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V6 Engine Rebuild -mild performance- maniac way by Fieromaniac
Started on: 08-28-2008 02:21 PM
Replies: 170 (21481 views)
Last post by: Rivethead on 01-21-2011 12:48 PM
Fieromaniac
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Report this Post08-28-2008 02:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieromaniacClick Here to visit Fieromaniac's HomePageSend a Private Message to FieromaniacEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
victim : 86 2.8V6 car had 103k mls on the clock

planned is 3.1 crank , portmatched intakes and exhaust , perf camshaft + lifters + 1.52 comp cams , 0.040 or maybe 0.060 oversize pistons

demontage















































front head down ..... welcome to the colemine




cleaned the head a lil


fuelrail cleaned


injectors cleaned






previous owner liked oilleak stop and disliked oilchanges and loved mineral oil .......










dampener has to go


found something that surved its purpose as puller






























block needs to be bored or i need another block


------------------
1984 Fiero Sport
1987 Fiero
1984 Fiero SE
1999 Chrysler Grand Voyager 3.3 LX LPG

*** nuclear winter cures global warming ***

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Fieromaniac
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Report this Post08-28-2008 02:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieromaniacClick Here to visit Fieromaniac's HomePageSend a Private Message to FieromaniacEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Fieromaniac

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Member since Nov 2006
portmatching the intakes























------------------
1984 Fiero Sport
1987 Fiero
1984 Fiero SE
1999 Chrysler Grand Voyager 3.3 LX LPG

*** nuclear winter cures global warming ***

[This message has been edited by Fieromaniac (edited 08-28-2008).]

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Report this Post08-28-2008 02:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ducattimanClick Here to Email ducattimanSend a Private Message to ducattimanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
gr8 post...
Eh but i have a question for u............But why????


Pls dont take this the wrong way..why go with a bigger and better engine( maybe i think it is german law or something) Why i ask is becuase i am all the time surfing the car add's for parts and extras in germany,,,like www.autoscout24.de www.mobile.de

All cars from german r WAY CHEAPER and NEWER then the crap we have over here in holland...

Remember just asking nice : :
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Report this Post08-28-2008 02:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Doug85GTSend a Private Message to Doug85GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
When I saw this picture, I felt like I came onto the scene of of a bear attack. That engine is ugly. I tell people all the time never to use any stop leak products in their engine or coolant. I think I will save some of those pictures to show as proof.



I wish you luck on your buildup. It will be nice to see how it goes. Will you do anything to free up the intake or exhaust any?
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Fieromaniac
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Report this Post08-28-2008 02:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieromaniacClick Here to visit Fieromaniac's HomePageSend a Private Message to FieromaniacEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ducattiman:

gr8 post...
Eh but i have a question for u............But why????


Pls dont take this the wrong way..why go with a bigger and better engine( maybe i think it is german law or something) Why i ask is becuase i am all the time surfing the car add's for parts and extras in germany,,,like www.autoscout24.de www.mobile.de

All cars from german r WAY CHEAPER and NEWER then the crap we have over here in holland...

Remember just asking nice : :


- my 87duke has around 220k mls on the clock and its starting to make rodbearing noises
- car goes around 25k km each year ( lpg conversion )
- need a spare engine for it and if i rebuild it i do it complete
- bigger engine = much more taxes per year ( 15,13 Euro per 100ccm = 423 Euro taxes per year for a 2.8 ...... 574,94 for a 3.8 )
- german cars are ugly electronic polluted monsters

and last but not least i like fixing or building things
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Report this Post08-28-2008 04:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Doug85GT:

When I saw this picture, I felt like I came onto the scene of of a bear attack. That engine is ugly. I tell people all the time never to use any stop leak products in their engine or coolant. I think I will save some of those pictures to show as proof.





Is all that crud the result of using "stop leak products" or simply from NEVER changing the oil?

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Report this Post08-28-2008 05:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Arns85GTClick Here to Email Arns85GTSend a Private Message to Arns85GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That's the lack of changing one's oil for years on end. What a mess.

Fieromaniac you forgot piston/rods. The 3.1 crank will change your stroke length so you need the correct pistons and rods.

