Ever have problems with accuracy with Haynes and Chilton manuals? I just bought a Haynes manual for my stepdaughters 96 Saturn and first time I used it the info was not correct. Now I have to go back and pull the spark plugs out, re- gap them to .040 and then put them back in. ( not a major deal but still annoying) Turns out every year has the same spark plug gap (.040) but for done reason the Haynes manual shows the 96 Saturn to be at .060, so that's what I gapped the plugs at. I should have been suspicious from the get go but I didnt start questioning the odd year plug gap till after I put them in. I have already left a message with their tech guy to call me back. We will see...
For my own personal cars (Fiero & Reatta) I have FSM's but for general maintenance on my stepdaughters car a Chiltons or Haynes will suffice. I just get a little irritated they can't get basic info like spark plug gaps correct. Kit
You do know there is a label under the hood that give the plug gap right?
every manual I have ever read I have found a mistake in, everyone even the factory service manuals. Most times they are minor mistakes though like that and easily checked on the net.
Steve
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't
You do know there is a label under the hood that give the plug gap right?
every manual I have ever read I have found a mistake in, everyone even the factory service manuals. Most times they are minor mistakes though like that and easily checked on the net.
Steve
You know, some have the spark plug gap and some don't. Well,well, it turns out that you are correct. I assumed it would not be there. I went and checked under the hood and not only are you correct but the gap indicated is .060 In other words, I am wrong and the Haynes manual is right. What threw me off is A) the 96 Saturn engine is the only year with a .060 gap and B) when I called Winchester Auto they told me the gap is .040 and not .060. Thanks everyone for their input! Kit
You know, some have the spark plug gap and some don't. Well,well, it turns out that you are correct. I assumed it would not be there. I went and checked under the hood and not only are you correct but the gap indicated is .060 In other words, I am wrong and the Haynes manual is right. What threw me off is A) the 96 Saturn engine is the only year with a .060 gap and B) when I called Winchester Auto they told me the gap is .040 and not .060. Thanks everyone for their input! Kit
Now just to mess with you even more, are you absolutely sure it is the original engine? I mean the car is 18 years old and it could have had the engine replaced with a newer motor.
That is always a possibility but believe it or not I bought the car from the original owner and he kept detailed records of everything! He had the original window sticker from Sunnyvale Saturn! Not only that, this guy kept a record of the date & mileage when he waxed the car! Kit
If you're going to own a car for some time, and plan on working on it yourself, it's always a good idea to just invest in a factory service manual for that particular car. The information gained from a FSM far exceeds that found in a lesser book, and pays for itself in short order.
The only use a Haynes/Chilton book would ever serve in my garage would be a door stop.
A TSB was issued for this problem back in 1996. The underhood sticker is wrong. They changed the gap to .060 in 1996, but it caused misfires and drivability problems so they changed it back to .040. A new sticker should have been applied, but that assumes the owner back then had issues.
A TSB was issued for this problem back in 1996. The underhood sticker is wrong. They changed the gap to .060 in 1996, but it caused misfires and drivability problems so they changed it back to .040. A new sticker should have been applied, but that assumes the owner back then had issues.
You should gap your plugs at .040".
BTW.....the TSB is #96-T-25
From the OP if the original owner was so anal as to have wrote done when he waxed the car I can not see him having at least written down that he had to change plug gap or about the TSB. You might want to look at his records a little closer in that case, OP. If you have no drivable problems related to this TSB I would stay with the original plug gap rather than change it providing it runs fine. as the TSB says,
IMPORTANT:
To identify the gap of the spark plug installed in the engine, refer to "Vehicle Emissions Control Information Label" (identified on the vehicle as the "Saturn Power Module" label), located on the radiator core support.
^
If the "Spark Plug Gap" specification on the label is 0.060 inches, the engine does not have the new spark plugs installed, and you should proceed with this bulletin.
^
If the "Spark Plug Gap" specification on the label is 0.040 inches, new spark plugs and a new vehicle emissions control information label have been installed. Refer to the "1996 Revised Powertrain Controls Service Manual" for diagnostic information.
I am more confused than ever now. The recall says that if the underhood sticker indicates .060, then proceed with recall. (proceed with what??) My under hood sticker does say .060. So then, I am supposed to gap them at .060? I'm more confused than a squirrel in the middle of an eight lane highway. And what about the plugs I chose ? (Bosch 8100's , Double Platinum) Are they ok to use ?
