Ok, don't laugh... but here's a thought. My daughter took her Fiero to a car show for the first time (yes, her videos are way behind for anyone who watches them)... and she saw several cars with turbos on them. We plan to build another Fiero eventually, but she wanted to know if it was possible to add a turbo to her Iron Duke without modifying too much.
I'm just curious... are there any "really mild" turbo kits that one could add to a stock Iron Duke that perhaps could increase the horsepower around 15hp or so? Her Fiero actually runs amazing, by the way, way way quicker than any Iron Duke I've ever remembered owning. But I'm just thinking something that adds a couple of pounds of boost. Nothing crazy at all. She has more or less stock compression, but perhaps a little more since the head was planed.
Any thoughts?
I'm probably going to recommend against this, but it could be a good teaching moment to show her how it all works.
Turbo Dukes have been built before. At one time there were two sources of Duke turbo charger kits ; IRM and Pfaff. They faded out with the introduction of the V6 and because owners went to far with them. By resetting the waste gate and jacking up the boost beyond the recommended 5 psi the engines blew up. my opinion is that light boost will liven up things if used carefully and with a larger throttle body and a program reset or a boost ignition contoller..
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Honestly, have her save up and buy a Superduty motor. There have been many people on here who either added or bought a car with a turbo system. Most barely ran due to lack of tuning and the rest came apart under full throttle.
There is a person on Youtube who ran 18lbs of boost in his S-10 with the iron duke. He ended up with a lot of blow-by on gaskets and seals.
[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 01-21-2025).]
They took the iron Duke way up the HP curve with CI and tuning mods....But I don't remember any turbo versions.
The big problem with turbos is turbo-lag....You give throttle (Nothing)...give it more throttle (Still nothing)....FLOOR IT!- and then it comes in hard and you lose control.
Back in 1988, I was sitting at a light waiting to make a left turn....88 Turbo T-bird comes up behind me and he starts revving his engine.....so the light turns green and I get on it thru the turn...look in rearview mirror...he's obviously trying to keep up....suddenly his rear slides to his right, then he over-corrects and turns the car hard right and he smashes into a tree!
I went back and asked if he was alright- He was pissed and stated I was keeping him from getting car home...Whole front end was smashed in and steam coming out of engine/radiator....
Build engine up or go with a belt-driven SUPER charger....
[This message has been edited by cvxjet (edited 01-21-2025).]
I wouldn't do it on the iron Duke, especially not on this Fiero, go crazy on the second, but it's nice to have an "original" Fiero, I would use a different/newer/stronger engine, that remains similar to what came in the car, I don't know if there are any like that for the iron Duke, but like how I'm using a 2004 3400 block and bottom end, Fiero heads and intake, looks original, practically is original, but it is stronger and can hold up to boost etc. I actually just tore down my 2.8, dropped the cradle, and pulled out my old 4 speed last night, and next day I work on it, I'll pull the block out, put my 3400 block and F23 transmission in. I've already picked a spot for the turbo, and gotten the intake/exhaust paths routed, and all this is with basic tools, a jack and jack stands, I got an engine stand so I could work on the new engine, but no hoists, lifts, etc, I manually lifted the block onto the floor jack to bring it up to the engine stand haha. I happen to have an f23 transmission now that has the ecotec bell housing, and I had the crazy idea of finding a junked Fiero (no engine/trans) and doing a f23/turbo ecotec Fiero, I think that would be a pretty fun engine in a Fiero, I'd do that if I wanted a 4 cyl turbo build, and would totally do that right now if I had money haha, which I don't!
The big problem with turbos is turbo-lag....You give throttle (Nothing)...give it more throttle (Still nothing)....FLOOR IT!- and then it comes in hard and you lose control.
This past weekend I had the opportunity to drive a friend's ultra-expensive track prepared turbocharged 1999 BMW Z3 M Coupe at an autocross event. The engine in this car is supposed to be putting out 500 HP or so.
When the turbo kicks in... it's exhilarating. However...
The car and engine have been set up for high speed track use. The huge turbo on this engine doesn't do anything until 4000 RPM. It was frustrating as hell at autocross this past weekend as I'd be putting the pedal to the floor and screaming at the engine to do something! I'd be waiting up to two seconds for the power to arrive. Simply wasn't suitable for autocross.
