driving the 88 after its key snapped off in my hand...yay? anyways before and after it's replacement I noticed alot more steering play than it had last time I drove it ~1/4 turn either way and it's really trying to go into the other lane on every bump so it's going up on stands tommorrow and I'm gonna look for obvious problems though I know the tilt column probably has a worn bushing due to it pivoting to the bottom left when any force is applied but I'm hoping that isn't enough to cause me issues. Sudden addition on my way home from a stop I had to make to look the car over is that it's not being consistent, it's oversteering or not doing much at all at random and doesn't matter which way I turn but left turns seem to make this worse. ironically the only side with a working turn signal
2nd issue has been on and off for awhile and that's under any braking the pedal will suddenly feel like I dont have a brake booster mind you that's not because I'm going deeper into the pedal stroke but feels like my booster just loses all vaccum at random. normally a broken booster would cause the brakes go near the floor or cause the engine to run poorly right? for awhile I just assumed this was normal because it wasn't so bad but today the pedal just didn't move at all with any amount of force until I downshifting twice bringing revs to 4500 and then the pedal had a slight effect
[This message has been edited by cartercarbaficionado (edited 05-06-2024).]
That will make the steering loose and slow responding, it will also allow the brake rotor to push the brake piston caliper further in, so that the next time it is pushed, it will take more pedal travel to close the gap.
When a booster fails, the brake pedal will become rock hard.
That will make the steering loose and slow responding, it will also allow the brake rotor to push the brake piston caliper further in, so that the next time it is pushed, it will take more pedal travel to close the gap.
When a booster fails, the brake pedal will become rock hard.
it's hard to put into words how it's handling...other than like a mild suggestion on where to go and it will either cut the corner on a rail or just handle like a tractor sliding down a hill if that makes sense the brakes are just weird. the pedal is Rock hard but only if you actually need to do anything with it, if it's slowing down on a highway cruise it feels like it should but if I'm in stop and go then i have to push hard enough that I feel the seat rail starting to give way
For 88, it could be a steering rag joint, some had them some didn't, I think Rodney makes a replacement, when it goes bad, it will massively increase free play, but can be sporadic depending on the force used, and the position it is in. Your brakes definitely sound like a dead booster or something along the vacuum line for it
driving the 88 after its key snapped off in my hand...yay? anyways before and after it's replacement I noticed alot more steering play than it had last time I drove it ~1/4 turn either way and it's really trying to go into the other lane on every bump so it's going up on stands tommorrow and I'm gonna look for obvious problems though I know the tilt column probably has a worn bushing due to it pivoting to the bottom left when any force is applied but I'm hoping that isn't enough to cause me issues. Sudden addition on my way home from a stop I had to make to look the car over is that it's not being consistent, it's oversteering or not doing much at all at random and doesn't matter which way I turn but left turns seem to make this worse. ironically the only side with a working turn signal
2nd issue has been on and off for awhile and that's under any braking the pedal will suddenly feel like I dont have a brake booster mind you that's not because I'm going deeper into the pedal stroke but feels like my booster just loses all vaccum at random. normally a broken booster would cause the brakes go near the floor or cause the engine to run poorly right? for awhile I just assumed this was normal because it wasn't so bad but today the pedal just didn't move at all with any amount of force until I downshifting twice bringing revs to 4500 and then the pedal had a slight effect
"normally a broken booster would cause the brakes go near the floor or cause the engine to run poorly right?" Bad Booster Will Never "floor the pedal" Nor will Not make engine problems most times more so w/ "hard pedal" you can't push.
Booster or line w/ big vac leak problem(s) can make Engine Idle High to kill the engine when 3/8" or 1/2" vac line fails. (87-88 Fiero has 1/2" booster vac line.) Bad booster often won't make a big vac leak & many times won't cause high idle too. Example: often a "dead" booster failed 1 of 2 diaphragms & cause harder pedal all the time but leak little vacuum when it happens.
your problem... The vac line to the booster or booster itself can "Jam"/"Plug" & give very hard pedal because low/no vacuum getting thru. Or has vacuum but control valve in the booster is bad or full of crap blocking operation. when intermittent, look in back for bad motor/trans mounts & related parts letting engine to move pulling/pinching wires hose etc.
