Do small pickups, S 10, Ranger, have a separate frame for load carrying capacity? Is the frame plus box just the least expensive way to add the bed? As far as I can discover online, cabs appear to made the same way and of the same material, stamped and spot welded 16-18 gauge steel, as sedans. Couldn't one be built with a unit body engine bay and cab and the box frame welded to the cab? I assume the engineering would be easy enough ( 84fiero123, please weigh in that ) but cost would be the reason this isn't done. The Honda Ridgeline is unit body but isn't a truck, is it?
Do small pickups, S 10, Ranger, have a separate frame for load carrying capacity? Is the frame plus box just the least expensive way to add the bed? As far as I can discover online, cabs appear to made the same way and of the same material, stamped and spot welded 16-18 gauge steel, as sedans. Couldn't one be built with a unit body engine bay and cab and the box frame welded to the cab? I assume the engineering would be easy enough ( 84fiero123, please weigh in that ) but cost would be the reason this isn't done. The Honda Ridgeline is unit body but isn't a truck, is it?
No it is all one frame, front to back, cab and bed are all on the same frame. the reason I think is so that the load in the bed, sometimes being a half ton or more. hey I often over load my pickups and so do many others and the manufacturers know that. if the bed were attached to the cab overloading the bed would bend the cab as well as the frame. I guess, who knows, I ain't no engineer. they both have separate mounting rubber mounting donuts or whatever they are called, allowing for separate flexing of the bed and cab, ever load a bed with more weight on one side than the other? I forget, haven't had my second cup of coffee yet and just got off Skype with our favorite limey, that confused me even more,
Steve
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't
The weight carried in the bed, causes what might appear to be a solid frame to flex differently than a car does from front to back--in 2 different planes--vertically and horizontally. They can do it on vehicles like heavy Suburbans because it is generally assumed the weight and abuse put inside a Suburban won't be as much as in the bed of a pickup, (even tho a Burb has a truck frame) but that flexing is why there is a little gap between the bed and the cab. Early 60s Ford Rancheros had a bad habit of body cracks appearing right behind the cab. Don't know if El Caminos had any similar issues or not. Making a unibody pickup would also limit what type bed options the end user has. They do it in Europe with some small trucks I think.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 04-08-2014).]
The weight carried in the bed, causes what might appear to be a solid frame to flex differently than a car does from front to back--in 2 different planes--vertically and horizontally. They can do it on vehicles like heavy Suburbans because it is generally assumed the weight and abuse put inside a Suburban won't be as much as in the bed of a pickup, (even tho a Burb has a truck frame) but that flexing is why there is a little gap between the bed and the cab. Early 60s Ford Rancheros had a bad habit of body cracks appearing right behind the cab. Don't know if El Caminos had any similar issues or not. Making a unibody pickup would also limit what type bed options the end user has. They do it in Europe with some small trucks I think.
Ayup and I think that was also a problem when Ford first started making their big Burb type vehicle, forget the name, but I think that was one of the problems with their version of the big Burb type as well, everything is a lot heavier on the Burb than a lot of people realize, everything is over kill on the burbs, some have said the 1500/half ton Burbs are actually 3/4 ton trucks but labeled 1/2 ton so people don't try to overload them. but even the Ford version is not uni-body, so I may be wrong about that.
Our first Burb, 86 1/2 ton Melanie came home with like 3/4 of a ton of feed, don't ask she bought that much and no one said anything at the feed store and they just loaded it. when she got home the thing was on the body bumpers, I looked at it from inside the house and almost had a heart attack. the tires were so overloaded they were bulging badly, but it didn't hurt it, never broke anything, springs or nothing. So those people who say that about them my be right, I have no idea, I am no engineer. But it also may have something to do with the extra weight of the wagon type body style of the Burb type vehicles as well if not suspended over the frame right it can cause all sorts of problems with the body welds and fitment. GM has been making the Burban name plate since the 30s so they have a lot of experience at it. That actually is what they call the Burbs body style in the owners manual, "Station wagon body style".
I did like some of the things they came standard with or maybe they were options I though GM should have put in the Burbs like auto folding mirrors when you got out, nice when the parking space was tight. As well as a lot of Dodges little things like the alarm when you leave your turn signal on for so long. And many others that GM is so far behind on.
Steve
[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 04-08-2014).]
I think your talking about the Expedition and Excursion Steve...also known as a Fordasaurus.
The Expedition would be equivalent to a 4 door Bronco/Blazer. The Excursion was the Ford equivalent to the Chevy/GMC Suburban. ALL Excursions were 3/4 ton rated. The 'Burb came in 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton versions. I like "Fordasaurus". I'd love to have one....someday. BTW, the Yukon XL is a Suburban with different trim.
