I've been reading a lot of headlines lately pushing to get schools to start later because students just can't wake up early enough to get to class at a time like 7:30 am. So there are some schools who either have or are looking into pushing the start time for classes to 9:00 am.
Really? I can see where this will go soon thereafter. 9:00 am will become too early as well. What's going to happen to these students when they get into the real world and the boss just can't find it in his heart to allow you to start your day around noon and show up for that meeting in your jammies? Maybe I'm just getting old. But I see our education system (public anyway) sinking faster and faster. We're inflating our graduation rates by dumbing down the content of the classes and now even the SAT. If we want to do better in the world education-wise, we're going to have to actually improve education. Not just make it look like we are.
Funny, my 6 year old and 4 year old are waken up by something called PARENTS. For the younger generation, having your kid late for school is just piss-poor parenting. For the older kids who can't get to school in time, thats just called the laziness of todays generation.
What's going to happen to these students when they get into the real world and the boss just can't find it in his heart to allow you to start your day around noon and show up for that meeting in your jammies?
They will demand laws be created that will force employers to let them do it. 'entitlement generation' ( think we are doomed now.. just wait until these fools are running things )
[This message has been edited by Nurb432 (edited 03-23-2014).]
My daughter starts kindergarten at a school this fall which starts at 9:30 AM.
Since I start work at 7 AM, my wife at 8 AM, she won't have the benefit of "sleeping in" for that 9:30 start. Off to a before school program she will have to go.
What shocks me in this day and age is that schools are no more parent friendly in that regard.
What shocked me was the one particular story of a Missouri teen who started a campaign against her school changing the start time from about 8:00am to 7:30am. Her argument was that she had a hard making it to school for the 8:00am start because she liked to stay out late with her friends and wanted to get more sleep. If the school changed the start time to 7:30am, she would probably just have to drop out because she could never make it on time. So not only did she, with the help of brain-dead parents and her brain-dead friends, did she get the school to not make the class start time to 7:30am, but she got them to make it 9:00am. I haven't been able to see if the school has is extended an hour at the end of the day or not to make up for the lost hour in the morning, but I doubt it. The comments I read on that story were jaw-dropping. People commending this girl for going out late on school nights with her friends and partying instead of studying. Commending her for being lazy. That's it! Stop the world, I wanna get off.
Our daughters start school at 7:45 AM. Both are usually up and out of bed when I walk in to the living room at 6:15 each morning and keep the same schedule on the weekends. Their bed time is 7:30 PM when they go to their room and they can read or talk to each other till 8:15 PM, then it is quiet time and lights out.
If they rode the school bus (which they will likely do next year), it would pick them up at the house at 6:40 AM.
I leave for work at 6:40 AM right after the school bus, so I think it is good for the children to see their parents get up early and get ready to go to work.
I wonder what involvement the teachers unions have in this effort......
I wonder when we can get off the old "harvest season" summers off of school. I believe school should be year round, but I know I'm in the minority on that idea. Hell they even have the first day of deer hunting season in Arkansas as a school holiday.
Schools here are a bottumless hole the taxpayers throw billions in. The teachers union is the strongest in the state and probably the strongest in the world. And public employee unions run this state.run this state.
I wonder when we can get off the old "harvest season" summers off of school. I believe school should be year round, but I know I'm in the minority on that idea. Hell they even have the first day of deer hunting season in Arkansas as a school holiday.
I believe school should be year round, but I know I'm in the minority on that idea.
I'm a bit torn on it to be honest. While i see the point of making the snot nosed creatures work to the bone 24/7 in camps i also remember being burnt out 90% of the time as a kid at school. The summer break important, even adults take a bit of time off too or they get burnt out ( i know i have been, i haven't taken a vacation in 20 + years ). its far to easy to lose a kid due to over working them. They aren't adults yet, they cant just 'suck it up'.
Here they proposed to make summer 2 weeks and spread out the rest of the time around so that you go to school all year, but still have breaks, just more often and far shorter.
I learn towards more perhaps 1 month for summer, and spread out the other month around... But i dont know the 'right' answer.
I'm a bit torn on it to be honest. While i see the point of making the snot nosed creatures work to the bone 24/7 in camps i also remember being burnt out 90% of the time as a kid at school. The summer break important, even adults take a bit of time off too or they get burnt out ( i know i have been, i haven't taken a vacation in 20 + years ). its far to easy to lose a kid due to over working them. They aren't adults yet, they cant just 'suck it up'.
