Depends on the child and their upbringing i guess. I also grew up in a household that valued independent thinking and despised conformity, so that factored into things as well.
For what its worth, I wasn't trying to imply that i stopped ignoring most people "because i knew".. it was a byproduct of being smarter than most and recognizing it early on that 'people are dumb', and that i wasn't just some 'dumb kid' ( in response to the 'immature kid' accusation earlier. I wasn't.. ). Back then i would use my gifts to help others.. Now days, not so much as i dont have the energy ( or desire ) for that. I tried to do my part for humanity, but in the end it was a lot like pissing in a river. ( yes, i'm a patti smith fan too )
Look, I'm trying not to be a jerk here, I think maybe you mean well... but what I'm reading above is... low motivation and lack of self-esteem masked by condescension.
I think the important part of this is that people who own a company should have the right to run it the way they wish. It is their right and should not be the right of a government. If women want their boss to buy them abortions, work for someone that believes in killing babies, the government should not be able to force people to pay for women to kill their children.
I think the important part of this is that people who own a company should have the right to run it the way they wish. It is their right and should not be the right of a government. If women want their boss to buy them abortions, work for someone that believes in killing babies, the government should not be able to force people to pay for women to kill their children.
I agree in principle, but there are limits. You cant make handicapped employees climb 2 flights of stairs to get to the single bathroom in your building that you refuse to clean or have functioning.. ( for example ).
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Look, I'm trying not to be a jerk here, I think maybe you mean well... but what I'm reading above is... low motivation and lack of self-esteem masked by condescension.
Ill give you lack of motivation ( tho i think i said that earlier, just in a different way ), as i dont have the motivation to 'make a difference' anymore. I used to, but it was 'taken' many years ago for reasons i dont want to get into, and are not really relevant anyway. I have been condescending my entire life, so that isn't some sort of 'new' thing here
( even the career path i chose, to help and enable others to help has grown thin and im over it. .It's time to ditch the entire concept and do things for myself. and only myself. and that route is now being prepared )
[This message has been edited by Nurb432 (edited 07-06-2014).]
I am not changing the subject. You are the one deflecting. You don't even have any proof that the money they pay their Chinese suppliers does indeed fund abortions. You also can not say that Hobby Lobby even knows that.
Hobby Lobby is not supposed to know what medical treatments their employees seek out, either. So, stop deflecting...
I think the important part of this is that people who own a company should have the right to run it the way they wish. It is their right and should not be the right of a government. If women want their boss to buy them abortions, work for someone that believes in killing babies, the government should not be able to force people to pay for women to kill their children.
Originally posted by Nurb432: Mine is not hate. its cold hard facts and reality. .
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Originally posted by Nurb432: i helped individuals. But over time i saw how ineffective it was in the large scheme of things, so it wasn't worth continuing.
I have felt that from time to time, but decided to go on anyway. Differences are made no matter how small.
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Originally posted by Nurb432: What i said is i think most people are **** morons. And i treat them as such, as they deserve. Zero respect or patience.
Indifference. Giving up. Burning out.
This was your choice, its not over, you can change that choice at any time.
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 07-07-2014).]
I heard on the TV Sunday talk shows that the Democrats will use this case to say Republicans are taking away your birth control and all the uninformed single women and uninformed women in general will all vote for Democrats. My niece already believes this, I tried to set her straight but she believes her dumb friends and I just let it go as there is no convincing a dumb person otherwise.
I heard on the TV Sunday talk shows that the Democrats will use this case to say Republicans are taking away your birth control ...women in general will all vote for Democrats. My niece already believes this, I tried to set her straight but she believes her dumb friends and I just let it go as there is no convincing a dumb person otherwise.
Hobby Lobby is not supposed to know what medical treatments their employees seek out, either. So, stop deflecting...
And they don't, or won't. They just know what they pay for as party of a policy. I don't see why people are having a hard time with these very simple concepts.
Sadly, the media has done an excellent job of convincing the masses that the HL case either has or will make birth control illegal and that HL has somehow prohibited it's employees from accessing any kinds of birth control. I suppose we're now supposed to equate access with free.
