is or if it was only in the church that I went to. I don't buy lots of religions versions of sin. I don't think that 'no harm' is all that hard to figure out. The 'golden rule' is a pretty good guide.
Yes it is. The ethic of reciprocity oft quoted to children; "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
It's a paraphrase of Jesus "Sermon on the Mount" as told to us in Matthew 7:12
"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets."
Restated in the Bible in one form or another over and over again:
Luke 6:31 - And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
Galatians 5:14 - For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
James 2:8 - If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Mark 12:31 - And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
Since the "Golden Rule" has already been defined for you and well codified in religion, (to be fair, not only in Christianity), perhaps logic would tell you that sin (harm) has also already been defined for you as well?
Or perhaps you still just want to do as *you* please as long as *you* can convince *yourself* that it didn't "harm" anyone and *you * are free to define harm and sin as *you* please? .......What a great way to fool yourself into thinking that you will never face any consequences of your own acts.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 05-27-2015).]
You seem confused. Christians doing bad things in the name of God aren't really Christians. Muslims killing in the name of Allah has alway been and always will be a part of their religion practiced by true believers.
Ray, I'm sorry you're lost. I'm sorry you have a skewed view of what Christianity is. My wife and I will pray for you. The literal definition of Christian is Christ like, or little Christ. It was used as derogatory term to mock followers of Jesus but it defined a belief in Christ so well Christians didn't reject the name.
Every verse in the Bible has context. The verse cited here seems to indicate that God hates the action, not the person. There are dozens of verses throughout the old and new testaments that speak of God's love for humanity. Here is a strong statement from Romans 8:38,39 NIV:
"For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Christians, for the most part, are good people. Maybe one day I will be a Christian, who knows.
Hi Wichita..I hope so, and only because I like seeing people find the joy that is possible when they become Christians. For me, Christianity hinges on the words of Jesus in Matthew 22:34-40:
quote
"Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question:
“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
Wichita..I like to imagine what kind of world we would have if everyone followed those two commandments. Wishing you all the best.
[This message has been edited by fogglethorpe (edited 05-28-2015).]
Ray, I'm sorry you're lost. I'm sorry you have a skewed view of what Christianity is. My wife and I will pray for you. The literal definition of Christian is Christ like, or little Christ. It was used as derogatory term to mock followers of Jesus but it defined a belief in Christ so well Christians didn't reject the name.
not lost just realized the scam that is religion early in life I attended sunday school until age 15
''I have seen their ways too often for my liking''
serious question what church does the claimed holy ghost attend/lead/control ? as I see lots of different cults but not god in any of them
------------------ Question wonder and be wierd are you kind?
[This message has been edited by ray b (edited 05-28-2015).]
Originally posted by ray b: what church does the claimed holy ghost attend/lead/control ?
You're actually making a incredibly valid point. The biblical church is the body of believers, not a organization. Having a meeting place and maintaining a building is something you do as a community but preaching a good christian tithes to a organization is not biblical.
1. Do you understand the difference between the Old Testament and New Testament and why they are separate?
quote
Originally posted by ray b: if you credit the christians with resent reforms they get a bit ahead but over history they are about neck and neck for BS in the name of god
2. Do you live in history or "resent" [sic] times?
and finally, 3. Do you actually want an answer to your questions or would you prefer to just argue?
