Pennock's Fiero Forum
  Totally O/T
  Need some help with Engine Swap in G Body Monte

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Email This Page to Someone! | Printable Version


next newest topic | next oldest topic
Need some help with Engine Swap in G Body Monte by craigsfiero2007
Started on: 05-28-2014 08:26 PM
Replies: 14 (1690 views)
Last post by: craigsfiero2007 on 05-31-2014 05:13 PM
craigsfiero2007
Member
Posts: 3979
From: Livermore, ME
Registered: Aug 2007


Feedback score:    (9)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 71
Rate this member

Report this Post05-28-2014 08:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for craigsfiero2007Click Here to Email craigsfiero2007Send a Private Message to craigsfiero2007Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So I have been helping my friend with his 1984 Monte Carlo. His original 305 threw a rod, so we located a running 350 and swapped it in. The problem we have ran into is that the car has no power, as in no electricity. No Lights, no nothing. To top it all off, the previous owners hacked up the engine wiring harness for some reason. I have a ground from the battery to the block, a ground from the block to the firewall and a ground from the battery to the body.

The harness only had one wire that went to the starter when we pulled the motor.

Any ideas on what the problem is. The motor is a Carbed 350, no smog or sensors. Just your basic Chevy 350.
IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
84fiero123
Member
Posts: 29950
From: farmington, maine usa
Registered: Oct 2004


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 325
Rate this member

Report this Post05-28-2014 08:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Start at the firewall plug, check each wire with a 12v test light to see if you have a problem with the warring, after checking all the fuses first. A 12v test light can be you best friend in a situation like this. Also make sure the computer is not the problem a lot of the problems you stated can come from a faulty computer trying to figure out WTF is going on. I'm sure you disconnected it but just making sure.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't



Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

IP: Logged
FrugalFiero
Member
Posts: 3501
From: MI
Registered: Nov 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 77
Rate this member

Report this Post05-28-2014 08:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FrugalFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
According to the wiring diagram for the 1984 Monte Carlo, there should be two other wires with fusible links connected at the starter along with the positive cable from the battery. They are main power distribution for the vehicle so if they aren't connected, or the fusible links are open these would be a major reason for no power.
IP: Logged
82-T/A [At Work]
Member
Posts: 19916
From: Florida USA
Registered: Aug 2002


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 192
Rate this member

Report this Post05-28-2014 08:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 82-T/A [At Work]Send a Private Message to 82-T/A [At Work]Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by craigsfiero2007:

So I have been helping my friend with his 1984 Monte Carlo. His original 305 threw a rod, so we located a running 350 and swapped it in. The problem we have ran into is that the car has no power, as in no electricity. No Lights, no nothing. To top it all off, the previous owners hacked up the engine wiring harness for some reason. I have a ground from the battery to the block, a ground from the block to the firewall and a ground from the battery to the body.

The harness only had one wire that went to the starter when we pulled the motor.

Any ideas on what the problem is. The motor is a Carbed 350, no smog or sensors. Just your basic Chevy 350.



Honestly, there is VERY little that you need to get that car running.

Assuming you have a completely mechanical fuel pump, a carburetor (as you said), an alternator, a coil, a battery, and an ignition switch, you should be able to get it to start.

- There are TWO cables that should come off the positive terminal on the battery.
- There should be one HUGE positive cable that goes directly from the battery to the large POSITIVE post on the starter.
- There should be one smaller red positive cable that goes directly from the battery to a fuse block / junction. This junction will also (likely in the same spot) have the direct positive feed from the alternator connect onto the same post as the small red cable that connects to the battery lead. Second, this is where the car's body gets it's power from which is then distributed through the fuse block.

Now, what the ignition key does (sometimes through a relay to be safe) is bridge the positive feed from this fuse block, directly to the SMALL post on the starter. Now, remember, the huge thick positive cable from the battery is already directly connected to the starter, but the starter also has a SMALL power lead on it, and this is what gives power to the solenoid which engages the motor and the armature to spin the flywheel. This smaller lead is "MOMENTARY" and should not be directly connected all the time otherwise the starter will spin continuously. This is what the ignition key does.

