The proposal comes as Congress prepares to rewrite the existing surface transportation bill. A Congressional Budget Office study found that the Highway Trust Fund, which helps pays for Interstate repairs and is financed by a gasoline tax, will run out of money in August.
Perhaps they should use the existing funding for roads/bridges only.
"The proposal comes as Congress prepares to rewrite the existing surface transportation bill. A Congressional Budget Office study found that the Highway Trust Fund, which helps pays for Interstate repairs and is financed by a gasoline tax, will run out of money in August."
--- from that article.
Raise gas taxes, cut spending (on the heals of a terrible winter, where roads in the "north" are going to crumble) or fund with tolls....
Frankly, we have a lot of highways and I wish the quality of construction would be better... there has to be a better way to make roads last longer, without costing that much more. Our current system seems to just fix the roads for a few years and then require more money and time to fix again.
I would think that would impede our right to travel freely between the states in these united states. I am sure there is some weasel with a plan to get around that. We all know they "need" MORE MONEY and will do ANYTHING to get it.
Great idea for them, milk us for the funds to bribe and strong arm our state governments with. Classic. Might even call it highway robbery.
Now, now, now, ya'll calm down. The Os want to go to Majorca this summer, and Michelle wants a fashionable swimsuit. All the designers have said there isn't enough money in the world, but His O' Barryness thinks this will bring in enough to change someone's mind.
A few things just to point out. They get $2.00 worth of taxes on every gallon of fuel thats sold already. They waste the money on projects that arent needed at all or spend it on something not highway related. In the Columbus area, they built like 1/2 dozen 'roundabouts' on roads that worked fine without them at the cost of millions each. They redesign the whole system at the intersections of I-70 & I-71 EVERY FEW YEARS, at the cost of BILLIONS each time. Why not do a good design and be done with it ? Our glorious EPA has barred most of the chemical elements of good blacktop to save the environment. New blacktop is junk. They dug up a whole 15 miles of I-70...down to the bedrock...and rebuilt it with ONLY gravel and blacktop a foot thick. No concrete...no re-bar. Its already falling apart 8 years later. Another 10 mile section of I-270 was repaved 2 times in 3 years...kept falling apart with foot deep potholes every winter. The 3rd time they made the paving company guarantee it for 10 years or they had to fix it for free...so far so good. Most of the roads out in the country all over Ohio are nearly 50 years old without any repaving and staying in much better shape than any new ones.
It's no problem. They use a transponder system now, so you install a transponder in your car and you don't even have to slow down. The toll system knows where you are and when you went through the toll plazas and you're billed monthly. What could be easier?
I could see it being a big deal around here. You can't get anywhere without taking I-5... paying a toll every day just to get to work and back doesn't appeal to me.
I dont think its meant for all Interstates, unless I missed something. Here we have the Ohio Turnpike, and I know its continued on the PA turnpike. Lots of big bridges like in Cinncy and St Louis have tolls.
Hey, just drive around Chicago for a while to understand how it will be. About every 2 or 3 miles you have a toll booth. And of course the toll booths need to be manned with union workers who would then be beholden to the Democrats to keep their jobs.
Yep, free travel within the United States has been suspended. Assimilate, or die. *that last sentence said in my most evil of evil voices for full effect*
[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 04-30-2014).]
A few things just to point out. They get $2.00 worth of taxes on every gallon of fuel thats sold already. They waste the money on projects that arent needed at all or spend it on something not highway related.
The running joke about PENNDOT workers is that one guy works and 10 stand there watching him, [sarcasm] and yes they must spend their budget or they wont be allotted the same amount next year, so they rip up new roads for no reason and wonder why they don't last. govt is so corrupt its ridiculous, im so sick of them screwing around the roads I work, doing nothing but cause more work for themselves to keep busy.
The Democrats/Communists here are converting lanes that require a passenger to toll roads on our freeways. Their already paid for by the taxpayers for everyone to use and now you have to pay even more and its not cheap. Its a never ending quest to extract more money from you for them to squander in the most wasteful way you could imagine. We have the highest gas tax in America.
[This message has been edited by V8 Vega (edited 04-30-2014).]