But an Iffy MC can do the same because how it's made. Example: Quick take up section must "vent" to the tank once done its job. if can't = hard pedal. See https://web.archive.org/web...ierocave/brakes4.htm
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
Originally posted by cartercarbaficionado: the brakes are just weird. the pedal is Rock hard but only if you actually need to do anything with it, if it's slowing down on a highway cruise it feels like it should but if I'm in stop and go then i have to push hard enough that I feel the seat rail starting to give way
On this... when you say push hard enough... can you go into more detail?
You were saying the brakes are rock hard (which is good), but are you saying that the car just doesn't brake after stop and go traffic? Meaning that no matter how hard you push... it takes forever for the brakes to actually stop? As long as the pedal itself "feels the same" (meaning that it's not going to the floor with little effort), then this could be "brake fade."
I get a lot of flack for this, but when I was younger, I drove my Fiero HARD. Like, flooring it at every light, and slamming the brakes before every light I missed. The brakes would heat up fiercely to the point where I'd see smoke coming from both front wheels when I'd stop after some seriously spirited driving.
This is because the brakes glaze over, and the brake feeling I would get is as exactly as you described. This is known as "brake fade," which is essentially the inability to brake because the surface area doesn't really have any "gripping" power, no matter how hard you push down on the brakes. There's so much heat that the rotors become slick to the point where they cannot grip and the pads effectively just slide.
Now, if you're NOT driving like a maniac, then it's possible your brakes are leaking and brake fluid might be getting on the rotor (generally unlikely). And if this was the case, it would probably be 1 rotor, and not both at the same time... in which case the car would pitch violently to one side when you brake. I think you have brake fade...
In my opinion, with that kind of aggressive driving, the short-term fix is to have the rotors turned (they're now "glazed") and replace the pads... (and change out fluid while you're at it). But honestly... the real fix for this is to get a pair of cross-drilled and slotted front rotors. You really only need them for the front. You can do the back too... but it would really only be for looks as the back really doesn't need them. The brakes on the Fiero, while decent, are sub-par for seriously aggressive driving, and they will glaze over if you do it with some regularity. With OEM-sized cross-drilled and slotted rotors, it allows the brakes to much more easily cool off and prevents glazing of the rotors. They should cost only a little bit more than non-cross drilled and slotted rotors. You have an 88, so it's a little bit harder to find... but that will solve that problem.
Just to put it into comparison... I had to buy new rotors and pads every year for three years in a row... and when I eventually went with cross-drilled rotors... those lasted for several years before I eventually replaced them to go to a much bigger brake kit.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: This is because the brakes glaze over, and the brake feeling I would get is as exactly as you described. This is known as "brake fade," which is essentially the inability to brake because the surface area doesn't really have any "gripping" power, no matter how hard you push down on the brakes. There's so much heat that the rotors become slick to the point where they cannot grip and the pads effectively just slide.
This Is Not a Fade Problem.
Glazing can be cause by Overheating & more reasons. Big 1 is oil & other crap getting on the pads/shoes & that contamination can glaze the pads. Example: Many do not clean new rotors/drums & anti-rust coating contaminates & glaze the friction material even driving a few miles to generate only 300-500°F on the pad face.
True Fade often recovers brake function when parts are cool off again. Example: Idiot "truckers" w/o a clue uses brakes wrong going down hill then brake won't work. If they survives the event & brake cool then often will work like nothing happen. Unfortunately many ignore the event & do same again & damage fiction finally gives up & 1 or more wheels have no brakes or cause a hub/wheel fire as fiction pieces drag.
Other times the Fade is cause by bad parts like Fiero Sliders stuck or Rear Piston(s) are bad causing Dragging Pads that keep the pads Hot. More so w/ "cheap" pads that can't dump heat on the face fast.
Originally posted by theogre: This Is Not a Fade Problem.
Glazing can be cause by Overheating & more reasons. Big 1 is oil & other crap getting on the pads/shoes & that contamination can glaze the pads. Example: Many do not clean new rotors/drums & anti-rust coating contaminates & glaze the friction material even driving a few miles to generate only 300-500°F on the pad face.