I'm just mentioning this as it was my first experience driving a turbo-equipped car, and it was a little disappointing. Turbo size is obviously critical for a car used on the street and/or at autocross.
I emphasized the last sentence above, as I currently drive a JDM Subie with a correctly sized turbo from the factory, and it's a monster. Absolutely no turbo lag.
Having said that, I don't recommend that Todd wastes his time putting a turbo on a duke.
I personally wouldnt spend my time with putting a turbo in an Iron Duke, as they are already slow as is. The low RPM, and cast Iron build really really limits what kind of boost and how large the turbo can be. I like the idea of getting a v6 and swapping 3400 parts into one to get it up to speed to handle a larger turbo. Maybe even getting a whole new engine like a K series or LS, both of which respond to turbos really well but can be dangerous if you put too much power in them.
The problem with these old Iron block engines is that you really can put too much power into them. I saw a guy online put a John Deere turbo on an old iron block Midget, believe he pushed like 12 psi and ended up spitting oil out of the exhaust not even after 15 miles. The Iron Duke is probably in the same position. They are just built bad.
bottom line, the Iron duke is just not that great of an engine, and putting a turbo on it would definietly be risky.
I honestly think it would be a pretty funny project for shits and giggles. getting it to actually drive reliably would be sick.
a good setup for a duke is actually an amr500 supercharger. I've ran 2 on a ford 300 to keep up with its Displacement spinning them halfway to lightspeedz however it's made for a 1 liter for for a fiero it might get you that 15 hp and be close enough. a better use of a duke would be to start from square one building for boost. like using the heavy duty block from a s10 and going with not cast pistons and a standard duty s10 crank. that setup with bolts should be able to handle 8 psi comfortably in theory. the real solution is to build the duke up a bit to get her comfortable like getting a spare head and getting it ported, polished and shaved to bump compression and the bonus is it's a bolt on, the real limiter of the duke in the fiero is honestly the block though....very very weak as I've found out twice now with stock dukes
Just from memory, in 1984-1985, the Duke Pfaff Turbo kit boosted the power to about 130 crankshaft horsepower. on 5 psi of boost. That's a fairly low boost level. The engine had to have a larger throttle body installed to get more fuel and air to the engine. The ECM used a new program.. The problem with the kit is that some owners re-adjusted the waste gate to make higher boost and horsepower. This caused engines to fail. That and the introduction of the 2.8L V6 caused the kits to be discontinued. Hi-Tech turbo from IRM was the other source of the Duke turbo kits. All said the cost and work involved in boosting the Duke to 130 HP is probably not worth the effort. There is a guy on You Tube that made 200 HP with a Duke engine and the crankshaft did not hold up. .
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
A less expensive option for HP and near instantaneous throttle response. You can dial in the power by changing the nitrous jet. A 25 shot dry system would give a Duke around 30% more HP on demand.
Well... I would love to put a Chrysler PT Cruiser turbo motor in a Fiero. Same basic configuration as the duke motor. 4 cyl. 5 speed. But, 170 to 225 HP. All day long. That's double the dukes power, no weight gain and factory style reliability. Just a thought. JM
Well... I would love to put a Chrysler PT Cruiser turbo motor in a Fiero. Same basic configuration as the duke motor. 4 cyl. 5 speed. But, 170 to 225 HP. All day long. That's double the dukes power, no weight gain and factory style reliability. Just a thought. JM
Ideas and reality often do not coincide. Going outside the realm of swapping a non-GM engine into a GM car never designed for it, presents some really difficult challenges. It has been done before with intense fabrication and wiring for the most profound enthusiast. Even some GM swaps are hard to do so this job is far more that most would ever hope to do .
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Thanks guys, I'm just considering options... but I totally get what you guys are saying about Turbo and Turbo lag. Years ago, my wife had a 2002 1.8T Jetta. It was sluggish off the line, and then the Turbo would kick in and the tires would be burning rubber by the time I was already on the other side of the intersection (185hp version). It was the wildest feeling. I had the same experience with an RX-7 Turbo-2 from back in the day.
Definitely inconvenient when power comes on hard in the middle of a turn.
I agree with you Dennis. It would be tons of work. Mechanically I don't think it would be that difficult with the exception of the intercooler and designing a motor plate. Making it run would be the trick. Stand alone computer perhaps...