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Washer size for oil drain bolt by fierobear
Started on: 05-06-2024 10:58 AM
Replies: 12 (122 views)
Last post by: fierobear on 05-09-2024 03:01 PM
fierobear
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Report this Post05-06-2024 10:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierobearSend a Private Message to fierobearEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I can't find what size of washer to use on the oil pan drain bolt, application 88 stock V6. Checked the 22P, and it doesn't show a washer. There's an oil leak, and it looks like it's from the drain plug. I'm pretty sure I snugged it well when doing the last (recent) oil change.
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css9450
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Report this Post05-06-2024 11:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for css9450Send a Private Message to css9450Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Did your car have a washer there previously? Mine didn't - it has the usual GM style drain plug bolt with integral hard plastic (or rubber?) seal permanently attached to it.
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fierobear
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Report this Post05-06-2024 11:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierobearSend a Private Message to fierobearEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by css9450:

Did your car have a washer there previously? Mine didn't - it has the usual GM style drain plug bolt with integral hard plastic (or rubber?) seal permanently attached to it.


I'm pretty sure it didn't have a plastic seal, but had a separate washer. I'll have to give it a look. Problem is, the car is still full of fresh oil. Was hoping not to have to dump all the oil to figure this out.
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Report this Post05-06-2024 12:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by css9450:
Did your car have a washer there previously? Mine didn't - it has the usual GM style drain plug bolt with integral hard plastic (or rubber?) seal permanently attached to it.
GM didn't use a "permanent" washer/seal there.

I think was a copper "crush" washer/seal sim to brake hose washer seals. In any case the washer/seal require to replace @ each oil change but many ignore & wonder why plug leaks &/or wreck the hole.

Many use Nylon like Dorman Nylon Rib Drain Plug Gasket https://www.dormanproducts....01377-097-118cd.aspx
Mainly because will crush to seal on many damage drain holes.

Example: My car had a narrow aluminum crush that doesn't cover the whole plug head that cone the hole so nothing else could seal except nylon like above or flat nylon.

Worse, many don't even have the right Plug that does damage to the hole too.
GM & more use this format plug to spread clamping force over wide area in the stamp steel pan. That is a "flange head bolt" not any type of washer on a bolt.

Is Not an OE plug just a format example. I don't have a spare or time to find a good pic of a "Fiero" oil plug.

You want a washer/seal that matches the flange area.

Many use a Magnetic plug but often they have problems sealing too.

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fierobear
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Report this Post05-06-2024 01:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierobearSend a Private Message to fierobearEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks, Ogre

I looked up the part you listed, but the Dorman site said it doesn't fit the Fiero. Here's what Dorman's website came up with for the Fiero V6:

Dorman p/n 090-034CD
Oil Drain Plug Pilot Point M12-1.75, Head Size 15Mm
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css9450
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Report this Post05-06-2024 02:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for css9450Send a Private Message to css9450Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by theogre:

GM didn't use a "permanent" washer/seal there.



Every GM car I've ever had came with one of these. They had no washer.

EDIT: Do people actually replace that seal? Seems one would need a pick or something to get the old one out.

I've never had one leak.

[This message has been edited by css9450 (edited 05-06-2024).]

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css9450
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Report this Post05-06-2024 02:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for css9450Send a Private Message to css9450Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

css9450

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Member since Nov 2002
...

[This message has been edited by css9450 (edited 05-06-2024).]

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theogre
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Report this Post05-06-2024 03:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
097-118CD is just 5 pc of the gasket in 090-034CD plug "kit."

if you go by model years it shows rubber over metal seal like https://www.dormanproducts.com/p-26830-65274.aspx (also in 10 or 25 packs)
that likely will work But not on many damage pans. I've tried that & other metal types & all leaked.

Even that should be replace every oil change because rubber seal often tears.

Also list rubber seals that must be replace every time.

Nylon seals iffy drains many times but strong enough not to fail between changes or fail when you install the plug.

Often Ignore what it fits as Dorman often doesn't know what parts fit.
To the point part site often say fit X model of whatever Year are wrong too.
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Report this Post05-06-2024 05:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

theogre

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Found my OE Oil plug in a box w/ other old bolts... I kept it because many idiots to similar damage to oil drains...

But first people need to understand how the drain hole are made in most stamped pans...

The hole thru the pan you see is just that a simple hole.
Inside they spot welded a thicker metal stamped "nut" that will allow oil to go between the parts.
then outside you have some type of seal & the plug. (Not all use a "pilot" plug that make it easier to start the plug in after draining.)
When tight only the seal keeps oil in the pan.