True Fade often recovers brake function when parts are cool off again. Example: Idiot "truckers" w/o a clue uses brakes wrong going down hill then brake won't work. If they survives the event & brake cool then often will work like nothing happen. Unfortunately many ignore the event & do same again & damage fiction finally gives up & 1 or more wheels have no brakes or cause a hub/wheel fire as fiction pieces drag.
Other times the Fade is cause by bad parts like Fiero Sliders stuck or Rear Piston(s) are bad causing Dragging Pads that keep the pads Hot. More so w/ "cheap" pads that can't dump heat on the face fast.
Ogre... I think you need to take the totality of what I said. In absolute terms, yes... what I experienced was 100% brake fade after lots of stop and go traffic, and lots of aggressive driving and riding the brakes. It was mostly back to normal every time I'd start driving again the next morning (once they cooled off), and never had any issues at all on the highway. I'd eventually have to replace them because the rotors would warp from such extreme heat. I certainly did the job properly... repacked the bearings, cleaned the rotors, new pads, even new calipers... same thing. I was young, and very aggressive. As I said... there were times I'd stop at a light and I would actually see smoke emanating from both front wheels. Once or twice at night, the front rotors were actually glowing red. I'm simply asking if this matches (to a degree) his experience. The problem is that once you experience brake fade, you tend to ruin your rotors until you have them turned as they become glazed.
How do Rotors Become "Glazed"
Temperatures exceed the brake pad limits - Rotors become glazed when temperatures exceed the brake pad limits. The pad material hardens and forms a glassy, smooth pad surface, which means they can no longer create friction with the rotors. Pads may also crack and fracture. Removing the brake pads and sanding their surfaces can temporarily alleviate these symptoms. This will cause them to no longer appear mirror smooth.
What happens if a brake rotor is hard glazed? - It is also common for the hard glazing to transfer to the brake disc (rotor) from the pad surface. This results in a marked reduction in friction which leads to a decrease in braking performance. Excessive stopping distances result from the glazing, which can happen undetected by drivers.
I don't think the Fiero's brakes are bad. I think the problem is that it generally handles pretty well for what it is... and it inspires very spirited driving. Since its basically a parts bin, along with Citation X/11 parts (of which would likely never be driven at the limits of a Fiero), people often drive the Fiero in a way it just wasn't built to. EDIT: I realize the 88's have different brakes, etc... but I'm not aware of them being any larger or perceivably any different. I've never had these problems on any of my other cars, but had this issue on three V6 Fieros I've owned when I was much younger. I think the Fiero is just too much fun to drive that it gets driven to its limits with the V6. I'll say this... a lot of people have run into these issues, and it's why there's so many brake packages out there.
A stock V6 Fiero... even a fairly well modified one... is OK if you drive it responsibly on the street. But it could never handle prolonged racing conditions. I'm not talking about doing a couple off Solo-1 and Solo-2 SCCA challenges... I mean like an endurance race. Unfortunately, a lot of people drive like that on the street, including myself when I was younger. Anyway, going with a cross drilled (or even just slotted), basically totally solves this problem.
[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 05-06-2024).]
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Ogre... I think you need to take the totality of what I said. In absolute terms, yes... what I experienced was 100% brake fade after lots of stop and go traffic, and lots of aggressive driving and riding the brakes. It was mostly back to normal every time I'd start driving again the next morning (once they cooled off), and never had any issues at all on the highway. I'd eventually have to replace them because the rotors would warp from such extreme heat. I certainly did the job properly... repacked the bearings, cleaned the rotors, new pads, even new calipers... same thing. I was young, and very aggressive. As I said... there were times I'd stop at a light and I would actually see smoke emanating from both front wheels. Once or twice at night, the front rotors were actually glowing red. I'm simply asking if this matches (to a degree) his experience. The problem is that once you experience brake fade, you tend to ruin your rotors until you have them turned as they become glazed.
How do Rotors Become "Glazed"
Temperatures exceed the brake pad limits - Rotors become glazed when temperatures exceed the brake pad limits. The pad material hardens and forms a glassy, smooth pad surface, which means they can no longer create friction with the rotors. Pads may also crack and fracture. Removing the brake pads and sanding their surfaces can temporarily alleviate these symptoms. This will cause them to no longer appear mirror smooth.