I don't want to rain on your parade, but you need to consider some things before you put out a lot of cash. The mild port on your intake will not do very much at all. Especially with increasing your displacement to approximately 3.2 (3.1 crank w/ .060 over) My current engine is .050 over and I don't think it makes much of a difference at all. You might get more by raising your compression with Total Seal rings or decking. (cheaper too)

That intake really won't breath enough to give the car much oomph. If I was rebuilding again, with a view to freshening up the engine, I would port the heads, bigger cam, port the exhaust logs and Y, and replace the intake with the Trueleo. I think you'll get more with ported heads than increasing the displacement. If you do both porting heads and intake, your Fiero intake will starve you out at about 5200 rpm. There have been a few guys disappointed with their rebuilds' performance after a big cash outlay. You are well advised to do some more reading before laying out the cash. Hope this helps you

Arn

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Fie Ro
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Report this Post08-28-2008 05:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fie RoClick Here to visit Fie Ro's HomePageClick Here to Email Fie RoSend a Private Message to Fie RoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Let me know if I can help with parts...
(I have my 'old' 2.8 sitting in a corner...may take it apart if needed, the goodies: it has low km rebuild+tested injectors and the stock exhaust manifolds are welded, ported and have resurfaced flanges...I also have some new 2.8 ignition parts, timing chain kit etc that I cant use anymore.)
Good luck with the rebuild !
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Report this Post08-29-2008 07:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FieromaniacClick Here to visit Fieromaniac's HomePageSend a Private Message to FieromaniacEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
upper intake all ports opened ( cleaning / painting later )



starting with the middle intake ( opened the first intakechannel up on its comlete lengh )
tools of my choice : dremel , rasp , flatfile ,





was at the engine shop today and 0.040 oversize should be ok now iam searching vor the correct 3.1 pistons ( rods are the same )

[This message has been edited by Fieromaniac (edited 08-29-2008).]

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Report this Post08-29-2008 07:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FieromaniacClick Here to visit Fieromaniac's HomePageSend a Private Message to FieromaniacEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Arns85GT:

You might get more by raising your compression with Total Seal rings or decking. (cheaper too)
..................
That intake really won't breath enough to give the car much oomph. If I was rebuilding again, with a view to freshening up the engine, I would port the heads, bigger cam, port the exhaust logs and Y, and replace the intake with the Trueleo.
............................
There have been a few guys disappointed with their rebuilds' performance after a big cash outlay. You are well advised to do some more reading before laying out the cash. Hope this helps you

Arn

-cant raise the compression because the engine will be propane powered like my duke now .
2nd fuel will be E85

- cam will be mild perf cam
rockerarms 1:1,52

- no racing or speeding planned with the car iam not in this age anymore
high RPM with propane is a no go
Just want some more power on the "Autobahn" between 120 and 160 kmh

[This message has been edited by Fieromaniac (edited 08-29-2008).]

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Report this Post09-02-2008 01:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieromaniacClick Here to visit Fieromaniac's HomePageSend a Private Message to FieromaniacEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post




















almost done with middle and upper intake

[This message has been edited by Fieromaniac (edited 09-02-2008).]

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Report this Post09-02-2008 01:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieromaniacClick Here to visit Fieromaniac's HomePageSend a Private Message to FieromaniacEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
@FieRo

Timingchain Kit , ignitionstuff and manifolds would be great

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Report this Post09-02-2008 05:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for falcon_caClick Here to Email falcon_caSend a Private Message to falcon_caEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
OMG

Those little 2.8 are tougher than I ever imagine

This picture must be sent to GM as proof of reliability




------------------
""I'm not driving too fast, . . . I'm just flying too low."