If the seal is wrong or damage, often will leak & damage the pan too because morons think just need more Torque...
Seals Like this...

I think maybe was metal inner holding rubber outer but rubber torn off 30 years ago & never replace & morons smash the middle AND Pan metal to Cone Out a new shape & still leaked. Nearly rounded off the head to get that out.

They even tried RTV to seal @ some point as I cleaned it today to get a good pic & had a Booger stuck next to thread.

So 65274 metal/rubber gasket has the rubber in the damaged area & leaked. Other metal seals had similar problems.

I've tried Fiber "washers" too. Works but not as well as any Nylon.

This type of is also why Dorman & others make/made oversize plugs because fools way over torque the plug & strip the stamp nut. Once upon time I seen 2x even 3x oversize self-tapper plugs available to "fix" this & other types of oil pans. They still make various rubber plugs like dorman 090-932CD to replace plugs w/ strip holes but some don't last long.

Is only "luck" that the pan didn't strip out... look @ second pic where one section of thread look worse that all other... & don't mean just galling on three threads.

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 05-06-2024).]

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Raydar
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Report this Post05-06-2024 06:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by theogre:

...idiots...
...morons...

...fools...



Oh my...
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Report this Post05-06-2024 07:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by css9450:
Every GM car I've ever had came with one of these. They had no washer.

EDIT: Do people actually replace that seal? Seems one would need a pick or something to get the old one out.

I've never had one leak.

CLICK FOR FULL SIZE
That seal is "permanent" & when bad must replace the whole plug.
This plug will limit the pressure/torque on the seal but can still strip out the hole when abused like above example.

I've change oil on Hundreds of 1960 to 90's vehicles before switching to IT world & Never seen that plug on any GM Vehicles. After switching to Metric nearly all GM product w/ stamped pans came w/ the above plug w/ replaceable seal. Most Ford Chrysler & many others had about same setup w/ separate plug & gasket of various sizes. I still change oil on newer cars I own & they often too have same setup.

Even if not OE... Have right threads & pan is good then that & more will work.

090-034CD plug "kit" fits Thousands models of GM Ford & imports from 1979 to current but on www.dormanproducts.com/p-101355-090-034cd.aspx "Detailed Applications" section only go back to 2014. You have to use Y/M/M option to see Fiero listed for that & other numbers. (the 092-018 Twist Drain Solution maybe work but seem to be a big target for road trash to hit.

⚠️ Warning: Depending of Year... Fiero V6 may Not use the metric oil plug but SAE 1/2"x20 oil plug or Rockauto has bad data listed, again. 88 Fiero V6 list Both in same list & SAE & Metric threads won't play w/ each other. RA does Not show a plug w/ permanent seal in the Fiero lists.
The seals often won't care if plug is metric or SAE.

Note: Dorman Parts often has Several Part Numbers as extra numbers may affect number of part(s) in a pack (like 1 2 10 25 washers/seals above) &/or type of pack. (Help! pack, Box, etc.)

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 05-10-2024).]

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Report this Post05-06-2024 08:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

theogre

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quote
Originally posted by Raydar:
Oh my...
I was "family friendly..." I & many others suffer when others F'ed around like my OE plug & way worse.
Most Oil changes are not "rocket science" but there are Thousands of way to make a nightmare job of it.
Also Doesn't help when some nube gets very cheap tools & breaks parts or hurts themselves or others & then someone else has to fix the mess after.

My plug above is easy output for nubes or "Jiffy Lube" type store but even many "Car Shops" do same crap to cut time etc. Don't believe many shops claiming all are ASE train. More so when have cars older ~ 20 years. Even worse for many shops use Flat Rate "books" to set a price for any job.
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fierobear
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Report this Post05-09-2024 03:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierobearSend a Private Message to fierobearEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by theogre:

097-118CD is just 5 pc of the gasket in 090-034CD plug "kit."

if you go by model years it shows rubber over metal seal like https://www.dormanproducts.com/p-26830-65274.aspx (also in 10 or 25 packs)
that likely will work But not on many damage pans. I've tried that & other metal types & all leaked.

Even that should be replace every oil change because rubber seal often tears.

Also list rubber seals that must be replace every time.

Nylon seals iffy drains many times but strong enough not to fail between changes or fail when you install the plug.

Often Ignore what it fits as Dorman often doesn't know what parts fit.
To the point part site often say fit X model of whatever Year are wrong too.


The 090-034CD seemed to fit correctly, and so far no leaks. Will test the car in run next. Otherwise, I'll stock up on the rubber washers, and change them with every oil change.

Thanks, folks!
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