What happens if a brake rotor is hard glazed? - It is also common for the hard glazing to transfer to the brake disc (rotor) from the pad surface. This results in a marked reduction in friction which leads to a decrease in braking performance. Excessive stopping distances result from the glazing, which can happen undetected by drivers.
I don't think the Fiero's brakes are bad. I think the problem is that it generally handles pretty well for what it is... and it inspires very spirited driving. Since its basically a parts bin, along with Citation X/11 parts (of which would likely never be driven at the limits of a Fiero), people often drive the Fiero in a way it just wasn't built to. EDIT: I realize the 88's have different brakes, etc... but I'm not aware of them being any larger or perceivably any different. I've never had these problems on any of my other cars, but had this issue on three V6 Fieros I've owned when I was much younger. I think the Fiero is just too much fun to drive that it gets driven to its limits with the V6. I'll say this... a lot of people have run into these issues, and it's why there's so many brake packages out there.
A stock V6 Fiero... even a fairly well modified one... is OK if you drive it responsibly on the street. But it could never handle prolonged racing conditions. I'm not talking about doing a couple off Solo-1 and Solo-2 SCCA challenges... I mean like an endurance race. Unfortunately, a lot of people drive like that on the street, including myself when I was younger. Anyway, going with a cross drilled (or even just slotted), basically totally solves this problem.
I think his specific symptoms are not brake fade, and more the booster. As for the difference in the 88 brakes, they are vented front and rear, which would be even more effective at cooling then drilled/slotted rotors. I live in a place where the main roads are equivalent to backroads in most other places, windy enough to feel like an autocross course, with trees right up to the road in many places, the speed limits here are also more of a dare then a limit, I drive hard (nowhere near as hard as you haha) and have fun, but never exceed the speed limit, drive more like autocross then like on a drag strip with dozens of traffic lights. I took my grandma for a ride yesterday, I hit 40km/h at the end of first gear, and she was like "slow down slow down, what's the speed limit here" it's 60 km/h, and it took a few seconds for her to realize that yes, we were going fairly slowly, but the snappy acceleration and being in such a small low car (she had only driven a Nissan Sentra for the last few years) made her think we were speeding way over the limit, in first gear haha.
For 88, it could be a steering rag joint, some had them some didn't, I think Rodney makes a replacement, when it goes bad, it will massively increase free play, but can be sporadic depending on the force used, and the position it is in. Your brakes definitely sound like a dead booster or something along the vacuum line for it
will check the rag joint and steering ujoints on the column yeah I think the booster is dead, I'll grab a few used ones soon
driving the 88 after its key snapped off in my hand...yay? anyways before and after it's replacement I noticed alot more steering play than it had last time I drove it ~1/4 turn either way and it's really trying to go into the other lane on every bump so it's going up on stands tommorrow and I'm gonna look for obvious problems though I know the tilt column probably has a worn bushing due to it pivoting to the bottom left when any force is applied but I'm hoping that isn't enough to cause me issues. Sudden addition on my way home from a stop I had to make to look the car over is that it's not being consistent, it's oversteering or not doing much at all at random and doesn't matter which way I turn but left turns seem to make this worse. ironically the only side with a working turn signal
2nd issue has been on and off for awhile and that's under any braking the pedal will suddenly feel like I dont have a brake booster mind you that's not because I'm going deeper into the pedal stroke but feels like my booster just loses all vaccum at random. normally a broken booster would cause the brakes go near the floor or cause the engine to run poorly right? for awhile I just assumed this was normal because it wasn't so bad but today the pedal just didn't move at all with any amount of force until I downshifting twice bringing revs to 4500 and then the pedal had a slight effect
"normally a broken booster would cause the brakes go near the floor or cause the engine to run poorly right?" Bad Booster Will Never "floor the pedal" Nor will Not make engine problems most times more so w/ "hard pedal" you can't push.
