this will remove all four nuts.if it was a little longer it would have been better.but it will work.the s10 booster is much better.the brakes feel like the ones on my other cars.i doubt it stops any better but at least the brakes feel normal.i really had to smash in the inner fender.
the s10 booster is much better.the brakes feel like the ones on my other cars.i doubt it stops any better but at least the brakes feel normal.i really had to smash in the inner fender.
This is exactly what I tell others, I doubt it brakes any harder, but now the braking action feels Like that of any other modern car, it really makes the Fiero much more enjoyable to drive.
Hmm, I didn't have to touch the inner fender, but I had to reshape a little bit of that inner rail.
[This message has been edited by jelly2m8 (edited 03-18-2024).]
So what does this booster do? Does it just make the pedal feel lighter, increase the travel, or what? I hear of this being a great upgrade, but don't understand what it improves upon.
So what does this booster do? Does it just make the pedal feel lighter, increase the travel, or what? I hear of this being a great upgrade, but don't understand what it improves upon.
when i was coming up to a stop light i would push the brake pedal.it seemed that the car wasn't slowing down fast enough.so id push much harder.now you barely push the pedal and the car slows down.if you like your brakes don't do this.
when i was coming up to a stop light i would push the brake pedal.it seemed that the car wasn't slowing down fast enough...
I believe your Fiero is an automatic. If so, perhaps the fact that the transmission is continuing to "push" the car forward when you hit the brakes is contributing to this lack of "slowing down fast enough". I've never felt that way about either my '84 or '88 Fiero, both with a manual transmission.
So what does this booster do? Does it just make the pedal feel lighter, increase the travel, or what? I hear of this being a great upgrade, but don't understand what it improves upon.
Basically more boost assist. Does not change pedal travel or anything. Drive anything built within the past 20 years normally and then drive your Fiero normally normally. You will get the idea what the Booster Upgrade does.
Basically more boost assist. Does not change pedal travel or anything. Drive anything built within the past 20 years normally and then drive your Fiero normally normally. You will get the idea what the Booster Upgrade does.
Ok, makes more sense, as Patrick says, having an automatic probably makes it more obvious, as well as the stiff clutch pedal acustomizing you to a stiffer brake pedal, I couldn't imagine having a lighter brake, it wouldn't match the rest of the car, heavy clutch, heavier then normal gas pedal, notchy shifter, etc. would make more sense with an automatic, as that removes the 2 highest effort things in the cabin.
Basically more boost assist. Does not change pedal travel or anything. Drive anything built within the past 20 years normally and then drive your Fiero normally normally. You will get the idea what the Booster Upgrade does.
that might have been part of the problem.the idles all over the place.up and down.i just feel safer now.
Originally posted by 1985 Fiero GT: So what does this booster do? Does it just make the pedal feel lighter, increase the travel, or what? I hear of this being a great upgrade, but don't understand what it improves upon.
Is most a "fix"/"upgrade" that hinds other brake issue or hinds the old booster is "dead" causing high pedal effort etc but people "sell" this & more crap like many Spark Plugs that "boost" power etc from your engine. Worse when fools/suckers also buy into the "GA Brake Upgrade" either putting parts on or buying TFS "Brake Upgrade Kit" then told to "upgrade" the booster too.
If you need more then "toe effort" to push the pedal to stop @ highway speeds to even lock up 1 or more wheels, you have a High Effort / Hard Pedal problem. Often can have more then 1 problem @ same time like you get High Effort & Low Pedal because have problems w/ booster, vac line to it, or more + "Fiero" rear piston(s) cause big pad clearance "eating" fluid volume make MC & pedal to move more.
By "Toe Effort" I mean just that, w/ a light duty shoe & put toes to very front of foot (the ball of the foot) should be easy to run to brakes even for Panic Stops. While Illegal in most places, many can do that w/ Bare Feet easily but again is Illegal in most places but easy way to tell if have a high effort / "hard" pedal.
More recently They claim like above will feel like "modern brake systems" for Over Boosting the car Ignoring the Modern Cars have ABS & other Features that Prevents any Wheel Locking during Braking. IOW while may "feel modern" on Clean Dry Pavement, the Fiero is now Over Boosted & Way Easier to Loose Control, more so during any Panic Stop or Stop on Wet/icy/Crap/Dirty Roads cause you to hit or get hit then hope your & other Insurance Co's etc never get wind of your "Brake upgrades."
