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Ignition key cylinder problem by cvxjet
Started on: 01-14-2025 01:15 PM
Replies: 10 (190 views)
Last post by: Vintage-Nut on 01-21-2025 10:41 AM
cvxjet
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Report this Post01-14-2025 01:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
A few years ago I realized my ignition key cylinder was broken- You could turn it without the key! So I bought a replacement and had a friend install it....worked good for a while- then it started acting odd; When I shut off the engine and pulled the key, I would hit the trunk button, but instead of popping the trunk, the brake light would come on and I would hear a ding (No- the ding was not in my head!) After jiggling the key flange, I could then pop the trunk.

A few weeks ago I had it replaced again- this time I made sure that it was an AC/Delco unit.....IT has the same problem and also kind of catches when turning to start....

I believe that the AC/Delco cylinders are (Basically) no good.....so I was wondering, A) Have any of you had this problem?.....and B) Do any of you have a suggestion which Ignition cylinder to buy?

Thanks for any assistance!

[This message has been edited by cvxjet (edited 01-14-2025).]

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Vintage-Nut
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Report this Post01-14-2025 01:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Vintage-NutSend a Private Message to Vintage-NutEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
In your last thread:

Key off but trunk won't pop by cvxjet
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/148211.html

In that thread, I assumed that you have a manual transaxle and listed troubleshooting hints...

You didn't respond

Did you solve your "Key off but trunk won't pop" problem?

If no, do you have an automatic transaxle?
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cvxjet
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Report this Post01-14-2025 02:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
A) I couldn't find that old post...sorry about creating a secondary post....

B) If it sits for a while I can then pop the trunk...so everything is good except what the key/lock is doing...and to add, Even when it wouldn't pop due to the key, I could pull the parking brake lever and get it to pop.

C) It is a manual- and also, I have both 1985 and 1988 Fiero service manuals.....

D) When I try to start the car or turn it off, the key lock/cylinder hangs up just a bit, and then I have to jiggle it...

E) The friend who installed the first and second lock owns a body shop and knows what he is doing- we had discussion before he installed the latest one and he stated he would examine the situation as he installed the lock.
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Report this Post01-14-2025 04:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Vintage-NutSend a Private Message to Vintage-NutEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
A) https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/148211.html

 
quote
B) If it sits for a while I can then pop the trunk...so everything is good except what the key/lock is doing...and to add, Even when it wouldn't pop due to the key, I could pull the parking brake lever and get it to pop.


The key/lock problem has nothing to do with the trunk release problem.

The trunk release switch is HOT at all times and the ground for the relay coil comes from the parking brake switch. You MUST pull the parking brake lever and get it to pop!

I cannot help with the key/lock problem...

Second Thought {EDIT} My suggestion for the key/lock problem - try powdered graphite...

I use powdered graphite in the door locks when they won't open; shoot some in the lock and on the key and install, turn, repeat...

[This message has been edited by Vintage-Nut (edited 01-14-2025).]

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cvxjet
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Report this Post01-16-2025 03:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
OK....The Fiero is set up so that you cannot open the trunk while the engine is on....only option while the engine is on is to set the parking brake.


But, when the engine is OFF (And key removed) the trunk pop switch will work- Even without the parking brake set; I have owned this 1985 Fiero since new, and almost never set the parking brake- especially when parked in the garage, and also since I swapped the 88 brakes onto it- and found out that it is A) almost impossible to get good replacement rear calipers, and B) also almost impossible to properly rebuild the 88 rear calipers....never had a problem popping the trunk.

But now it will not even when the key is removed- ever since I swapped out the ORIGINAL key lock cylinder....
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Report this Post01-16-2025 04:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IMSA GTSend a Private Message to IMSA GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You might need to look into the electronic side of the ignition switch. See this thread and the very last picture he posts. Right below the last picture, he goes over what SHOULD happen when you turn the key.
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/...090907-2-090390.html

[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 01-16-2025).]

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Report this Post01-17-2025 07:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Vintage-NutSend a Private Message to Vintage-NutEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
cvxjet:
But, when the engine is OFF (And key removed) the trunk pop switch will work- Even without the parking brake set...


Obviously, you believe that the '85 trunk release relay coil has TWO separate ground paths.