And they don't, or won't. They just know what they pay for as party of a policy. I don't see why people are having a hard time with these very simple concepts.
Hmm, they are paying into an insurance pool. Which means, HL money is paying for abortions, no matter what. Unless they are part of some "christian insurance pool".
Hmm, they are paying into an insurance pool. Which means, HL money is paying for abortions, no matter what. Unless they are part of some "christian insurance pool".
Not exactly. States can opt out and 15 States have done so. Also, There's the Hyde Amendment to consider and all exchanges have to include a plan that doesn't pay for abortions. Even plans that do cover abortions have to keep costs for that service separate and make twin offers, one with and one without abortion coverage..
Sadly, the media has done an excellent job of convincing the masses that the HL case either has or will make birth control illegal and that HL has somehow prohibited it's employees from accessing any kinds of birth control. I suppose we're now supposed to equate access with free.
I really think the people should be able to sue the media for misinforming people. If nothing else make it where a person cannot be a part of the media if they are found guilty of spreading misinformation. I think it would be a worthy thing to fix.
In my version not working for "media" would mean working for any major news, or entertainment source in any way, including through another company as an independent contractor. No free visits etc. You are not to be on a camera owned by a news or entertainment company, not in a newspaper, or writing articles for an online paper.
I really think the people should be able to sue the media for misinforming people. If nothing else make it where a person cannot be a part of the media if they are found guilty of spreading misinformation. I think it would be a worthy thing to fix.
In my version not working for "media" would mean working for any major news, or entertainment source in any way, including through another company as an independent contractor. No free visits etc. You are not to be on a camera owned by a news or entertainment company, not in a newspaper, or writing articles for an online paper.
Brad
Brad, while I understand your reasoning for this we do live in a free country that is governed by our constitution. One of the requirements for maintaining our freedom is to be able to understand what is happening around us so we can make proper judgements. In a truly free country with people who are not brainwashed, we would reject this type of scurrilous reporting. And many are. That is why their circulation is dropping for major newspapers. That is also why the mainstream media like the alphabet letter news shows are losing the ratings that they are. Unfortunately there are still a whole lot of people in this country that will not expend the effort to really find out what is happening or maybe they just can't read and comprehend anymore.
I have seen so many articles lately where someone wants to restrict someones right to dissent that it scares me. It used to be Liberals who would claim that the Conservatives were the ones who would burn books. But, from what I have seen and heard lately it is the Left wing Liberals who want to shut down dissent and keep opposing views from ever being said. An example of this is the whole Anthropogenic Global Warming crowd where they will not even let people who have a different opinion speak or have access to news outlets.
I would not ever want to keep others from being able to dissent. But, I still would want to have the ability to dissent myself, such as in this case where one side is lying the whole time. Let freedom ring. Let people have discourse. Let ideas flow. And the truth will out.
Not exactly. States can opt out and 15 States have done so. Also, There's the Hyde Amendment to consider and all exchanges have to include a plan that doesn't pay for abortions. Even plans that do cover abortions have to keep costs for that service separate and make twin offers, one with and one without abortion coverage..
So, we have one insurance company offers two plans... the resources to run the two plans will still have connections. And what about those employees who work for the insurance company... oh no.... HL money that goes to those employees, via the insurance company... what if one of them has an abortion. Lets take this further, what about the company that paints the line parking lot. What if one of them pays for an abortion. What if a contractor pays to have an abortion? Maybe HL should screen all employees, contractors, employees of contractors, and all related family members, before doing business with these people, so as to make sure their money will not be used in ways they do not agree with. Oh wait, that sounds silly.... but I would think that if they are true to their beliefs, they should do all they can to see them through.
Well, I guess HL needs to stop using money, that's it... that's the solution.... and they need to stop paying people so they can sell their communist/heathen products
(Oh wait... no, that won't happen. HL owners need that money to fund their political agenda.)
[This message has been edited by jaskispyder (edited 07-08-2014).]