[This message has been edited by Kitskaboodle (edited 07-06-2014).]
I am more confused than ever now. The recall says that if the underhood sticker indicates .060, then proceed with recall. (proceed with what??) My under hood sticker does say .060. So then, I am supposed to gap them at .060? I'm more confused than a squirrel in the middle of an eight lane highway. And what about the plugs I chose ? (Bosch 8100's , Double Platinum) Are they ok to use ?
Proceed with setting them back to 040, per the recall.
Proceed with setting them back to 040, per the recall.
Not actually a recall, just a TSB, Technical Service Bulletin for the techs at the dealer so they can just slap a new sticker on and regap the plugs to .40, now if the original owner was as anal as you say, look threw his notes about what he did. I am betting he never had any problems with it being gapped at .60.
Did you check the gap on the original plugs you pulled out? if so what was the gap? I would go with whatever the gap was from the set you pulled out.
Just my opinion as someone who has done all their own work on his own cars since I was 16, I am now 59.
edit to add all recalls owners are notified by mail, snail mail back then and even now, call any local Saturn dealer and give them your cars vin number and all the info you have given us, if the car is running bad and any other info you have. the dealer will tell you what the proper gap should be.
Steve
[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 07-06-2014).]
Back in the OLDEN DAYS....before Google,Forums and it may be hard to believe even before the Internet....We had to use those books .
And this one for a Nissan 300 z turbo:
Had me raking my brain when trying to set the time after changing the timing belt....After bout a week I did the operation with the marks in Oppisite directions and she puuured to life.....
What I hate about the Haynes manual is when there are several models that fall in the same manual. Whenever they provide a picture, they only show one model, and then just say "other models are similar." Yeeeah rrrright!
Not actually a recall, just a TSB, Technical Service Bulletin for the techs at the dealer so they can just slap a new sticker on and regap the plugs to .40, now if the original owner was as anal as you say, look threw his notes about what he did. I am betting he never had any problems with it being gapped at .60.
Did you check the gap on the original plugs you pulled out? if so what was the gap? I would go with whatever the gap was from the set you pulled out.
Just my opinion as someone who has done all their own work on his own cars since I was 16, I am now 59.
edit to add all recalls owners are notified by mail, snail mail back then and even now, call any local Saturn dealer and give them your cars vin number and all the info you have given us, if the car is running bad and any other info you have. the dealer will tell you what the proper gap should be.
Steve
Yes, I did check the gap on the plugs I took out and they were .040ish. I need to double check them though. I didn't check them thoroughly. By the way, the plugs I took out were regular Autolite resistor plugs, not Platinum. The engine seems to run fine at .060 but I would feel better re-gapping them to .040. Lastly, this is my stepdaughters car and she has all the records and she has been out of town the last two days so I will have to look at the owners records later .
Back in the OLDEN DAYS....before Google,Forums and it may be hard to believe even before the Internet....We had to use those books .
.
They had these places called libraries. We couldn't check out the reference section, but they had the 'real' books, and a photocopier. ( unless you just stole them. Their security system was trivial to bypass )
Yes, I did check the gap on the plugs I took out and they were .040ish. I need to double check them though. I didn't check them thoroughly. By the way, the plugs I took out were regular Autolite resistor plugs, not Platinum. The engine seems to run fine at .060 but I would feel better re-gapping them to .040. Lastly, this is my stepdaughters car and she has all the records and she has been out of town the last two days so I will have to look at the owners records later .
After all the info that came to light in this thread about the TSB I would go with .40 as well, especially if the car was running fine before you changed them at that setting.
When she does get back in town ask her about the records and if you can take a look at them. I can understand a regular mechanic at a non dealer shop just changing the plugs and not bothering to mention anything to the customer or getting the sticker changed. only a dealer would have those if I am not mistaken. but then it also could have been done at the dealer and they were out of stickers for that particular car.
Now I have to go back and pull the spark plugs out, re- gap them to .040 and then put them back in. ( not a major deal but still annoying) Turns out every year has the same spark plug gap (.040) but for done reason the Haynes manual shows the 96 Saturn to be at .060, so that's what I gapped the plugs at. I should have been suspicious from the get go but I didnt start questioning the odd year plug gap till after I put them in. I have already left a message with their tech guy to call me back. We will see...
are you absolutely sure it is the original engine? 