However, my '88 has only one...

EDIT
Seems '85 is a little different than the '86-'88 plus:
 
quote
The Ogre's Fiero Cave:
Some people tell me that the trunk latch operates even without pulling the hand brake in stick cars. This should not happen according to GM schematics. This could be yet another factory wiring error or defects in the hand brake switch wiring.


SO - If your trunk release will pop the solenoid when the Parking Brake is NOT engaged; *that* ground path is NOT in the GM schematics...

Do you really KNOW *that* ground path isn't in the GM schematics? Please do tell!

[This message has been edited by Vintage-Nut (edited 01-17-2025).]

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sleek fiero
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Report this Post01-17-2025 10:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sleek fieroSend a Private Message to sleek fieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My 85 GT has always been that ign off park brake off that I could reach in and pop the engine hatch. The only time I had a problem was when the ground wire to the metal plate in the hatch needed cleaning to re=establish the ground. sleek
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cvxjet
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Report this Post01-21-2025 12:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Vintage-Nut:


SO - If your trunk release will pop the solenoid when the Parking Brake is NOT engaged; *that* ground path is NOT in the GM schematics...

Do you really KNOW *that* ground path isn't in the GM schematics? Please do tell!



I have looked at the dang schematic- and it does not show how the Manual-Trans cars can allow their trunk to be opened via the rocker switch when the key is off but the P-brake is not set- but I can prove it does with a video. I have owned this Fiero since new (May 22, 1985) and it has always done this- until I had the new lock installed...and it still does it after it has sat for an hour or so. I also know numerous Fiero owners in the GGF club and many of them have done this while I was with them.

Maybe your car is defective if it does not allow it.....

[This message has been edited by cvxjet (edited 01-21-2025).]

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Report this Post01-21-2025 07:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Vintage-NutSend a Private Message to Vintage-NutEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
LZeitgeist:
I know on my '88's, the trunk release won't work unless the parking brake is set...

Mine Too

As I mentioned, the '85 trunk release schematic is different than '86-'88 models, but BOTH circuits {'85 and '86-'88} show ONE ground path to the relay coil to power the solenoid.
 
quote
The Ogre's Fiero Cave:
Some people tell me that the trunk latch operates even without pulling the hand brake in stick cars. This should not happen according to GM schematics. This could be yet another factory wiring error OR defects in the hand brake switch wiring.



 
quote
I have looked at the dang schematic- and it does not show how the Manual-Trans cars can allow their trunk to be opened via the rocker switch when the key is off but the P-brake is not set- but I can prove it does with a video

I really believe you, BUT the 'real question' is:
*GM Schematic Error?
*Defects in Fiero Wiring?


 
quote
cvxjet: until I had the new lock installed


FYI - All Years {84-88} Ignition Switches: The OFF/LOCK positions does not connect to the vehicle

[This message has been edited by Vintage-Nut (edited 01-21-2025).]

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Vintage-Nut
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Report this Post01-21-2025 10:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Vintage-NutSend a Private Message to Vintage-NutEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Vintage-Nut

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Member since Apr 2020
 
quote
cvxjet:
when the engine is OFF (And key removed) the trunk pop switch will work- Even without the parking brake set


 
quote
sleek fiero:
My 85 GT has always been that ign off park brake off that I could reach in and pop the engine hatch.


 
quote
theogre:
84-85 trunk popper is 1 wire to 1 wire at hinge (C402) then to C500.


Clearly, the '85 trunk release has TWO separate paths with a single wire to the deck lid release:
*Trunk Relay Coil Grounded @ the Parking Brake Switch
*Off/Lock when Parking Brake Not Engaged

{'86-'88 trunk release has 4 wires into a plug at the deck lid}

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

SO, I do not know anything about a '85; can anyone please remove their '85 Trunk Relay, then test with the Key Off/Lock and Parking Brake Not Engaged?

With the Relay Out, Does the Trunk Solenoid will Work or Not? {GM schematic says No}

If NO, with a Voltmeter:
+Probe @ relay "B" socket and -Probe @ relay "A" socket
Then Push Trunk Switch and Read the Voltmeter

Does the meter read a path?

[This message has been edited by Vintage-Nut (edited 01-21-2025).]

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