Finally, the NEGATIVE lead on the battery will usually also have a huge cable, and a smaller cable, or sometimes just a large cable. That cable goes directly to the block, and then from that same location, you connect the body's ground.


Couple other things to mention of course... your coil needs a lead. In really ghetto installs... people wire them right to the battery, but that's not how it should be. The coil should be on "switched" power, whcih means it gets it's power from the fuse block only AFTER the ignition switch has been turned to the ON position... but... for testing, you can temporarily wire it directly to the battery.... you just don't want to forget though because it will drain your battery and isn't very safe.
IP: Logged
84fiero123
Member
Posts: 29950
From: farmington, maine usa
Registered: Oct 2004


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 325
Rate this member

Report this Post05-29-2014 08:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:

Couple other things to mention of course... your coil needs a lead. In really ghetto installs... people wire them right to the battery, but that's not how it should be. The coil should be on "switched" power, whcih means it gets it's power from the fuse block only AFTER the ignition switch has been turned to the ON position... but... for testing, you can temporarily wire it directly to the battery.... you just don't want to forget though because it will drain your battery and isn't very safe.


Yes don't leave that like that permanently it can cause the coil to overheat as power is always to it. not a danger just to get it running but I have seen it happen, the coil gets hot from having constant power to it.

Steve
IP: Logged
rogergarrison
Member
Posts: 49601
From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio
Registered: Apr 99


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 551
Rate this member

Report this Post05-29-2014 10:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you have all those problems with dash, lites, etc. Id try to find a car in a yard with a good main harness and just replace it, or order a new one from one of the manufacturers that specialize in making replacements. Id replace dash and engine compartment...prob leave the original that goes to rear since those rarely get hacked up.
IP: Logged
craigsfiero2007
Member
Posts: 3979
From: Livermore, ME
Registered: Aug 2007


Feedback score:    (9)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 71
Rate this member

Report this Post05-29-2014 10:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for craigsfiero2007Click Here to Email craigsfiero2007Send a Private Message to craigsfiero2007Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks for your guys help as always. The motor is a good ole fashioned 350 with a Mechanical Fuel Pump and a Carb without an HEI Distributor. Most of the wires on the wire harness are for temperature sensors and O2 sensors, and various other sensors that I obviously don't need any more. I did locate the other 2 starter wires, they were zip tied and stuffed in a metal tube that was full of grease and attached to the firewall. I don't know how this car ran before my friend locked the old motor up. Probably on hopes and dreams.

So today we hooked up those wires we found, they had the inline fuse on them. Checked all of the other fuses on the fuse panel inside the car, those are good. Checked and rechecked all the grounds, those all seem good. The only thing I can think of is the battery is weak, but it is a new battery but it has been sitting in the car for the past month because it sat for a while when he blew the motor. I should still have something when I hit the key as far as power goes, even with a weak battery, but still no power. The only wires on the wiring harness that ain't messed up are the wires to the coil. Both are there and hooked up along with the spark plug wire to the distributor. My brain is exhausted from trying to think about what is causing our issue. I will check the fusible links on the starter wires, I didn't check them because we were rushed to finish up so they could close the auto craft shop.
IP: Logged
Formula88
Member
Posts: 53788
From: Raleigh NC
Registered: Jan 2001


Feedback score: (3)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 554
Rate this member

Report this Post05-30-2014 01:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Does the engine have no electrical power, or the CAR?
If the headlights, horn, brake lights, radio, etc. aren't working, you've got bigger issues than just the engine wiring harness.

http://painlesswiring.com/

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 05-30-2014).]