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Fie Ro
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Report this Post09-03-2008 01:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fie RoClick Here to visit Fie Ro's HomePageClick Here to Email Fie RoSend a Private Message to Fie RoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Fieromaniac:

@FieRo

Timingchain Kit , ignitionstuff and manifolds would be great



That reminds me to respond to your pm
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darkhorizon
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Report this Post09-03-2008 02:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
130whp here we come!
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Report this Post09-03-2008 03:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ducattimanClick Here to Email ducattimanSend a Private Message to ducattimanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
OMG

Can someone call the Internet Police and report that the RTF Trolls have escaped again
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Fie Ro
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Report this Post09-03-2008 04:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fie RoClick Here to visit Fie Ro's HomePageClick Here to Email Fie RoSend a Private Message to Fie RoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
130 WHP doesnt sound too bad when you add the auto trans loss mated to the rebuild engine..
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Fieromaniac
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Report this Post09-03-2008 04:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieromaniacClick Here to visit Fieromaniac's HomePageSend a Private Message to FieromaniacEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Fie Ro:

130 WHP doesnt sound too bad when you add the auto trans loss mated to the rebuild engine..


130 hp on the wheels are really enough for a daily driver ( between 80 and 200km each day sometimes more ).
2nd goal will be to raise the mpg .
Tranny needs to stay the automatic because my wife is to short to drive comfortable with shifted Fiero
at least she dont like it

------------------
1984 Fiero Sport
1987 Fiero
1984 Fiero SE
1999 Chrysler Grand Voyager 3.3 LX LPG

*** nuclear winter cures global warming ***

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Fieromaniac
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Report this Post09-03-2008 04:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieromaniacClick Here to visit Fieromaniac's HomePageSend a Private Message to FieromaniacEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Fieromaniac

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quote
Originally posted by Fie Ro:


That reminds me to respond to your pm


PM System dont work for me thats why i deactivated it .
i had send you a mail .

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Report this Post09-03-2008 06:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fie RoClick Here to visit Fie Ro's HomePageClick Here to Email Fie RoSend a Private Message to Fie RoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes your are right, so I replied your email
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Report this Post09-04-2008 07:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for SCCAFieroClick Here to Email SCCAFieroSend a Private Message to SCCAFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I did not think you could fit a 3.1 crank into a pre 88 block. The 3.1 crank is internally balanced and had the extra ring in the middle. Has someone else done it?
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Report this Post09-04-2008 08:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FieromaniacClick Here to visit Fieromaniac's HomePageSend a Private Message to FieromaniacEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by SCCAFiero:

I did not think you could fit a 3.1 crank into a pre 88 block. The 3.1 crank is internally balanced and had the extra ring in the middle. Has someone else done it?


http://www.engine-parts.com/GMV6/gm2831stkr.html



"....Any GM Vehicle mid-1985 or Newer that originally came with a 2.8L Engine....."

didnt bought the Kit from ARI i got the stuff seperately
new crank with bearings 120,00 Euro ( us-parts-online.de)
pistons with methanol / LPG Rings 58$ ( ebay )
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SCCAFiero
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Report this Post09-04-2008 10:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for SCCAFieroClick Here to Email SCCAFieroSend a Private Message to SCCAFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Interesting, I bet you still need the newer flywheel.

Good luck.
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Fieromaniac
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Report this Post09-04-2008 12:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieromaniacClick Here to visit Fieromaniac's HomePageSend a Private Message to FieromaniacEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by SCCAFiero:

Interesting, I bet you still need the newer flywheel.

Good luck.


dont know if i can reuse the 86 flexplate ( engine will be married with the TH125C in my 87 coupe )

85-87 flexplate:




88 flexplate:



the 88 flexplate looks far more neutral balanced to me .......
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Fieromaniac
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Report this Post09-05-2008 01:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieromaniacClick Here to visit Fieromaniac's HomePageSend a Private Message to FieromaniacEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
started with the lower intake





















under side opened


not modified channels


1st channel opened Top view




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Back On Holiday
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Report this Post09-05-2008 01:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Back On HolidayClick Here to Email Back On HolidaySend a Private Message to Back On HolidayEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Im in a plus giving mood a + to you for a nice detailed pic thread

Bah, I already gave you one... anyway, a good read!

[This message has been edited by Back On Holiday (edited 09-05-2008).]

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Fieromaniac
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Report this Post09-08-2008 11:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FieromaniacClick Here to visit Fieromaniac's HomePageSend a Private Message to FieromaniacEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
got this today :





my DHL mailman is starting to love me i guess
i live in the 5th floor and he carried me the package right to my door

refreshed 3.1 crank with new bearings ( 120 )
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Report this Post09-08-2008 12:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for squisher86SESend a Private Message to squisher86SEEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Fieromaniac:


dont know if i can reuse the 86 flexplate ( engine will be married with the TH125C in my 87 coupe )

85-87 flexplate:




88 flexplate:



the 88 flexplate looks far more neutral balanced to me .......