Booster or line w/ big vac leak problem(s) can make Engine Idle High to kill the engine when 3/8" or 1/2" vac line fails. (87-88 Fiero has 1/2" booster vac line.) Bad booster often won't make a big vac leak & many times won't cause high idle too. Example: often a "dead" booster failed 1 of 2 diaphragms & cause harder pedal all the time but leak little vacuum when it happens.
your problem... The vac line to the booster or booster itself can "Jam"/"Plug" & give very hard pedal because low/no vacuum getting thru. Or has vacuum but control valve in the booster is bad or full of crap blocking operation. when intermittent, look in back for bad motor/trans mounts & related parts letting engine to move pulling/pinching wires hose etc.
But an Iffy MC can do the same because how it's made. Example: Quick take up section must "vent" to the tank once done its job. if can't = hard pedal. See https://web.archive.org/web...ierocave/brakes4.htm
[/QUOTE] no a bad booster can cause the pedal to go to the floor as my s10 blazer had its pedal do that until I replaced it and suddenly the pedal didn't go almost all the way down anymore. usually it's the seal between chambers failing to cause that, honestly probably gonna go through the whole system since I'm not sure what has and hasn't been done
I think his specific symptoms are not brake fade, and more the booster. As for the difference in the 88 brakes, they are vented front and rear, which would be even more effective at cooling then drilled/slotted rotors. I live in a place where the main roads are equivalent to backroads in most other places, windy enough to feel like an autocross course, with trees right up to the road in many places, the speed limits here are also more of a dare then a limit, I drive hard (nowhere near as hard as you haha) and have fun, but never exceed the speed limit, drive more like autocross then like on a drag strip with dozens of traffic lights. I took my grandma for a ride yesterday, I hit 40km/h at the end of first gear, and she was like "slow down slow down, what's the speed limit here" it's 60 km/h, and it took a few seconds for her to realize that yes, we were going fairly slowly, but the snappy acceleration and being in such a small low car (she had only driven a Nissan Sentra for the last few years) made her think we were speeding way over the limit, in first gear haha.
Yeah, I've never had an 88... I didn't know they were vented. It makes sense why GM went that way then, vastly superior design.
... and to be clear. I absolutely do not drive like that now. That was 30+ years ago. I rarely drive at all. I can't even remember the last time I even went 80 on the highway.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: On this... when you say push hard enough... can you go into more detail?
You were saying the brakes are rock hard (which is good), but are you saying that the car just doesn't brake after stop and go traffic? Meaning that no matter how hard you push... it takes forever for the brakes to actually stop? As long as the pedal itself "feels the same" (meaning that it's not going to the floor with little effort), then this could be "brake fade."
I get a lot of flack for this, but when I was younger, I drove my Fiero HARD. Like, flooring it at every light, and slamming the brakes before every light I missed. The brakes would heat up fiercely to the point where I'd see smoke coming from both front wheels when I'd stop after some seriously spirited driving.
This is because the brakes glaze over, and the brake feeling I would get is as exactly as you described. This is known as "brake fade," which is essentially the inability to brake because the surface area doesn't really have any "gripping" power, no matter how hard you push down on the brakes. There's so much heat that the rotors become slick to the point where they cannot grip and the pads effectively just slide.
Now, if you're NOT driving like a maniac, then it's possible your brakes are leaking and brake fluid might be getting on the rotor (generally unlikely). And if this was the case, it would probably be 1 rotor, and not both at the same time... in which case the car would pitch violently to one side when you brake. I think you have brake fade...
In my opinion, with that kind of aggressive driving, the short-term fix is to have the rotors turned (they're now "glazed") and replace the pads... (and change out fluid while you're at it). But honestly... the real fix for this is to get a pair of cross-drilled and slotted front rotors. You really only need them for the front. You can do the back too... but it would really only be for looks as the back really doesn't need them. The brakes on the Fiero, while decent, are sub-par for seriously aggressive driving, and they will glaze over if you do it with some regularity. With OEM-sized cross-drilled and slotted rotors, it allows the brakes to much more easily cool off and prevents glazing of the rotors. They should cost only a little bit more than non-cross drilled and slotted rotors. You have an 88, so it's a little bit harder to find... but that will solve that problem.