IP: Logged
fireboss
Member
Posts: 2244
From: hueytown ,alabama
Registered: Apr 2011


Feedback score:    (20)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 58
Rate this member

Report this Post05-30-2014 01:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for firebossClick Here to Email firebossSend a Private Message to firebossEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I always detest those dang fusiable links
IP: Logged
carnut122
Member
Posts: 9122
From: Waleska, GA, USA
Registered: Jan 2004


Feedback score:    (9)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 83
Rate this member

Report this Post05-30-2014 06:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for carnut122Send a Private Message to carnut122Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Do you have power to your ignition switch? If so, when you turn the key, do you have power back to your starter solenoid?
IP: Logged
84fiero123
Member
Posts: 29950
From: farmington, maine usa
Registered: Oct 2004


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 325
Rate this member

Report this Post05-30-2014 07:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fireboss:

I always detest those dang fusiable links


I always say this about electrical problems but forgot in my first post,

"I would rather pound my balls flat with a sledge hammer the hunt down an electrical problem!"

Now that you mention that tube with the wire for the starter I think I remember some cars having that, its been a long time since the 80s and they were sometimes fuzzy years, but I do think I remember some of them having that tube with wires going to the starter for some reason, engineers in their wisdom thought it was a good idea to protect those wires that was from the heat of the engine.

but as someone else said I think you have more problems than just the engine starting if you have no power anywhere else as well, check the lower electrical switch for the ignition, as well as the ignition rod going to it. sometimes it can be a mechanical problem that is causing the electrical problem. same goes for the wires in that tube going to the starter, pull those out and clean them off and make sure those are good, no worn insulation where it could be grounding out the start wire inside the tube.

Good luck, I hate electrical problems.

Steve

[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 05-30-2014).]

IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
craigsfiero2007
Member
Posts: 3979
From: Livermore, ME
Registered: Aug 2007


Feedback score:    (9)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 71
Rate this member

Report this Post05-30-2014 07:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for craigsfiero2007Click Here to Email craigsfiero2007Send a Private Message to craigsfiero2007Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well, after we let the battery trickle charge over the day, we discovered the battery was crap. So we went out and got a new battery, lo and behold, we now have power to the freakin car. My other friend pulled the distributor while we were out getting the battery and now the timing is out of whack, I had it TDC when we set the motor in. Oh well, that will be tomorrow's task since we ran out of time at the auto craft shop to get it running today.
IP: Logged
Formula88
Member
Posts: 53788
From: Raleigh NC
Registered: Jan 2001


Feedback score: (3)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 554
Rate this member

Report this Post05-30-2014 08:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by craigsfiero2007:

Well, after we let the battery trickle charge over the day, we discovered the battery was crap. So we went out and got a new battery, lo and behold, we now have power to the freakin car. My other friend pulled the distributor while we were out getting the battery and now the timing is out of whack, I had it TDC when we set the motor in. Oh well, that will be tomorrow's task since we ran out of time at the auto craft shop to get it running today.


Make your buddy fix the distributor, or at least buy the beer.
IP: Logged
84fiero123
Member
Posts: 29950
From: farmington, maine usa
Registered: Oct 2004


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 325
Rate this member

Report this Post05-30-2014 09:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Formula88:


at least buy the beer.




I definitely wouldn't let him do it.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't



Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 05-30-2014).]

IP: Logged
craigsfiero2007
Member
Posts: 3979
From: Livermore, ME
Registered: Aug 2007


Feedback score:    (9)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 71
Rate this member

Report this Post05-31-2014 05:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for craigsfiero2007Click Here to Email craigsfiero2007Send a Private Message to craigsfiero2007Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Formula88:


Make your buddy fix the distributor, or at least buy the beer.


Tried this today so he can learn. Got really irritating because he wasn't getting it. So I did it myself and got the car running. She runs good now. He has been out and about driving it around, so he is happy to have his car back. Thanks for all the help. +'s for all.
IP: Logged

next newest topic | next oldest topic

All times are ET (US)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | Back To Main Page

Advertizing on PFF | Fiero Parts Vendors
PFF Merchandise | Fiero Gallery | Ogre's Cave
Real-Time Chat | Fiero Related Auctions on eBay



Copyright (c) 1999, C. Pennock