So, we have one insurance company offers two plans... the resources to run the two plans will still have connections. And what about those employees who work for the insurance company... oh no.... HL money that goes to those employees, via the insurance company... what if one of them has an abortion. Lets take this further, what about the company that paints the line parking lot. What if one of them pays for an abortion. What if a contractor pays to have an abortion? Maybe HL should screen all employees, contractors, employees of contractors, and all related family members, before doing business with these people, so as to make sure their money will not be used in ways they do not agree with. Oh wait, that sounds silly.... but I would think that if they are true to their beliefs, they should do all they can to see them through.
Well, I guess HL needs to stop using money, that's it... that's the solution.... and they need to stop paying people so they can sell their communist/heathen products
(Oh wait... no, that won't happen. HL owners need that money to fund their political agenda.)
Let me sum it up for you, in a nice media bite package....it shows how stupid the HL argument is. HL wants to control employees, by saying it is about HL money used (through a third party) on products and procedures the CORPORATION doesn't religiously approve of... yet... other HL money is spent without that same consideration, through another third party.
I have to ask this question. Would you even care about this case were it not based on religious objections? Just curious.
I don't believe it is about religion. It is political. It is a way for HL owners to try and stick it to Obama and the Dems. If it was about religious beliefs, HL wouldn't be doing business with China, nor would they contribute to employee 401K plans (if you believe their argument about corporate money being spent on things the corporation does not believe in -- based on religion).
And if was George Bush in the WH instead of Barrack Obama? I don't think they're trying to "stick it to" Obama as much as I believe they're objecting to something the government, thanks to the recently-implemented ACA, is forcing them to do. According to the ACA, they HAVE to cover twenty different kinds of birth control. They were already covering sixteen of them before the ACA was implemented. They object to four of them. But before the ACA, they weren't being forced to cover anything. Much less things they object to religiously. Now if you'll excuse me, I found out that the plastic that is used to make the aglets of the stocker in the grocery store I shop at is purchased by a company that has an employee who cheated on his taxes last year. So because if that employee's actions, I will no longer be shopping at that grocery store.
And if was George Bush in the WH instead of Barrack Obama? I don't think they're trying to "stick it to" Obama as much as I believe they're objecting to something the government, thanks to the recently implemented ACA, is forcing them to do. According to the ACA, they HAVE to supply twenty different kinds of birth control. They object to four of them. But before the ACA, they weren't being forced to cover anything. Much less things they object to religiously. If you'll excuse me, I found out that the plastic that is used to make the aglets of the stocker in the grocery store I shop at is purchased by a company that has an employee who cheated on his taxes last year. So because if that employee's actions, I will no longer be shopping at that grocery store.
So, why are they not objecting to the 401K plans and the terrible conditions in China?
As for Bush... can't talk about that, as it wouldn't have happened (passage of ACA). Now, we could talk about Romney-care and I wonder what HL is required to pay for in Mass.
(Yes I am calling them out on how they apply actions their beliefs. HL seems that they believe they can pick and choose how to use their religion. I am sure I will get a few more neg. ratings, but if HL owners were true believers, I would expect them to have consistent actions. Oh well.... I know that people want this to be about religious freedoms, but I see more motives here, and they are coming out as political, not purely religious.)
[This message has been edited by jaskispyder (edited 07-08-2014).]
So, why are they not objecting to the 401K plans and the terrible conditions in China?
As for Bush... can't talk about that, as it wouldn't have happened (passage of ACA). Now, we could talk about Romney-care and I wonder what HL is required to pay for in Mass.
So I'm guessing you don't buy anything made in China or anything made from products made in China? For all we know, HL could very well be actively objecting to the things going on over there. But why would that make news when an evil and sanctimonious corporation can be raked over the coals for making birth control illegal for all women? It wouldn't fit the narrative. I think it's safe to say that the news programs are most likely not reporting everything about this case. Just what will possibly increase the ratings.
Originally posted by jaskispyder: So, why are they not objecting to the 401K plans and the terrible conditions in China?
Cant it just be about their own freedom regardless of political parties? Baby steps, you dont even seem to like them drawing a line at all. China isnt free and doesnt have the rights our founding documents grant us.
And you're being silly trying to draw extreme connections like the IRS tracing money laundering because you're so determined to make it about Obama and not their religious views. You're grasping at straws.
I buy from China. I am not sure why my buying habits are in question.