Just to put it into comparison... I had to buy new rotors and pads every year for three years in a row... and when I eventually went with cross-drilled rotors... those lasted for several years before I eventually replaced them to go to a much bigger brake kit.
i mean they could be glazed but they ain't mirrors so it's unlikely especially since the pedal feels like it just hits a wall, I've never actually been able to lock these up so there is a definite issue and it might just be that my pads suck and the calipers are stuck
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Yeah, I've never had an 88... I didn't know they were vented. It makes sense why GM went that way then, vastly superior design.
... and to be clear. I absolutely do not drive like that now. That was 30+ years ago. I rarely drive at all. I can't even remember the last time I even went 80 on the highway.
Yeah, I know, when I compare myself to you it's to you when you were my age haha.
Yeah, I know, when I compare myself to you it's to you when you were my age haha.
Dude... it's amazing I'm still alive.
I remember taking my 1985 Fiero GT 4-Speed on an on-ramp, racing a 3rd Gen RX-7. It was a two-lane off/on-ramp... Interstate I-95 to Interstate 5-95 West-bound. We were both flooring it... I had all four wheels squealing in my 85 GT... like... literally all 4 wheels were at their adhesion limits. I have no idea how fast I was going because the Speedo only goes to 85 in that car. But I was in fourth gear and flooring it... and being really ginger with the steering wheel so I didn't lose complete control. As we came around the apex of the off-ramp, I edged out the RX-7. He was trying, certainly... and then as soon as we hit the straight-away... he gunned it and pulled away slowly.
There were at least twice that I was going over 120 miles an hour (highest the speedometer went) on my 1987 Fiero SE / V6 and was pulled over by the police. One was early in the morning on Powerline Rd out in an area of South Florida that had NOTHING... just a long stretch, and another late at night in a town called Davie, Florida. Both times... I remember having the gas pedal floored, with at least ~500rpms left on the tachometer before it got to the yellow, and the speedometer was past the 120 mark at maybe the 125 to possibly what would be 130? I don't know. I could have killed someone, or several people, let alone myself. Of course, I didn't consider that back then... I was just self-absorbed and being an idiot.
Like, I say this now... but I was a complete idiot at that age. This all had to have been from 1996-2000 (aged 18-22), as I bought a Pontiac Grand Am SE back in late 2000 after I blew the motor in my Fiero. I started driving a lot more calm then, got married, etc. When my daughter was born, it was like a light switch... I think I hit 90 once just to pass someone on the highway, but other than that, I drive the speed limit... ESPECIALLY on local roads. Like, it says 25... I'm going 23. It says 45, I'm doing 40.
yeah got it all apart and it's getting some new bits soon. seems my main issue is some loose ball joints but after putting grease in them they are night and day different and will be good enough to get the car to its storage lot a few miles away. then I'm ordering joints from either fiero store or QA1 for peace of mind and I'm pretty much just gonna fully rebuild the suspension,as it turns out my booster is getting full vaccumm so it's just dead and will be getting replaced
alright after a violent spirited test drive I can say the brakes are working properly after I unplugged the booster and let it sit open for awhile. car has its hot heat back which means the gauge is lying to me again about being halfway between 40 and the middle but it's holding there and has all its power back for the first time in months and is letting it spin tires through corners and such. not sure what I did and the front end is much much better but definitely is getting rebuilt fully very very soon with the best parts money can buy for it
alright after a violent spirited test drive I can say the brakes are working properly after I unplugged the booster and let it sit open for awhile. car has its hot heat back which means the gauge is lying to me again about being halfway between 40 and the middle but it's holding there and has all its power back for the first time in months and is letting it spin tires through corners and such. not sure what I did and the front end is much much better but definitely is getting rebuilt fully very very soon with the best parts money can buy for it
Your gauge is reading properly, it's not linear, as the first half is like 40-105, then the second half is 105-125 I think, so halfway between 40 and the middle is about 90* Celsius, which is right where gm cars like to operate.
