I went to pull my 88 GT out of the garage and after starting it went to put it in reverse and of course it wouldn't go in on the first try so went to put it into 1st and that wouldn't go in either. Attempted to put it in all the gears and it was like the shifter was hitting a brick wall. I turned the car off to see if it would shift into the gears and it does just fine. I was thinking air in the lines and bled the system (Archie's way plus rear driver side jacked up) but only one little bubble came out. Decided to try and take it for a drive to see how it acted. Started up already in reverse and pulled out of the driveway and go to shift into first and it wont go. I turned the car off shifted it into first and then proceeded to drive. I was able to shift into all the gears just fine while moving. I get back into the garage and after I stopped tried shifting and couldn't get into any gear. Any advice would be greatly appreciated because I'm at a loss on this one.
I would say it's about an inch or so eyeballing it.
Well, that would appear then to rule out a bent pedal.
The next thing for you to do is to measure how far the slave is actually moving when the clutch pedal is put to the floor.
My experience is that although an Isuzu requires a full 1-1/16" of slave travel to completely disengage the clutch, a Getrag (which is what you have) will get away with a bit less.
Let us know what you find. If you've got less than an inch of travel, I suspect there is still air in the hydraulics. And if you have a single-seal slave, I suspect that's where the air is getting in.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 08-27-2025).]
I'd say Patrick is on the right track in that the clutch is not disengaging. Follow his suggestions. Another item to check is the possibility of a bent clutch fork but air in the clutch hydrauic system in a common cause. Could be a leaky master or clutch slave clutch cylinder. Is the clutch original to the car?
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 08-27-2025).]
Well, that would appear then to rule out a bent pedal.
The next thing for you to do is to measure how far the slave is actually moving when the clutch pedal is put to the floor.
My experience is that although an Isuzu requires a full 1-1/16" of slave travel to completely disengage the clutch, a Getrag (which is what you have) will get away with a bit less.
Let us know what you find. If you've got less than an inch of travel, I suspect there is still air in the hydraulics. And if you have a single-seal slave, I suspect that's where the air is getting in.
I will have to wait until the weekend to measure it when I have an assistant available, aka my daughter. I have a Rodney slave that I installed about 2 months ago. I'm going to try bleeding again tonight and see if that helps.
I'd say Patrick is on the right track in that the clutch is not disengaging. Follow his suggestions. Another item to check is the possibility of a bent clutch fork but air in the clutch hydrauic system in a common cause. Could be a leaky master or clutch slave clutch cylinder. Is the clutch original to the car?
I'm hoping you guys are right that it's air in the system, really don't want to have to drop the engine to check at this time. I think it's the original clutch, but not 100% sure. I don't remember seeing any records of a clutch change in the records of the previous owners, but will double check.
Please keep us updated as to your progress and the final solution, especially if it's something odd. I had a lot of issues getting mine going when I first half-restored my Fiero. It's been over a decade, but if my memory serves me correctly, I think I ended up going with Rodney's Isuzu slave and custom length pushrod on my Getrag- whatever it was it's worked perfectly ever since.
**Update** I bled the system again last night and nothing changed. Decided to drive it into work this morning since it shifts fine while moving. I get about 10 minutes from home and was approaching a stop light and went to downshift, and heard a snap/clunk/breaking sound down in the footwell or front trunk area couldn't tell. Clutch pedal turned into a pendulum. Thankfully I was able to coast it into a parking lot where it now sits until after work. Ordered a new master cylinder that will be arriving tomorrow.
The banjo? Unless it was already bent, that would be awfully unusual. You also stated that the clutch pedal sat an inch above the brake pedal, so it's doubtful the banjo was bent.
Will be interesting to hear what actually happened.
When installing the new clutch master (and/or banjo), make sure the loop of the banjo is mounted facing up on the pedal.
CLICK FOR FULL SIZE
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 08-29-2025).]