This is so out of character that there must have been a vote buying swapping deal involved with legislators owned by toll road interests. Maybe in exchange for changing votes on immigration "reform"?
[This message has been edited by spark1 (edited 05-01-2014).]
Originally posted by 1988holleyformula: So we're supposed to be upset that the Obama Administration wants to give rights back the states?
Heh, too funny, . What has been happening is the overlords have been whining about the fuel tax not being high enough, saying it needs to be raised. Yet they have not given an accounting of how they spent the money, why it is running out. They can't, less we see how it is adequate for what is needed, and how they have misspent it. Interesting that we built the interstate highway system with this money but it can not maintain it, .
The running joke about PENNDOT workers is that one guy works and 10 stand there watching him,
That joke is about all road crews.
The county road guys were on their way to a job when the supervisor called on the radio. " Guys, the truck with the shovels won't start. Lean on each other until we can get it out there. "
Heh, too funny, . What has been happening is the overlords have been whining about the fuel tax not being high enough, saying it needs to be raised. Yet they have not given an accounting of how they spent the money, why it is running out. They can't, less we see how it is adequate for what is needed, and how they have misspent it. Interesting that we built the interstate highway system with this money but it can not maintain it, .
Really? Now you believe there is a coverup of the fuel tax use? I was able to use google and find lots of information of how the money is spent.
As for the cost to build vs maintenance... I guess you can gut and refurbish a home for the same price it was built for back in 1960, while the family is still able to use the home.... Good luck with that. Or maybe you can rebuild a 1970 car for less than it cost to build.... while it is being driven.
The county road guys were on their way to a job when the supervisor called on the radio. " Guys, the truck with the shovels won't start. Lean on each other until we can get it out there. "
Funny but sadly, could be true.
Tuesday, I was in Cincinnati. Came upon a small project, half the road was blocked restricting traffic. There was one man sitting in a backhoe, one guy leaning on a shovel and 7 men standing there in the official work clothes with safety vests, hard hats and safety glasses all standing there watching, drinking their drinks. I was stopped at a traffic light with a complete view of the proceedings for two cycles of the light. The only things I saw happen during these two cycles of the traffic light was the guy leaning on the shovel did use it to throw some dirt into the hole and two of the onlookers went to a truck and brought drinks to some of the others.
------------------ Ron Count Down to A Better America: http://countingdownto.com/countdown/196044 Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun?
My Uncle Frank was a staunch Conservative and voted straight Republican until the day he died in Chicago. Since then he has voted Democrat. Shrug
Tractor trailer weight allowances are too high for the road design. Limit their weight and slow them down, the roads will last longer. Monitor the quality of the materials used in road construction and methods used. Fraud in the construction of our highways is fact. Quit taking core samples of the roads on the area where the tires run, do it in the center of the lane, not the edge. And who had the bright idea of depressed rumble strips that freeze and crumble after the first winter? Congress has the authority over interstate commerce for a good reason. If you don't know why, educate yourself!
[This message has been edited by olejoedad (edited 05-01-2014).]
While it does seem to be true, what if someone randomly watched you work 10 minutes.
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Originally posted by blackrams:
Funny but sadly, could be true.
Tuesday, I was in Cincinnati. Came upon a small project, half the road was blocked restricting traffic. There was one man sitting in a backhoe, one guy leaning on a shovel and 7 men standing there in the official work clothes with safety vests, hard hats and safety glasses all standing there watching, drinking their drinks. I was stopped at a traffic light with a complete view of the proceedings for two cycles of the light. The only things I saw happen during these two cycles of the traffic light was the guy leaning on the shovel did use it to throw some dirt into the hole and two of the onlookers went to a truck and brought drinks to some of the others.
[This message has been edited by jaskispyder (edited 05-01-2014).]
The money collected from the gas taxes get spent on non infrastructure projects. The bureaucrats love spending the taxpayers money on projects that will get them re-elected or a payback to donors. There is no real accountability on the use of these funds.
Orlando area must be the toll road capital of the country. The only thing the toll authority does is to create more toll roads or build more toll booths. With each new toll booth (mostly drive through accessing your transponder) with a new toll fee which they increase periodically. I usually set my GPS for non toll roads to get through the Orlando area which does not seem to affect time to destinations.