Here they proposed to make summer 2 weeks and spread out the rest of the time around so that you go to school all year, but still have breaks, just more often and far shorter.
I learn towards more perhaps 1 month for summer, and spread out the other month around... But i dont know the 'right' answer.
I do agree with you a bit. I think that vacation breaks like spring break, winter break and holidays are just fine. A summer break is cool too, but does it have to be three months long? That's a sabbatical.
I do agree with you a bit. I think that vacation breaks like spring break, winter break and holidays are just fine. A summer break is cool too, but does it have to be three months long? That's a sabbatical.
I think a long Summer break serves a purpose other than vacation. It gives time for kids to have experiences outside school, like a summer camp or other activities that last longer than a week long family vacation. And it still allows time for the family to schedule vacations in there as well.
Kids need to grow and be stimulated by more than just school.
I fail to see why a one time to all approach is a good idea
why not have a choice 6- 7-8-9 10 to start the day and better fit the parents - kids -teachers work timing requirements
no collage has a one time class start requirement for students you get to pick the class time
that saves money as they need less classrooms and other facility's like cafeterias buses ect as the school need not have every student there at the same exact time and allow the older kids more chances to get a part time job most places have rush timings like a fast food place could use more help around noon say 11am to 2pm and again say 5pm to 9 pm so a kid could work those times and be at school 8am to 11 and 2 to 5 pm
flexibility is better then a rigid timing for most things inc schools
A few of my classmates have told me that our school is trying to do the same thing, but right now it's just rumors, I hope. I'm perfectly fine waking up at 5:30, leaving the house at 6:30, and starting school at 7:20.
If the high school students started at 9:00, that means that the elementary kids have to start earlier in order for there to be enough buses to pick everyone up. It doesn't make any sense at all to have the older kids start school later in the day when many of them will be entering the workforce after they graduate. Do you know many businesses that open after 9:00? The elementary kids need to have more sleep since they're growing a lot more rapidly.
People need to stop being so short-sighted and need to start looking at the bigger picture, what will happen after high school? If the entitlement mentality isn't crushed, it will carry on into adulthood.
Funny, my 6 year old and 4 year old are waken up by something called PARENTS. For the younger generation, having your kid late for school is just piss-poor parenting. For the older kids who can't get to school in time, thats just called the laziness of todays generation.
Very true. In middle and high school, the 'kids' are out till 3am and want to sleep till noon. I was made to be in bed by 10pm till I graduated. When they do go to school at 8am, there out by noon these days. We had to stay till 330pm every day. If we didnt have classes, we were required to be in study halls. Here theryre looking at making school year round with a few week break around Christmas and another 2 week break in the middle of summer. They havent mentioned changes in hours, but it should be 8am till 5pm...and required every weekday.
I have read many studies that show that the various age groups learn better at different times of the day, and they wake up at different times. Maybe we should be looking at data and not using our emotions ("back in my day..."). There is nothing wrong with changing schedules, if it works. It may not, but at least we should be talking about it based on research and real-life requirements. Also, we should be talking about year-around school, as studies have proven that works also.
A few of my classmates have told me that our school is trying to do the same thing, but right now it's just rumors, I hope. I'm perfectly fine waking up at 5:30, leaving the house at 6:30, and starting school at 7:20.
If the high school students started at 9:00, that means that the elementary kids have to start earlier in order for there to be enough buses to pick everyone up. It doesn't make any sense at all to have the older kids start school later in the day when many of them will be entering the workforce after they graduate. Do you know many businesses that open after 9:00? The elementary kids need to have more sleep since they're growing a lot more rapidly.
People need to stop being so short-sighted and need to start looking at the bigger picture, what will happen after high school? If the entitlement mentality isn't crushed, it will carry on into adulthood.
One of the reasons for the staggered start times is for the older kids to be home before the younger ones get out of school. 2 parents work and the highschool siblings become babysitting proxy parents till the first parent arrives home later in the day.
I have read many studies that show that the various age groups learn better at different times of the day, and they wake up at different times. Maybe we should be looking at data and not using our emotions ("back in my day..."). There is nothing wrong with changing schedules, if it works. It may not, but at least we should be talking about it based on research and real-life requirements. Also, we should be talking about year-around school, as studies have proven that works also.