Your gauge is reading properly, it's not linear, as the first half is like 40-105, then the second half is 105-125 I think, so halfway between 40 and the middle is about 90* Celsius, which is right where gm cars like to operate.
oh....so it being at the middle was bad. good to know and guess I'll be making an se air duct
Anything from 1/4 to just a little past the middle is ok, deepening on outside temp, how fast you're going, etc. roughly 90-110 is "normal" I think
fair enough, it was normally half to 3/4, of the gauge so it wasn't too good, I'm gonna be fixing the starter so I'll probably examine the cooling pipes just to check that they aren't crushed
my starter just locked up and smoked out :/. I litterally can't get a break
Yeah, I get a lot of flack for this... but these cars are mostly all original now. Unless it's a low mileage car... there's going to be "always something." Sometimes, the best thing to do at that point is tear through the car, section by section, until you've refreshed the entire car. That's what I'm doing with my daughter's car. It gets expensive, and obviously you don't have to replace everything like I am... but otherwise it becomes a whack-a-mole game of vehicle roulette to fix problems.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Yeah, I get a lot of flack for this... but these cars are mostly all original now. Unless it's a low mileage car... there's going to be "always something." Sometimes, the best thing to do at that point is tear through the car, section by section, until you've refreshed the entire car. That's what I'm doing with my daughter's car. It gets expensive, and obviously you don't have to replace everything like I am... but otherwise it becomes a whack-a-mole game of vehicle roulette to fix problems.
I'm used to gms of this era breaking but thus is getting a little ridiculous for a motor with 50k miles on it. though I'm starting to doubt that statement from the seller because I put I think 10-40 or maybe even 15w-50 to keep it out of the red at idle anyways off my tangent it really is just one thing after another with this and I'm sure it'll stop one day but like the rad just sprung a leak 5 minutes ago. how or why I don't know but I do know that really sucks but I'll be changing the starter and using the 84s radiator for a bit since I know it doesn't leak at least ironically the 84 is in much better shape despite the rust it has and the fact it had a blown up motor but hey only 30k miles since it had original tires, brakes and everything anyways I'm gonna get to swapping that rad in and fixing the starter
I'm used to gms of this era breaking but thus is getting a little ridiculous for a motor with 50k miles on it. though I'm starting to doubt that statement from the seller because I put I think 10-40 or maybe even 15w-50 to keep it out of the red at idle anyways off my tangent it really is just one thing after another with this and I'm sure it'll stop one day but like the rad just sprung a leak 5 minutes ago. how or why I don't know but I do know that really sucks but I'll be changing the starter and using the 84s radiator for a bit since I know it doesn't leak at least ironically the 84 is in much better shape despite the rust it has and the fact it had a blown up motor but hey only 30k miles since it had original tires, brakes and everything anyways I'm gonna get to swapping that rad in and fixing the starter
It sucks... but the thing you want to consider is that this car is already 35-40 years old, depending on year. At that age, even if it was stored in an air-conditioned museum, there's all kinds of stuff that's going to go bad. I mean, I'm not telling you anything you don't already know... but contacts start to corrode, corrosion between dissimilar metals, even when just sitting... the coolant is going to be rusting the inside of the block if any of it has tap water in there. That doesn't even begin to mention all the rubber and plastics that are starting to break down... particularly in the components where's heat/cold cycling.
To put it into perspective... I had a 1973 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme that I got w/ 83k miles on it.
... I loved that car, it was awesome. But even though it was original... the seals in the transmission were failing due to age, and the transmission pump just wasn't working as it should. It would slip on full throttle unless it was already rolling. All the seals in the carburetor were going bad too... from old gas and such. Of course, these cars are so simple... rebuild the carb, adjust the secondaries... you're good to go. There's a coil and a vacuum advance distributor.
The Fiero has like 6-8 vacuum lines, all of which can cause issues, and tons of plastic sensors. And it's all from a time when GM was slightly less than reliable.
Part of me thinks the best thing to do is to take a 7730 ECM or a MicroSquirt, rebuild the mechanical components and replace the accessories with modern versions... and use the latest sensors and engine management in order to minimize all the extraneous stuff like EGR, cold start injector, oil pressure sending unit / fuel pump stuff (like Old Joe said). There's just a better way.
My 2006 Pontiac Solstice had a very clean engine bay.
