What's the latest on fuel injectors? Any favorites? How quickly do they ware? High pressure fluid forced through a tiny orifice must have some effect over time. My 2.8 is over 200 k and it's time for a general engine "refreshment". Do I want to consider new injectors?
What's the latest on fuel injectors? Any favorites? How quickly do they ware? High pressure fluid forced through a tiny orifice must have some effect over time. My 2.8 is over 200 k and it's time for a general engine "refreshment". Do I want to consider new injectors?
Yellow-88
I'm starting to see a trend here. Have you considered running a can of Seafoam through your engine? It's a white can with red lettering that you can get from the local auto parts store. Drive to the gas station, pour in a can, and then immediately fill up. After a couple of days of driving, it will completely clean out your injectors, most intake passages, and strip most of the carbon deposits off your valves and piston tops. If you've never done this before, it's a must. The engine will immediately start running "like new." It's nothing short of magic. It's especially critical that you do this on cars that have an EGR system, because the EGR coats everything with soot.
As for your question... the Fiero has the "pintle" style of injectors. These are ideal for what you'll want to use... but they are harder to find. The Fiero uses 15# injectors, which is optimized for a stock Fiero. They're actually larger injectors than what other 2.8L MPFI cars came with that same year. Vast majority of all the other 2.8 engines in GM cars got 13# injectors.
The only reason why anyone would need / want to replace their injectors is if they've stopped working, or they're leaking (meaning they drip fuel when the car is turned off... and that can cause a start-up cloud), or they're upgrading their engine (hotter camshaft, or an engine swap). Otherwise it's relatively useless.
Thank you. I was wondering if injector cleaner actually works or if I need it. I don't have any notable symptoms, just high mileage. It sounds like it can't hurt anything. So to add a question, can injectors fail form old age? Besides a leak or open circuit what else can go wrong?
A local guy is still running an all original 2.8 at nearly 500K miles. Original injectors. The biggest enemy of fuel injectors is letting a car sit for many many years.
82-T/A's info about other 2.8's using 13# injectors is because injector size is determined by the number of cylinders and HP and usually fuel pressure at 43.5 psi. Pontiac changed the top end of the 2.8 to increase the HP from around 110 HP in most applications to 140 in the Fiero.
Thank you. I was wondering if injector cleaner actually works or if I need it. I don't have any notable symptoms, just high mileage. It sounds like it can't hurt anything. So to add a question, can injectors fail form old age? Besides a leak or open circuit what else can go wrong?
Yellow-88
There are a lot of injector cleaners out there... like hundreds of them. The only two that I've ever seen actually work are:
BG-44 (hard to find) Seafoam (everywhere)
pour an entire can in your tank, but do so just before you fill up. You don't want to run it on a 1/4 or 1/2 tank or it could burn up your catalytic converter. I did this on a 1997 Grand Am GT back in like 2001.
After 1/2 a tank of driving around, your car will run like it's brand new. I cannot emphasize this enough.
Please don’t use fuel injector cleaner or seafoam on these injectors ,,, if you do do not let the car sit for long period of time I’ve done many testing and these injectors do not like cleaners seafoam or ethanol , I did find one cleaner but it’s only used when I sonic bath them and flow test them ,,,, If you want the set you have flow tested and refurbish I do offer that or unless you want to purchase a set I can take your old set as a core
Pull your injectors out and take them to a mechanic that can clean and refurbish them (new o-rings, etc.). The mechanic should use a device where he can see the spray pattern and be able to measure the flow rate. What you want is a match flow-rate on all cylinders.
Please don’t use fuel injector cleaner or seafoam on these injectors ,,, if you do do not let the car sit for long period of time I’ve done many testing and these injectors do not like cleaners seafoam or ethanol , I did find one cleaner but it’s only used when I sonic bath them and flow test them ,,,, If you want the set you have flow tested and refurbish I do offer that or unless you want to purchase a set I can take your old set as a core
I was suggesting running "fuel injector cleaner" through the gas tank... to clean everything... not specifically soaking the injectors in them. I've used Seafoam for almost 3 decades, and it almost always returns my car to running "like new." But yes, I would concur... you want to drive the car once you put it in there, don't let it sit in the fuel lines.
Just run Top Tier gas that has same cleaners in all grades for 1 or more tanks can clean injectors etc w/o ruining them like some aftermarket cleaners. Most Big Brands & some small brands are TOP TIER™ Retailers so you don't need to look very hard to find one or may already use one.
Seafoam MMO & others can Poison the Cat no matter the marketing by markers or others claim here. Any oil(s) etc not burn in the engine can, often will, cause overheat problems for the cat, plug it &/or reacts w/ the media and all ruins the cat. Easier on old cars w/ cats near end of life because often have abuse before. If you kill a Cat in CA NY & growing number of others requiring CARB Approve Cat replacement, expect a Very High $ Bill just in parts.
Many Older GM & other injectors can be wreck by aftermarket cleaners including "pro grade" types sold only to auto shops. Many have the coils in directly contact w/ fuel & these added cleaners can "eat" the insulation of the coil. May not happen right away but damage is done & permanent. Note: "Techron" @ retailers is NOT same Techron use/used by Chevron in Fuel.