You will need the 88 flexplate, the 3.1 crankshaft is internally balanced like the 88 2.8
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Fieromaniac
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Report this Post09-21-2008 02:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieromaniacClick Here to visit Fieromaniac's HomePageSend a Private Message to FieromaniacEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
found a flexplate in one of my garages and i think its from a 86Duke but it looks neutral balanced to me
Question is if i can use it with the V6




still waiting to get the pistons and the camshaft
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Report this Post10-02-2008 10:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FieromaniacClick Here to visit Fieromaniac's HomePageSend a Private Message to FieromaniacEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
got the pistons , headbolts and the pistonringset ( LPG / Methanol ) today



found for me a nice CRANE PERFORMANCE CAMSHAFT 2030 Set in ebay and got it for 19,99 new with Lifters


special thx to FieRo he send me his Exhaust manifolds and some other very usefull stuff

[This message has been edited by Fieromaniac (edited 11-05-2008).]

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Report this Post10-02-2008 01:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
sheese, with those prices this might actually be worth your time.
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Report this Post10-02-2008 02:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FIER086Send a Private Message to FIER086Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Did that 2.8 run like crap? I have heard you can you clean up an engine like that by switching to synthetic oil and changing it every 1000 miles or less for a long time to slowy degum an old engine. Is this true?

------------------
'86 2m4- Auto, Daily Driver
'87 GT - 5spd, Project Car
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
So now you'd better stop and rebuild all your ruins,
For peace and trust can win the day despite of all your losing

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Fieromaniac
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Report this Post10-09-2008 12:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieromaniacClick Here to visit Fieromaniac's HomePageSend a Private Message to FieromaniacEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
first weightbalancing without rings and rods
just removed some productionrests of the pistons



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Report this Post10-09-2008 04:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IntelClick Here to visit Intel's HomePageSend a Private Message to IntelEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I really like this thread!
Nice to see someone on a mission and with the prices on those parts you would be a fool not to overhaul that engine!

+ for you
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Fieromaniac
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Report this Post10-25-2008 03:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieromaniacClick Here to visit Fieromaniac's HomePageSend a Private Message to FieromaniacEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
started with the heads today
first to do : valves out
















dunno if the exhaust valves are saveable

























cleaned the head a little

[This message has been edited by Fieromaniac (edited 10-25-2008).]

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Report this Post10-25-2008 04:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I just came upon this thread... I have to give you props for rescuing that abused little 2.8. Many, (including myself) would have turned it in as scrap iron. This is an interesting build up.
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Fieromaniac
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Report this Post10-26-2008 02:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieromaniacClick Here to visit Fieromaniac's HomePageSend a Private Message to FieromaniacEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
wetsanding the intakes for smooth surfaces



porting the head









after wetsanding





before pic



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Fieromaniac
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Report this Post10-27-2008 06:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FieromaniacClick Here to visit Fieromaniac's HomePageSend a Private Message to FieromaniacEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
had luck at ebay again

16$ for complete performance valve spring set (clevite)
15$ oilpump overhaulkit

still needed :

- hardened retainers and valvekeepers
- lower gasket set
- exhaust Y-pipe , cat ,egr tube
- new valves ( maybe )
- Rockerarms 1:1.52
- plugs, cables, some sensors ,filters

and last but not least a liquid propane injection system
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Fieromaniac
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Report this Post10-31-2008 04:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FieromaniacClick Here to visit Fieromaniac's HomePageSend a Private Message to FieromaniacEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
found out that the valves are stainless steel already
( not magnetic ) but there are micro weldings on all of the exhaust valves and it would take me years
to get a good surface with my tools so i will get new valves because the seats are ok

question is now what valve is the better choice for a propane powered engine standard or stainless ?
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Fieromaniac
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Report this Post11-01-2008 12:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieromaniacClick Here to visit Fieromaniac's HomePageSend a Private Message to FieromaniacEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
head intakeside done







exhaust side





before



after grinding







size before



size after



polished







2 done ,1 to go

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