There were only like 3 vacuum lines, and they were large ones. One was for PCV, one was for the Brake Booster, and I forget what the other one was for. In that picture, it only looks cluttered because EVERYTHING is up there... but so much less cluttered than a mid-80s GM engine bay. :/
Most of the stuff on our engines aren't even needed anymore for proper operation... or emissions (really)... if you implement a better engine management system.
Originally posted by cartercarbaficionado: I'm used to gms of this era breaking but thus is getting a little ridiculous for a motor with 50k miles on it. though I'm starting to doubt that statement from the seller because I put I think 10-40 or maybe even 15w-50 to keep it out of the red at idle
Also... I wanted to add to this... your oil pressure sending unit might be bad. When my Fiero had ~90k miles on it many many many years ago... the oil pressure gauge was occasionally going into the red as I was sitting at idle, but good on the highway. This really freaked me out. I posted on here way back when... and someone told me to change out the sending unit. I did, and low and behold... the oil pressure started reading normal.
I'm not suggesting you go out and buy a new oil pressure sending unit... but just be aware they do go bad, and it could be that.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Also... I wanted to add to this... your oil pressure sending unit might be bad. When my Fiero had ~90k miles on it many many many years ago... the oil pressure gauge was occasionally going into the red as I was sitting at idle, but good on the highway. This really freaked me out. I posted on here way back when... and someone told me to change out the sending unit. I did, and low and behold... the oil pressure started reading normal.
I'm not suggesting you go out and buy a new oil pressure sending unit... but just be aware they do go bad, and it could be that.
you might be right since at 2k rpm it's sitting near 40 psi and never going any higher or lower after that. though my battery gauge is acting up and I'm like pretty sure it's wrong since at 19 volts every bulb in the car would burn out extremely quickly and it's jumpy. now if only I felt like fixing the fuel gauge so half tank didn't mean half or empty, I did rebuild my starter and it was completely full of copper dust and seems to have started working again but I'll likely just bump start it whenever I can and just assume it's gonna go out again until I can afford a 3800 starter also I'm used to low mileage cars breaking from age but like this motor was just gone through but I'm not sure how much I trust how it was put in since I found some loose motor mount bolts
starter still doesn't work even after a new solenoid and a rebuild, it spins for a bench test but I'm pretty sure it doesn't have the power to spin the engine over since my voltage drops to 8 when it tries with nothing happening
Originally posted by cartercarbaficionado: I'm used to gms of this era breaking but thus is getting a little ridiculous for a motor with 50k miles on it. though I'm starting to doubt that statement from the seller because I put I think 10-40 or maybe even 15w-50 to keep it out of the red at idle
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Also... I wanted to add to this... your oil pressure sending unit might be bad. When my Fiero had ~90k miles on it many many many years ago... the oil pressure gauge was occasionally going into the red as I was sitting at idle, but good on the highway. This really freaked me out. I posted on here way back when... and someone told me to change out the sending unit. I did, and low and behold... the oil pressure started reading normal.
I'm not suggesting you go out and buy a new oil pressure sending unit... but just be aware they do go bad, and it could be that.
It might already have an aftermarket oil pressure sender, and some of those are just junk out of the box. Some of them have bad calibration and will always read low at a warm idle, even when new, causing the warning light to come on when in fact the real pressure is fine. To confirm the real oil pressure try putting a mechanical gauge on it. Reproduce the lowest reading you get at warm idle and then see what the mechanical gauge says. It will probably read much higher than what the dash says. Either way, at least you'll know if you really have a pressure problem, and whether you actually need such heavy oil.
I consistently had this problem with four BWD senders. They would read accurately at the high end of the scale, but they were severely out of whack at the lower end. Lifetime warranty is worthless when none of them work to begin with. The store finally just gave my money back. The AC Delco senders that I've bought all worked correctly (until they died), but the last one I bought was several years ago. They aren't super reliable but at least they're calibrated correctly. The senders I've used are the 1988 style. I don't know if the aftermarket 84-87 style senders have the same problem.
Other possibility (less likely) is the wiring or the gauge, you can test that by plugging a fixed resistor into the connector. IIRC it's very close to 1ohm=1psi.