[This message has been edited by Old Lar (edited 05-01-2014).]
Tractor trailer weight allowances are too high for the road design. Limit their weight and slow them down, the roads will last longer. Monitor the quality of the materials used in road construction and methods used. Fraud in the construction of our highways is fact.
Roads are crap to a large extent because almost no rebar goes into them. I have seen many roads being constructed with 3 short pieces of rebar, 18 in, I guess, spaced across the lane, then three more pieces three feet away, longitudinally. A huge gap where the load pushes the concrete so that these roads are cupped very quickly. In states where the roads are paved with continuous lengths of rebar laterally and longitudinally the roads are very good, smooth, with a fairly long life.
Tractor trailer weight reduced? Good luck. The American Trucking Association wants the max weight raised from 80, 000 to 97, 000 lbs. Greater productivity. I always thought 80,000 was too much for current brake/tire combinations.
I think this thread is a good example of, no matter what Obama does, a certain set of people will condemn his actions.The highway trust fund is running out. What do you do? Raise taxes? Create another tax? Or create tolls?
I get it, the money that was formerly appropriated for the trust fund was not spent wisely. But if the fund really will run out in August additional revenue needs to be raised in the short term.
I get it, the money that was formerly appropriated for the trust fund was not spent wisely. But if the fund really will run out in August additional revenue needs to be raised in the short term.
I think this thread is a good example of, no matter what Obama does, a certain set of people will condemn his actions.
Only because he is continually wrong, lies about how anything will work, acts in defiance of Constitutional authority. Do we need any other good reasons? I don't think so. Wait, he is a metrosexual ( mommy jeans and a bike helmet ) and he is black, too. I almost forgot to put that in.
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The highway trust fund is running out. What do you do? Raise taxes? Create another tax? Or create tolls?
I get it, the money that was formerly appropriated for the trust fund was not spent wisely. But if the fund really will run out in August additional revenue needs to be raised in the short term.
What would you do?
At some point the borrowing has got to stop, the excesses by Washington have to stop. The pain will be severe when it does. Roads are as good a place for the reality to set in as any.
Most Interstate roads have local highway to cross boarders. Look at DE I95 toll then zoom out. Many are bypassing that toll using US40 and even smaller roads. To the point Newark DE made bypassing the toll is illegal but many trucks still does. (Using US40 gets lower tolls on some bridges in MD too vs I95 or US301.)
Expect higher local traffic when more toll are active.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
Originally posted by masospaghetti: Hand outs to whom?
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Originally posted by jaskispyder: Which ones are those?
Grants, subsidies, food stamps…etc …there are lots to choose from. All the ones that aren’t used responsibly, they are out of hand. (no pun intended)
For example when free government cellphones came out they did not verify customer elegibility for the program, they did not verify who used the phone. More recently they began to do these things. Its blind hand outs like that that cost Billions just in abuse alone that need to be reigned in.
“The FCC said new verification procedures saved nearly $214 million last year, and projected total savings over the next three years would reach $2 billion. Disbursements under the program began to drop in the third quarter after 12 consecutive quarters of increases.”
Originally posted by 2.5: Grants, subsidies, food stamps…etc …there are lots to choose from. All the ones that aren’t used responsibly, they are out of hand. (no pun intended)
For example when free government cellphones came out they did not verify customer elegibility for the program, they did not verify who used the phone. More recently they began to do these things. Its blind hand outs like that that cost Billions just in abuse alone that need to be reigned in.
“The FCC said new verification procedures saved nearly $214 million last year, and projected total savings over the next three years would reach $2 billion. Disbursements under the program began to drop in the third quarter after 12 consecutive quarters of increases.”
I am all for states rights, however... these roads (the Eisenhower Interstate System) was originally paid for by the Federal Government. Because the states agree to the various speed-limits and other specific Federal laws, they also get annual funding for maintaining these roads. So this isn't technically about states rights... it's about freedom of passage. Unfortunately, it doesn't technically violate the constitution's freedom of passage laws because you still have roads like I4, I10, and A1A / US-1.
