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Whatever happened to water injection? by Kitskaboodle
Started on: 05-23-2014 12:04 AM
Replies: 13 (414 views)
Last post by: California Kid on 05-25-2014 10:36 AM
Kitskaboodle
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Report this Post05-23-2014 12:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KitskaboodleClick Here to Email KitskaboodleSend a Private Message to KitskaboodleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
In the 80's I had an aftermarket water injection kit on my Pinto. It was affordable, cheap to operate and had a few side benefits such as cooling the intake charge, cleaning the combustion chamber and pistons, etc.
So, whatever happened to it? If it was so benificial, why then did it go away ?
Kit
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Fiero_Fan_88
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Report this Post05-23-2014 12:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero_Fan_88Click Here to Email Fiero_Fan_88Send a Private Message to Fiero_Fan_88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Kitskaboodle:

In the 80's I had an aftermarket water injection kit on my Pinto. It was affordable, cheap to operate and had a few side benefits such as cooling the intake charge, cleaning the combustion chamber and pistons, etc.
So, whatever happened to it? If it was so benificial, why then did it go away ?
Kit


Methanol, Alcohol, and Water injection is still big but, on forced induction.

[This message has been edited by Fiero_Fan_88 (edited 05-23-2014).]

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California Kid
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Report this Post05-23-2014 12:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for California KidSend a Private Message to California KidEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The biggest reason is that kids today don't really understand how to tune a car. To get the most out of water injection, or venturi effect siphon method, requires timing changes, correct temperature spark plugs, and fuel adjustment. In addition, with today's computer technology, it would help if computer adjusted for humidity in the air.

I've played a lot with it in the past with surprising results, but it did require some fiddling around with every now and then. I used regular old Windshield Washer Solvent, had a separate tank in engine compartment.

[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 05-23-2014).]

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rogergarrison
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Report this Post05-23-2014 09:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
We used to do it in the 60s all the time. I see it come up every once in a while. Most people these days are too smart and say water wont work in a car engine and leave it at that, as YOUR the stupid one. In WWII fighter planes, water injection was used a lot to boost horsepower in inline and radial engines.
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ray b
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Report this Post05-23-2014 10:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ray bClick Here to Email ray bSend a Private Message to ray bEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
YES IT WAS i MET MR WANG [the guy who did the p-51 system]

btw it was alcohol +water 50/50 MIX

the problem is IF you run out of the mix
the motor can be damaged QUICKLY
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Hank is Here
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Report this Post05-23-2014 10:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Hank is HereClick Here to Email Hank is HereSend a Private Message to Hank is HereEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This may be a stupid quesiton but....how does water injection work on a non forced induction applicaiton? I get how it works with turbo's and supers but don't have a clue when it comes to NA engines.
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ray b
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Report this Post05-23-2014 11:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ray bClick Here to Email ray bSend a Private Message to ray bEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
it cools the air
that helps reduce knocking

water injection was mostly used on older hi-compression motors
when hi-lead hi-test gas was no longer sold
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California Kid
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Report this Post05-23-2014 11:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for California KidSend a Private Message to California KidEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Hank is Here:

This may be a stupid quesiton but....how does water injection work on a non forced induction applicaiton? I get how it works with turbo's and supers but don't have a clue when it comes to NA engines.


It smooths out the fuel burn, resulting in a longer power stroke, and it also allows you to advance the ignition timing curve a little more than usual. You also get some benefit from the atomized water expansion during combustion phase. It can work wonders to an engine when setup right. One car I played a lot with was a 1974 Duster 4 spd with a 225 slant 6, I made a custom 2 barrel intake to improve distribution (worked at Chrysler Engineering HQ at the time). Put a large Holley 2 bbl on it modified with hypodermic needles going into venturi ports below throttle blades ( in high air stream zone, no pump was used, just air flow over needles/engine vacuum ), and re-jetted the carburetor, hotter spark plugs, re-curved distributor with spring weights, and added Hooker Headers. The car was amazing with power, would easily rev to 8,000 rpm smoothly, a regular slant 6 was only good for about 4,500 rpm, felt like it wanted to blow up at that rpm.

Another surprising result was a 30% increase in fuel economy, if you drove the car normal. The car has no issues with spanking a production 340 Duster, and larger block Mopars it ran pretty even with. Chrysler reviewed the system I created, but decided there would be risk putting it into production vehicles at the time (for many of the reason I mentioned above).

[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 05-23-2014).]

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fastblack
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Report this Post05-23-2014 11:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fastblackSend a Private Message to fastblackEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:

We used to do it in the 60s all the time. I see it come up every once in a while. Most people these days are too smart and say water wont work in a car engine and leave it at that, as YOUR the stupid one. In WWII fighter planes, water injection was used a lot to boost horsepower in inline and radial engines.


*you're
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Hudini
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Report this Post05-23-2014 12:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The KC-135 tanker aircraft used water injection in its old jet turbine engines (before the new turbofans). That thing would belch black smoke like an old F-4 Phantom II at MIL power.
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heybjorn
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Report this Post05-23-2014 04:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for heybjornClick Here to Email heybjornSend a Private Message to heybjornEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by California Kid:


The car was amazing with power, would easily rev to 8,000 rpm smoothly, a regular slant 6 was only good for about 4,500 rpm, felt like it wanted to blow up at that rpm.




You should be able to make millions running an engine program in NASCAR. 8,000 rpms out of an engine like that; very impressive.

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California Kid
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Report this Post05-23-2014 05:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for California KidSend a Private Message to California KidEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by heybjorn:

You should be able to make millions running an engine program in NASCAR. 8,000 rpms out of an engine like that; very impressive.


Too many Rules in NASCAR ! Look at Formula One, and Indy today, they are so far out there now, they need rules so humans can drive those beasts. Yep, that old slant 6 was looked at by many as a "brick" without any potential. Very few realize the engine was initially developed as an Industrial Engine to power things other than cars. Once they were put in cars people were floored on long the engine lasted, getting over 500,000 miles without a rebuild was not uncommon. There was plenty of unleashed potential in the engine without it going into self destruct mode, same as the old Chrysler Hemi.

Here's a interesting read:

http://www.epi-eng.com/pist...son_of_cup_to_f1.htm
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rogergarrison
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Report this Post05-25-2014 09:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If I remember right, lots of the old mahogany Chris Craft boats used slant 6 engines. It was hard to find a slant 6 in a junkyard...they rarely broke. If you did find one the engine was fine and the rest of the car just decayed away to nothing. I had a buddy who had one in a Valiant he drove for a few years without being able to open the hood at all. It finally did quit and we cut the hood open and it didnt have enough oil to show on the dipstick.

You can buy kits right now. Pretty much a glass or plastic water bottle with a vacumm hose and a tiny port that fed into the base of a carburator. I see them at big auto swap meets all the time...yesterday in fact at one.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 05-25-2014).]

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California Kid
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Report this Post05-25-2014 10:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for California KidSend a Private Message to California KidEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:

You can buy kits right now. Pretty much a glass or plastic water bottle with a vacumm hose and a tiny port that fed into the base of a carburator. I see them at big auto swap meets all the time...yesterday in fact at one.



That's the type of kit I first played with back in the early 70's just to see if it would do anything. Basically it was a water bubblier, attempting to create humid air in top of container that get sucked into engine. They really didn't do too much for improvement, as they claimed, which started me on developing my on system.
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