Mike, All the hard parts, engine, transmission, drive line, differential, shocks, suspension, axles, etc..... are mounted to that frame (one way or another) you're wanting to eliminate. Additionally, you're talking about sheet metal that was not intended to or designed to carry a load. I suppose if one undertook such a project, you could weld it up, load it on a trailer and transport it to a show but you're going to have to mount all that hardware somewhere and that sheet metal won't take it.
Steve is correct, removing the frame would result in a pile of sheet metal.
------------------ Ron Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun?
My Uncle Frank was a staunch Conservative and voted straight Republican until the day he died in Chicago. Since then he has voted Democrat. Shrug
Steve is correct, removing the frame would result in a pile of sheet metal.
What, Steve, meaning me is right, How is that possible on any subject? Just kidding you dude.
I recall one engineer saying my welds are not that good in a thread a while ago, not realizing that anything I weld now days is basically blind folded because I weld without a hood on most of my projects on the farm, they will hold up and do hold up just fine. That set of saw horses I made I have put several 2"x12" boards across to use as staging and they held me and a friend of mine up just fine to do a new window in the house a while back.
Although I have to say that Dodge does make uni-body cars without any real frame so I suppose it is possible, but they did like our Fieros are made by making frame rails of sheet metal, not as strong as a full frame vehicle but I suppose it is still possible but you would have to be one talented sheet metal worker and welder to build something like that. Roger and Nick are the only 2 people I would trust to do a project like that. I wouldn't even attempt it myself, I'm a welder but not a sheet metal guy. While I can weld sheet metal and even bend it, I wouldn't trust myself to do something like that. I suppose you could start out with a uni-body type truck, do they even make those? or maybe a car and make something like the old Ranchero and work your way from there but you would have to be one talented guy.
Ayup and I think that was also a problem when Ford first started making their big Burb type vehicle, forget the name, but I think that was one of the problems with their version of the big Burb type as well, everything is a lot heavier on the Burb than a lot of people realize, everything is over kill on the burbs, some have said the 1500/half ton Burbs are actually 3/4 ton trucks but labeled 1/2 ton so people don't try to overload them. but even the Ford version is not uni-body, so I may be wrong about that.
Our first Burb, 86 1/2 ton Melanie came home with like 3/4 of a ton of feed, don't ask she bought that much and no one said anything at the feed store and they just loaded it. when she got home the thing was on the body bumpers, I looked at it from inside the house and almost had a heart attack. the tires were so overloaded they were bulging badly, but it didn't hurt it, never broke anything, springs or nothing. So those people who say that about them my be right, I have no idea, I am no engineer. But it also may have something to do with the extra weight of the wagon type body style of the Burb type vehicles as well if not suspended over the frame right it can cause all sorts of problems with the body welds and fitment. GM has been making the Burban name plate since the 30s so they have a lot of experience at it. That actually is what they call the Burbs body style in the owners manual, "Station wagon body style".
Steve
I'd like to offer that payload isn't what you call a 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton, or 1 ton.
I think when they say payload they are adding passengers as well and with todays average person weighing in at lets just say 200 lbs to make the figuring easy, 5 passengers would take up all of that 1/2 ton and in the case of a suburban type vehicle with 9 passenger capacity that would be 1800 lbs. but I have been told before I was wrong, about just about everything I say.
I think when they say payload they are adding passengers as well and with todays average person weighing in at lets just say 200 lbs to make the figuring easy, 5 passengers would take up all of that 1/2 ton and in the case of a suburban type vehicle with 9 passenger capacity that would be 1800 lbs. but I have been told before I was wrong, about just about everything I say.
Steve
There is an actual chart somewhere where it shows GVWR and hauling and towing capacity. I've had a bunch of weight in all my trucks. I notice my 4x4 diesel squats almost none compared to my 4x2 gasser. I assume it has something to do with HD suspension, but the gasser is a single cab and is supposed to have a better payload... I can promise the breaks suck compared to my diesel F250s. We pulled my 25' goose neck once and warped every rotor and had to replace the pads too.
) but cost would be the reason this isn't done. The Honda Ridgeline is unit body but isn't a truck, is it? 
they both have separate mounting rubber mounting donuts or whatever they are called, allowing for separate flexing of the bed and cab, ever load a bed with more weight on one side than the other? I forget, haven't had my second cup of coffee yet and just got off Skype with our favorite limey, that confused me even more, 
What, Steve, meaning me is right, 
How is that possible on any subject? 
