quote Originally posted by Patrick: When all is said and done, IMO nobody came close to the "resolve" that the Russian people demonstrated in WW2. It might be difficult for those of us in the west to acknowledge it, but the Russians simply refused (at any cost) to be overrun by the Germans.

A resolve that would not see them through in Afghanistan.
How tuff does that gotta' make Afghanistan?!

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: A resolve that would not see them through in Afghanistan. How tuff does that gotta' make Afghanistan?!

These folks had some trouble too:

330BC – Alexander the Great invades region including modern day Afghanistan and spends two years fighting and facing repeated rebellion.

667AD – Arab armies sweep into Afghan territory, but only partially subdue locals and face frequent revolts.

1842 – First Anglo-Afghan War sees British occupy Kabul which ends in disastrous retreat from Kabul in which 4,500 soldiers and 12,000 camp followers are massacred, except a sole survivor and a handful of prisoners, trying to get back to India.

1880 – Second Anglo-Afghan War. Britain invades Afghanistan again and fights two years of costly battles including a humiliating defeat at Maiwand.

1919 – Third Anglo Afghan War sees Afghanistan effectively regain independence.

1979 – Soviet Union sends in troops.

WTF were we thinking? There must have been a better way.

Santayana knew the history of Afghanistan, didn't he?

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: A resolve that would not see them through in Afghanistan. How tuff does that gotta' make Afghanistan?!

Boonie, the resolve of the Russian people was absolutely steadfast while protecting their homeland from German invasion. It's not difficult to believe that Russian conscripts sent to fight in a foreign land were not going to show anywhere near the same resolve. Good info HERE on the Soviet-Afghan war.

quote When the Soviets invaded they did not expect to have to mount a full-scale counter-insurgency campaign themselves. They had gone in with only four motor rifle divisions (MRDs), and one and a half air assault divisions (AADs) of paratroopers. These MRDs had been understrength cadre formations, fleshed out with hastily recalled reservists. They were composed of troops ill-trained for any war, let alone an anti-guerrilla one, and they arrived with obsolescent weapons and equipment, some dating back to WW2. The Soviet soldier in Afghanistan proved to be a different man from his father in the 'Great Patriotic War', as they called World War 2. Then, the Soviets were defending their motherland, the Germans had killed or captured millions, overrun vast stretches of Russia and driven to the gates of Moscow. The Soviet troops fought with the ferocity and determination of cornered animals. They had no other option, theirs was a battle for personal and national survival; there is no greater cause. In Afghanistan things were completely different. The modern Soviet soldier is a conscript; even his sergeants are the same. He is compelled to enlist at eighteen for two years. As a conscript recruit his life is normally miserable, often degrading.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 12-17-2014).]

Beautiful Birds:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEt68DojIZo