Originally posted by rogergarrison: When they do go to school at 8am, there out by noon these days.
That would be against Ohio state law....
"The statewide minimums are as follows. Anything less is outside of state mandates. Minimum school year – 182 days. Minimum instructional days – 178 days (grades 1-11). Minimum instructional days – 177 days (grade K). Minimum instructional days – 175 days (grade 12). Minimum instructional hours/day (K-6) – 5 hrs. Minimum instructional hours/day (7-12) – 5.5 hrs."
Now those are instructional hours, which do not include lunch, breaks, etc....
My daughter starts kindergarten at a school this fall which starts at 9:30 AM.
Since I start work at 7 AM, my wife at 8 AM, she won't have the benefit of "sleeping in" for that 9:30 start. Off to a before school program she will have to go.
What shocks me in this day and age is that schools are no more parent friendly in that regard.
That's a long day for a little kid, even if they have 'naptime' at school. Will she also have 'aftercare'?
It's rough, but if you act like it's no big deal, like it's a normal routine(which it IS, nowerdays) she'll be more receptive of it...
That's a long day for a little kid, even if they have 'naptime' at school. Will she also have 'aftercare'?
It's rough, but if you act like it's no big deal, like it's a normal routine(which it IS, nowerdays) she'll be more receptive of it...
Yep, before and after care for her. Before is definately needed. After won't be for as long, but with commuting and such I do not beat the bus onto our street. She is too young to be a latch key kid. I also have to work "late" a night or two a week for coverage purposes, and since my wife works to 5... we are stuck.
It is definately a long day for her. Basically it will be similar length to her day now with pre-school as we are doing that routine now. Yes, it is definately the "normal" routine for her, and she works well within the routine. The biggest challenge is her level of fatigue as the week wears on. We are dilligent with bedtime to help her, but have already been having trouble with her in that regard since it is no longer fully dark at her bed time.
We'll make the best of it and make it out the other end ok. I just wish the school's schedule was more in line with the typical employer in this areas. Most of this areas daytime workers start between 7 and 8 AM, so I am not really sure the benefit of a 930 start at the school.
Sorry, but thats the way it is and has been for at least 20 years here. I used to have a couple of girl friends that were seniors in high school when I was younger. One was a gf and other worked for me in the shop as a masker. They didnt have a car, so I picked them up at school at lunch time every day. You can look up their school regs if you want...it was the Groveport-Madison school district (south columbus suburb). When the car wash was in business next door, the lot was full all day after lunch of high school kids hanging out as was all the local stores and malls. The student parking lots at all the schools are half empty after lunch. Laws dont make things so (look up Obama).
Schools and jobs make their hours and people have to follow them. Not many jobs or schools have any hours that are convenient for you, not them. How many jobs have you had where you told them the hours you were going to work for them ? My school started at 830 and was over at 330. They didnt care when I went to bed or if i worked.
[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 03-24-2014).]
Originally posted by rogergarrison: Schools and jobs make their hours and people have to follow them. Not many jobs or schools have any hours that are convenient for you, not them. How many jobs have you had where you told them the hours you were going to work for them ? My school started at 830 and was over at 330. They didnt care when I went to bed or if i worked.
Sorry, but thats the way it is and has been for at least 20 years here. I used to have a couple of girl friends that were seniors in high school when I was younger. One was a gf and other worked for me in the shop as a masker. They didnt have a car, so I picked them up at school at lunch time every day. You can look up their school regs if you want...it was the Groveport-Madison school district (south columbus suburb). When the car wash was in business next door, the lot was full all day after lunch of high school kids hanging out as was all the local stores and malls. The student parking lots at all the schools are half empty after lunch. Laws dont make things so (look up Obama).
Schools and jobs make their hours and people have to follow them. Not many jobs or schools have any hours that are convenient for you, not them. How many jobs have you had where you told them the hours you were going to work for them ? My school started at 830 and was over at 330. They didnt care when I went to bed or if i worked.
Hey, I am just telling you what the Ohio state requirements are. You said they were seniors, they may have had enough credits to graduate, and could attend fewer hours in their senior year. That is how it works in MI. Also, seniors have the ability to co-op, where they take a class that is focused on them working for an employer. I did this in HS. I got out at 11AM.