OEM made them to handle ≤ 10% ethanol, ≤ 5% Methanol, 0% of others alcohols.
Even 300 & 220 TBI injector unit on Dukes & V8 isn't happy above those limits. I believe 700 TBI injector unit is made for higher ethanol in gas like E85 but hates most others and the rest of fuel system doesn't like > 10% Ethanol.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
Please don’t use fuel injector cleaner or seafoam on these injectors ,,, if you do do not let the car sit for long period of time I’ve done many testing and these injectors do not like cleaners seafoam or ethanol , I did find one cleaner but it’s only used when I sonic bath them and flow test them ,,,, If you want the set you have flow tested and refurbish I do offer that or unless you want to purchase a set I can take your old set as a core
You surely see more injectors then anyone on this forum, so I ask. When a customer sends you a set of injectors, how often do they flow "unequally"? How do you "refurbish them? Are some simply no longer serviceable? What damages them? What do you charge for your service?
A lot has been said about the product "Seafoam" and you do not endorse its use. Please explain why.
Besides changing a filter screen, and flushing them with cleaning solvent, fuel injectors are essentially non-serviceable.
A good bet is probably to have two stock sets cleaned and measured, and then you can select the ones that the closest fuel flow rates for use in the engine.
It is not guaranteed that the six injectors you have will be good after cleaning.
I had a set of 6 cleaned and tested, and one of them leaked (cannot be repaired).
Besides changing a filter screen, and flushing them with cleaning solvent, fuel injectors are essentially non-serviceable.
A good bet is probably to have two stock sets cleaned and measured, and then you can select the ones that the closest fuel flow rates for use in the engine.
It is not guaranteed that the six injectors you have will be good after cleaning.
I had a set of 6 cleaned and tested, and one of them leaked (cannot be repaired).
Sometimes, when you send the injectors in to be cleaned/flow tested, they'll first be tested to make sure they're salvageable. Most places will do that for free so you don't get charged for injectors that can't be saved. I sent my injectors in recently and am waiting to hear back on whether they can be brought back to life or not. My project had been sitting for 10ish years before I bought it and the fuel pressure regulator completely deteriorated so the injectors are totally clogged. If mine can be saved, I assume most can.
Sometimes, when you send the injectors in to be cleaned/flow tested, they'll first be tested to make sure they're salvageable. Most places will do that for free so you don't get charged for injectors that can't be saved. I sent my injectors in recently and am waiting to hear back on whether they can be brought back to life or not. My project had been sitting for 10ish years before I bought it and the fuel pressure regulator completely deteriorated so the injectors are totally clogged. If mine can be saved, I assume most can.
Hey Jump, where did you send your injectors?
I have a rare set of 17lb Accel fuel injectors that have less than 10k miles on them... BUT, they've been in a car that's been sitting for 14 years. I can't find the replacement ones with the pintles... and I definitely want to get them rehabbed...
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: I can't find the replacement ones with the pintles... and I definitely want to get them rehabbed...
The Fiero engine doesn't need pintle-type injectors.
The Fiero ECM's factory tune assumes pintle-type injectors, so if you want to use a stock Fiero ECM and stock tune, then you should use pintle-type injectors.
If you will be using a custom tune and/or a different engine computer, then there is no strong reason for you to stick with a pintle injector.
The Fiero engine doesn't need pintle-type injectors.
The Fiero ECM's factory tune assumes pintle-type injectors, so if you want to use a stock Fiero ECM and stock tune, then you should use pintle-type injectors.
If you will be using a custom tune and/or a different engine computer, then there is no strong reason for you to stick with a pintle injector.
For Yellow's application, he has a stock ECM, with no modifications.
For me though, I am planning on going with an aftermarket ECM (more than likely the FAST EZ-EFI 2.0 system, but I also have a MicroSquirt w/ 8' harness). I simply want to re-use them because they have such low miles... but it depends on whether or not I can get them cleaned, and which system I decide to use. The EZ-EFI 2.0 supports SFI, while the MicroSquirt does not. I suppose SFI vs MPFI makes little difference in overall horsepower, but it does give better optimized performance in the lower to mid-range RPM.
I mean, I have the Accel injectors, they worked great until I wiped a cam lobe... so I'll probably re-use them.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Hey Jump, where did you send your injectors?
I have a rare set of 17lb Accel fuel injectors that have less than 10k miles on them... BUT, they've been in a car that's been sitting for 14 years. I can't find the replacement ones with the pintles... and I definitely want to get them rehabbed...
thanks!
Jim at Injector Repair LLC is servicing them for me. I just spoke with him on the phone and he said that my injectors should be salvageable! He's gonna try and break them all free and then get back to me.
Originally posted by jumpmonkey: Jim at Injector Repair LLC is servicing them for me. I just spoke with him on the phone and he said that my injectors should be salvageable! He's gonna try and break them all free and then get back to me.