I'm not sure I totally understand what has and has not changed though... whenever I would drive to New York, I seem to recall that I-95 through Delaware had tolls... unless I was on a different road and just didn't realize it.
Originally posted by masospaghetti: The highway trust fund is running out. What do you do? Raise taxes? Create another tax? Or create tolls? I get it, the money that was formerly appropriated for the trust fund was not spent wisely. But if the fund really will run out in August additional revenue needs to be raised in the short term. What would you do?
Audit the highway trust fund is the first thing which comes to my mind. Evaluate it's usage. I don't think Americans would object to more taxes if they are truly needed.
Sounds like more disinformation by our so called representatives. or maybe a ploy for more of our money, isn't that always what all our laws are about anyway? Money for our so called representatives and their pet projects or themselves. while I do agree the roads we now drive on are in deplorable shape and need repair more often because of the amount traffic increased over the century of use, our bridges are in even worse shape and in need of more repairs as well.
the thing is that our so called representatives never use the moneys they get for its intended purposes, if they did use the moneys already collected for what they are supposed to be used for maybe our roads would be in better condition. but I think most of the problems are that we have so many cars. trucks, and motorhomes traveling our roadways on roads designed by engineers who aren't designing them properly for the conditions of the area and amount of travel on those roads. I would think if they designed them to allow for the frost movements of the roads and the weight of the newer, heavier vehicles that travel our roadways more and more.
Steve
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't
At some point the borrowing has got to stop, the excesses by Washington have to stop. The pain will be severe when it does. Roads are as good a place for the reality to set in as any.
You're really proposing to let the roads fall apart? Of all things to neglect, roads aren't one of them.
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Originally posted by 2.5:
“The FCC said new verification procedures saved nearly $214 million last year, and projected total savings over the next three years would reach $2 billion. Disbursements under the program began to drop in the third quarter after 12 consecutive quarters of increases.”
It sounds like they are already cutting hand outs, no?
I get it, there's lot of waste in the system. But seriously, cutting handouts is not going to replenish the highway fund by August, and letting the roads fall apart is a horrible idea.
A better solution would be to tie increases in highway spending in the short term with cost reductions / cutting handouts in the future, and find a way to actually stick to it and hold the parties accountable.
Originally posted by 84fiero123: ... while I do agree the roads we now drive on are in deplorable shape and need repair more often because of the amount traffic increased over the century of use, our bridges are in even worse shape and in need of more repairs as well.
I do a lot of interstate highway driving. They are in excellent shape here. Even going through downtown Houston, they are in good shape.
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Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Unfortunately, it doesn't technically violate the constitution's freedom of passage laws because you still have roads like I4, I10, and A1A / US-1.
I4 and I 10 ? Interstate highways ? (Here I refer to it as IH 10.) Are A1A/US1 a part of the Interstate highway system ? Those are the roads that they want to allow states to charge tolls on. Roads of which we were promised would not be toll roads when we were sold the bill of goods for a national fuel tax to build the roads. Fine. They are built. Turn them completely over to the states. Drop the national fuel tax. It should be up to the states to invest in roads which bring commerce their way.
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Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: I'm not sure I totally understand what has and has not changed though... whenever I would drive to New York, I seem to recall that I-95 through Delaware had tolls... unless I was on a different road and just didn't realize it.
By law ... within my original source is a hyperlink. Which informs of the authorization of specific toll charging allowances. Alliance for Toll-Free Interstates (ATFI) These are for the construction of HOV (high occupancy vehicle) lanes.
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from my original source link Some Northeastern states, like Delaware and New Jersey, were allowed to keep tolls on existing highways that became a part of the national system. Other states were allowed to charge tolls on highways that were added to existing Interstates, but that revenue can be used only for repair and maintenance of those roads.
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Originally posted by theBDub: I'm down with private companies building roads and having tolls. I actually wish all roads were this way.
In 2003, researchers in New Jersey calculated the annual cost of electronic toll collection on the Garden State Parkway to be $46.9 million—or about 92% of what it cost the federal government to collect federal gasoline taxes in all 50 states during that year. According to the North Texas Tollway Authority (NTTA), in 2012, over 7% of the total revenue generated by NTTA was never recovered due to evasion and other collection problems.
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