I realize that this is not the suggestions that people with manual shift Fieros want to hear but on an automobile 35-40 years old and after thousands of shifts, high miles ,the master and slave cylinders are most likely beyond their useful life. You can check the fork and the pedal for straightness and if OK they can be reused. I would just replace the master and slave cylinders and bleed the system but note, we have read reports that not all brands of slave cylinder seal well.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
My Two Cents: I replaced my '88 Clutch Master and Slave Cylinders With: Schaeffler LuK LMC501 Dorman CS37794 PLUS Rodney's Dual Seal Slave Piston {which are STILL available} https://rodneydickman.com/p....php?products_id=288
------------------ Original Owner of a Silver '88 GT Under 'Production Refurbishment' @ 136k Miles
I agree that you should be choosy when replacing master and slave cylinders. I think I bought two+ auto parts store slave cylinders that were useless before going with Rodney Dickman's expensive one- and Rodney's was more than worth the extra money.
I think I bought two+ auto parts store slave cylinders that were useless before going with Rodney Dickman's expensive one- and Rodney's was more than worth the extra money.
Totally in agreement that Rodney's clutch slave cylinders (equipped with the double seals) are worth the extra expense. The single seal slaves sold elsewhere are crap.
However, it's been my experience that the clutch master cylinder is much less critical, and the cheapest aftermarket units will suffice. The adjustable banjo on Rodney's clutch masters are nice, but an adjustable banjo can easily be fabricated for about two bucks.
Well the car is back home, but haven't had a chance to look at it yet. The tow truck driver had me shift into neutral when he went to pull the car out of the parking spot by lifting by the rear tires. He then lowered and had me put it back in first while he hooked up the dolly wheels to the front wheels. He lifted the rear some and off he went. He parked it right in front of my garage when he arrived so I could easily push it in.
Well after he unhooked everything and took off I went to put it in neutral and it wouldnt shift. I popped the hood and tried to shift it by hand on the transmission and it wouldnt move either.
Could the tow have possible messed something up in the transmission?
Well after he unhooked everything and took off I went to put it in neutral and it wouldnt shift. I popped the hood and tried to shift it by hand on the transmission and it wouldnt move either.
Well sure, with no clutch disengagement, the gears in the tranny probably have some pressure on them. Rock the car back and forth while trying to take it out of gear.
Got the car in the garage, thanks for the tip Patrick. Well the verdict is the banjo came off the post and found what was being used for the pin on the floor. Going to pick up a proper pin in the morning and reattach the banjo. Hopefully that is all it is.
Well the verdict is the banjo came off the post and found what was being used for the pin on the floor. Going to pick up a proper pin in the morning and reattach the banjo.
It's (almost) always the simplest things!
While you're under the dash, check to make sure the clutch master isn't leaking. If it is, you'll notice evidence of fluid in the carpet padding around the area where the banjo comes through the floor.
After it's all together, measure how far the slave is moving when the clutch pedal is put to the floor.
Well I reattached the banjo and the same problem was there. About an hour ago my new master cylinder showed up, I bench bled it then installed and did a full bleeding from the slave cylinder. Still not shifting into gear while stopped. I will have a helper tomorrow so i can see what kind of travel i'm getting on the slave. Wondering if it is the pedal and my calibrated eye isn't working properly lol.
I do but my scale is at work right now and I cant find my other one. I should have measured to start with. Used a paint mixing stick across the clutch peddle and was getting about 3/4" above the brake peddle. Looks like im taking the peddle off tomorrow. Ive read the write-ups about doing it, and I'm not looking forward to this.
Used a paint mixing stick across the clutch peddle and was getting about 3/4" above the brake peddle. Looks like im taking the peddle off tomorrow. Ive read the write-ups about doing it, and I'm not looking forward to this.
IMO, removing the pedal in this instance is a waste of time and energy. 3/4" above the brake pedal at rest is close enough.
If it turns out that your slave is not moving at least an inch (and if there's no air in the system), do what I and many others have done with great success... use an adjustable banjo.
Thanks for bringing that up I forgot he had the adjustable banjo. Have you had any issues with additional pedal bending after installing the adjustable banjo?
Have you had any issues with additional pedal bending after installing the adjustable banjo?
No... but I need to emphasize that an adjustable banjo will not fix your problem if the real culprit is air being sucked past a leaking clutch slave seal.
