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Monkeys Building Fire And Roasting Marshmallows? Why Not, After Reading This... by Boondawg
Started on: 11-05-2014 08:56 PM
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Last post by: Boondawg on 11-14-2014 11:31 PM
Boondawg
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Report this Post11-05-2014 08:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BoondawgSend a Private Message to BoondawgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
In 1974 Jane Goodall observed a social rift in a community of chimpanzees turn into a violent 4 year civil war for territory involving kidnapping, rape & murder, changing her perception of chimpanzees.
It is known as the “Gombe Chimpanzee War”:

 
quote
The Gombe Chimpanzee War (also known as the "Four-Year War" of Gombe), lasting from 1974 to 1978, was a violent conflict between two communities of chimpanzees in Gombe Stream National Park, in Tanzania. The belligerent groups were the Kasakela and the Kahama, which occupied territories in the northern and southern areas of the park, respectively.[1] The two had previously been a single, unified community, but by 1974 researcher Jane Goodall, who had been observing the community, first noticed the chimps dividing themselves into northern and southern sub-groups. Later computer-aided analysis of Goodall's notes would reveal that the social rift between the two groups had been present as early as 1971.

The Kahama group, in the south, consisted of six adult males (among them the chimpanzees known to Goodall as "Hugh", "Charlie", and "Goliath"), three adult females and their young, and an adolescent male (known as "Sniff"). The larger Kasakela group, meanwhile, consisted of twelve adult females and their young, and eight adult males.

The War:

The first outbreak of violence occurred on January 7, 1974, when a party of six adult Kasakela males attacked and killed "Godi", a young Kahama male, who had been feeding in a tree. This was the first time that any of the chimpanzees had been seen to deliberately kill a fellow chimp.

Over the next four years, all six of the adult male members of the Kahama were killed by the Kasakela. Of the female Kahama, one was killed, two went missing, and three were beaten, raped, and kidnapped by the Kasakela. The Kasakela then succeeded in taking over the Kahama's former territory.

These territorial gains were not permanent, however; with the Kahama gone, the Kasakela's territory now butted up directly against the territory of another chimpanzee community, called the Kalande. Cowed by the superior strength and numbers of the Kalande, as well as a few violent skirmishes along their border, the Kasakela quickly gave up much of their new territory.

Effects on Goodall:

The outbreak of the war came as a disturbing shock to Goodall, who had previously considered chimpanzees to be, although similar to human beings, "rather 'nicer'" in their behavior. Coupled with the observation in 1975 of cannibalistic infanticide by a high-ranking female in the community, the violence of the Gombe war first revealed to Goodall the "dark side" of chimpanzee behavior. She was profoundly disturbed by this revelation; in her memoir Through a Window: My Thirty Years with the Chimpanzees of Gombe, she wrote:

"For several years I struggled to come to terms with this new knowledge. Often when I woke in the night, horrific pictures sprang unbidden to my mind—Satan [one of the apes], cupping his hand below Sniff's chin to drink the blood that welled from a great wound on his face; old Rodolf, usually so benign, standing upright to hurl a four-pound rock at Godi's prostrate body; Jodeo tearing a strip of skin from Dé's thigh; Figan, charging and hitting, again and again, the stricken, quivering body of Goliath, one of his childhood heroes."

Legacy:

When Goodall reported on the events of the Gombe War, her account of a naturally-occurring war between chimpanzees was not universally believed. At the time, scientific models of human and animal behavior virtually never overlapped. Some scientists accused her of excessive anthropomorphism; others suggested that her presence, and her practice of feeding the chimpanzees, had created violent conflict in a naturally peaceful society. However, later research using less intrusive methods confirmed that chimpanzee societies in their natural state can and do go to war.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gombe_Chimpanzee_War
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maryjane
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Report this Post11-05-2014 10:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
They murder and rape--without guns?
Whoda thunk?
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jmbishop
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Report this Post11-05-2014 10:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jmbishopSend a Private Message to jmbishopEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
We clearly need stronger rock control, this kind of violence is unacceptable.
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84fiero123
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Report this Post11-05-2014 11:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jmbishop:

We clearly need stronger rock control, this kind of violence is unacceptable.


definitely, no one with a criminal record or under 21 !

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't



Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

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Boondawg
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Report this Post11-06-2014 12:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BoondawgSend a Private Message to BoondawgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I think the "rape" idea is.....challenging.
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maryjane
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Report this Post11-06-2014 12:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
There is a mis-conception that rape doesn't take place outside the human species, that animals mate only when the female is in heat, but this is untrue in many species. Certainly happens in non-human primates and happens in the equine world as well as with bovines.
Anyone who has ever been around donkeys knows to never put an intact jack (non castrated) in with cattle. The jack will mount and penetrate to ejaculation a cow several times/week if not more often. I have witnessed this myself years ago when I lived in La. Poor impaled cows would be running for dear life, with the donkey mounted and running along on it's rear legs.

Happens in canines as well--male to male and male to female.
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Tony Kania
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Report this Post11-06-2014 12:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sorry Boonie, but I am going with Jane on this one. She was actually there.
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Boondawg
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Report this Post11-06-2014 08:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BoondawgSend a Private Message to BoondawgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:

There is a mis-conception that rape doesn't take place outside the human species...


I was thinking more along the lines of rape being a matter of consent (i.e. against their will).
Who's the complainant?
Does the animal being "raped" (not in heat?) turn to fight off their "attacker"?

I'm thinking rape is a human construct...

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 11-06-2014).]

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maryjane
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Report this Post11-06-2014 09:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes, the animal being "raped" does turn on their assailant from what I have witnessed--or try to flee. I have also seen videos in which large female felines would fight to the death to avoid being bred by a male not of their liking or choosing.
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Report this Post11-06-2014 09:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BoondawgSend a Private Message to BoondawgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:

Yes, the animal being "raped" does turn on their assailant from what I have witnessed--or try to flee. I have also seen videos in which large female felines would fight to the death to avoid being bred by a male not of their liking or choosing.


That indeed changes things.
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Report this Post11-14-2014 11:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
http://uncovercalifornia.co...y-father-more-babies
If not rape, at least coercion.

 
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The researchers studied the effect of male aggression towards females, when the females were sexually receptive and when they were not.

The researchers found that male aggression at the time of a female's sexually receptive periods led to more regular mating but not bigger paternity success.

High-ranking males that were aggressive toward females when those females were not sexually receptive were rewarded for their bullying with more offspring.

From the findings, it was found that long-term patterns of intimidation let high-ranking males to boost their reproductive success, offering possibly the first genetic evidence of sexual coercion as an adaptive strategy in any social mammal.
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Boondawg
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Report this Post11-14-2014 11:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BoondawgSend a Private Message to BoondawgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:
If not rape, at least coercion.


 
quote
The researchers studied the effect of male aggression towards females, when the females were sexually receptive and when they were not.

The researchers found that male aggression at the time of a female's sexually receptive periods led to more regular mating but not bigger paternity success.

High-ranking males that were aggressive toward females when those females were not sexually receptive were rewarded for their bullying with more offspring.

From the findings, it was found that long-term patterns of intimidation let high-ranking males to boost their reproductive success, offering possibly the first genetic evidence of sexual coercion as an adaptive strategy in any social mammal.
http://uncovercalifornia.co...y-father-more-babies


Very interesting.
Thanx.
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