How about this comparison.... You sell a product that is targeted to teenagers, but your hours are 3am-Noon. How many teenagers are going to be shopping at your store.... few. Then you try selling your products from 3pm until Midnight and amazingly, more teenagers appear at your store. The same is true for schools, they should be thinking about when is the best time to deliver their product. Of course, this is backed up by studies. As for jobs and schools that are convenient... well, it all depends, kids are not employees, they are customers. The same is true for parents and if parents don't like it, then local schools have the ability to change their operating hours. I am guessing that the current hours are the most practical, as you can't make everyone happy, but the majority agree that those hours work for them. My school was 8am until 3pm. As for your comment about the gf in high school.... I hope that was a long time ago ...
Longggg time ago. I was just out of the Air Force and painting for a van conversion shop. Probably around 25 and she was 18...completely legal and her parents both loved me...even let me stay at their house sometimes.
Longggg time ago. I was just out of the Air Force and painting for a van conversion shop. Probably around 25 and she was 18...completely legal and her parents both loved me...even let me stay at their house sometimes.
Just checking, as you talk as if currently this is how schools are run.
I haven't been able to see if the school has is extended an hour at the end of the day or not to make up for the lost hour in the morning, but I doubt it.
The State has requirements on the number of hours students must attend. They have to extend the day, or extend the number of days. Otherwise, schools will not receive state/fed funding.
Just checking, as you talk as if currently this is how schools are run.
If it was done 20+ years ago, yes its still done now, at least as of last month. If there has been any change, its kids in school less than then. I can take a photo of any high school in the city at say 1pm, and show you nearly empty student parking lots....because they all left. Far as I know, they only take attendance in home room, so they can skip out anytime after that they want.
Columbus is going thru a big hassle right now about falsifying attendance records. Its in the schools interest to report everyone in class whether they are or not, and apparently at least here, its been done for years. At least 2 principals have been fired for doing it in the last month. Google it. For people that habitually cut class, they even remove their names from the schools records so it appears they have a better attendance percentage than they do. For under achievers, they do the same thing, so that the schools appear to be doing better than they are.
Schools here are getting much better funding now by getting a percentage of profits from all the new casinos that have opened here, so theyre less strapped for state and federal funds now than they were 2 years ago.
[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 03-25-2014).]
You are making assumptions. Here, attendance is taken every class.
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:
If it was done 20+ years ago, yes its still done now, at least as of last month. If there has been any change, its kids in school less than then. I can take a photo of any high school in the city at say 1pm, and show you nearly empty student parking lots....because they all left. Far as I know, they only take attendance in home room, so they can skip out anytime after that they want.
Columbus is going thru a big hassle right now about falsifying attendance records. Its in the schools interest to report everyone in class whether they are or not, and apparently at least here, its been done for years. At least 2 principals have been fired for doing it in the last month. Google it. For people that habitually cut class, they even remove their names from the schools records so it appears they have a better attendance percentage than they do. For under achievers, they do the same thing, so that the schools appear to be doing better than they are.
Schools here are getting much better funding now by getting a percentage of profits from all the new casinos that have opened here, so theyre less strapped for state and federal funds now than they were 2 years ago.
I asked several people I know that are in high school, or recently graduated in the last few years. Here anyway, they only take attendance in home room...and its an option if a teacher wants to for his own interests. And yes, most I asked cut afternoon classes. Several even said they basicly only show up for tests in classes they have no homework in. Most also noted most of the teachers care less if they attend classes or not. Not a single one I asked ever goes to a study hall...(I had at least 2 every day). Some of them say they stay on campus, but go sit by the river bank during warm weather rather than sit in class. This all shows me why they cant spell 4 letter words, find anyplace on a map, or do simple math. Even funnier is a few of them are on the honor roll ???
I asked several people I know that are in high school, or recently graduated in the last few years. Here anyway, they only take attendance in home room...and its an option if a teacher wants to for his own interests. And yes, most I asked cut afternoon classes. Several even said they basicly only show up for tests in classes they have no homework in. Most also noted most of the teachers care less if they attend classes or not. Not a single one I asked ever goes to a study hall...(I had at least 2 every day). Some of them say they stay on campus, but go sit by the river bank during warm weather rather than sit in class. This all shows me why they cant spell 4 letter words, find anyplace on a map, or do simple math. Even funnier is a few of them are on the honor roll ???
Sounds like Ohio needs to investigate this school district.... hmmm Run for the board, Roger!