"Actively objecting"? Maybe, but I highly doubt it. I would think that if they were serious about objecting, they wouldn't buy products from China. That would be "active"
To me, it isn't about birth control and who has access, because people can buy it. It is about the inconsistencies of HL actions.
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Originally posted by whadeduck:
So I'm guessing you don't buy anything made in China or anything made from products made in China? For all we know, HL could very well be actively objecting to the things going on over there. But why would that make news when an evil and sanctimonious corporation can be raked over the coals for making birth control illegal for all women? It wouldn't fit the narrative. I think it's safe to say that the news programs are most likely not reporting everything about this case. Just what will possibly increase the ratings.
Cant it just be about their own freedom regardless of political parties? Baby steps, you dont even seem to like them drawing a line at all. China isnt free and doesnt have the rights our founding documents grant us.
So, why does HL give money to PAC, if it is just about their own freedom?
I would think that HL would want the same rights for people in China, as here in the US. Christianity knows no borders. HL should apply their same religious beliefs to every aspect of their business. If not, you should be asking why the double standard and what other motives could they have. Are we not to question the motives of HL? Or because the use of "religion" is brought up, we can't ask questions?
Your buying habits are questioned because I'm sure that there's someone doing something you don't like ten tiers down the corporate chain if you did enough research. Yet you still buy the products you do. If you reach far enough, as you have here, you can find something objectionable about any company in any country. Besides, It's the Chinese government that has the terrible abortion practices and lack of human rights. Not the people. So why punish the people of a Chinese business when they're not the ones making the laws over there. That would be like refusing to buy a Jaguar because you disagree with Parliament. I don't think HL is doing business directly with the Chinese government.
So, why does HL give money to PAC, if it is just about their own freedom?
I would think that HL would want the same rights for people in China, as here in the US. Christianity knows no borders. HL should apply their same religious beliefs to every aspect of their business. If not, you should be asking why the double standard and what other motives could they have. Are we not to question the motives of HL? Or because the use of "religion" is brought up, we can't ask questions?
Thats still about their freedom, what they spend on.
Like I said before, they shouldnt have to answer for it, or explain it at all. The gov is trying to force something it should not.
Your buying habits are questioned because I'm sure that there's someone doing something you don't like ten tiers down the corporate chain if you did enough research. Yet you still buy the products you do. If you reach far enough, as you have here, you can find something objectionable about any company in any country. Besides, It's the Chinese government that has the terrible abortion practices and lack of human rights. Not the people. So why punish the people of a Chinese business when they're not the ones making the laws over there. That would be like refusing to buy a Jaguar because you disagree with Parliament. I don't think HL is doing business directly with the Chinese government.
If I believed as a true Christian, abortion is wrong, then it doesn't matter where it happens. It is still wrong. Now, if I was buying a product made in a country, knowing that the money may go to someone who would get an abortion, I would have to question m,y buying habits and ask if I can justify it when I stand to be judged.
Same goes for money set aside for 401K. If the money I paid out went to support abortion pharmaceuticals (their manufacturers), I would want to make sure that I either didn't pay to the 401K, or the investment fund didn't include such companies.
But, what we have is a company (entity) that is not applying the same religious standards to all activities. The corporation also funds PACs, which now takes the idea of "this is just about their own freedoms" to a new level. They are actively funding (spreading their beliefs). This is where it became political. No longer is it about their own freedoms, it is about making political changes that will impact others (the anti-gay legislation in AZ, comes to mind).
It is interesting, and sad that people don't want to see this part of HL. They want to think of it as HL against Obama and how Obama is trying to destroy christian values. Yet, there is more behind the scenes and HL is just another deep.
If I believed as a true Christian, abortion is wrong, then it doesn't matter where it happens. It is still wrong. Now, if I was buying a product made in a country, knowing that the money may go to someone who would get an abortion, I would have to question m,y buying habits and ask if I can justify it when I stand to be judged.
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Impossible and I covered the thought before. Remember when I mentiond taxes we pay that get distributed to who knows who for who knows what, or the Amish and how they live "off the grid"? "the money may go to someone who would ..." you would have to live on an island alone to be correct then.
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Be careful, the water is cold man. 
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