Side note: They also claim the "prop valve" controls wheel locking during braking. Fact is Does Not to this for most car @ most times. Is Bias that's have different brakes front vs back that does most of that on 95+% of vehicles w/ or w/o Full ABS. Only Some cars like 88 Fiero has use the "prop valve" way more because how make/design often to meet Bean Counter's Demands that don't care about how bad the problems likely will be. Also Many Vans/Trucks of many types sold under "ABS" Label are Fakes that only have extra brake valve tied into the rear suspension to self adjust Brakes Power vs Cargo loaded so Check very carefully when buying a vehicle.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
I agree that modern cars are often overboosted, making it difficult to control the braking as minor fluctuations in the movement of your foot cause large changes in braking. It is unpleasant to drive cars like this. When ABS/nannies are present to take over, fine brake control is less important.
Unless you have ogre lower body strength, I disagree that a stock Fiero stops with toe effort. I have to press the brake pedal with the arch/ball of my foot to comfortably generate the required pedal force to threshold brake the car; I like it this way. Human body strength of course varies a lot between people.
I agree that modern cars are often overboosted, making it difficult to control the braking as minor fluctuations in the movement of your foot cause large changes in braking. It is unpleasant to drive cars like this. When ABS/nannies are present to take over, fine brake control is less important.
Unless you have ogre lower body strength, I disagree that a stock Fiero stops with toe effort. I have to press the brake pedal with the arch/ball of my foot to comfortably generate the required pedal force to threshold brake the car; I like it this way. Human body strength of course varies a lot between people.
Yeah definitely the ball of your foot, toes only would be interesting, but I've never ever used the arch of my foot, just the ball and toes, the gas pedal is made to just stick your whole foot on, but the brake and clutch are small squarish shapes for a reason, to engage with the front of your foot, the ball providing the force, the toes the finesse.
Originally posted by richard in nc: i already replaced all four rotors and pads and two callipers.stainless steel brakes on the car when i got it.and THIS 'fixed' my brakes.plus if the booster IS bad why not replace it with a better one.
You foolish put SS hoses on your brakes believing the Hype that their "Better..." Even if you buy "DOT" SS hoses, Those lines already Void DOT 106 & Warranty as soon as your added support in the middle. See https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/129208.html rubber brake lines vs stainless steel
Originally posted by pmbrunelle: Unless you have ogre lower body strength, I disagree that a stock Fiero stops with toe effort. I have to press the brake pedal with the arch/ball of my foot to comfortably generate the required pedal force to threshold brake the car; I like it this way. Human body strength of course varies a lot between people.
Fact: Most Brake & Clutch pedals for Cars & Light Trunks are design to Prevent "Strong People" Mashing the pedals.
Ergonomics of them basically Cancels legs force & mainly the ankle force gets to the pedal. Worse, on many vehicles often when you try to put the arch of you foot on them, the toe of shoes often hit or snag the wiring & other hardware above the pedal that can cause other problems or a wreck. Even Worse for people that need Boots (Steel toe or not) for work because how made w/ "cliff edge" soles having more snag points. You don't need big feet to have this problem as many Work boots add 1" or more total length.
Only some Heavy Trucks like older Semis, Dump Truck, even School Busses have different pedal design allowing your whole to fit on the Brake &/or Clutch pedals.
As to the Tool above... I have several in different sizes & brands. Example: 10mm to get to 1 nut holding lifter cover for Duke w/o removing the alt.
Can Help but often easy to bend the "hinge" when can't reach trying to put the wrench on head/nut. Many maybe "adjustable" hinge by tightening a bolt there, even they may need the hinge wrap w/ electrical tape or heat shrink to limit moving.
If you go to flea markets etc... Often can find single ratchet heads there w/ or w/o the hinge very cheap even for know brands.
[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 03-20-2024).]
Is most a "fix"/"upgrade" that hinds other brake issue or hinds the old booster is "dead" causing high pedal effort etc but people "sell" this & more crap like many Spark Plugs that "boost" power etc from your engine. Worse when fools/suckers also buy into the "GA Brake Upgrade" either putting parts on or buying TFS "Brake Upgrade Kit" then told to "upgrade" the booster too.
I have to disagree with this. I bought the Grand Am Upgrade kit. Let me explain...
When I was 18-21... basically the last several years when I drove my Fiero daily, and when I was also more juvenile, and drove it that way... I had CONSTANT... I mean CONSTANT brake fade. It was horrible. Now, let me be really honest... I drove horrible. I'd floor it at every light, slam on my brakes for every light I basically missed, and it was not uncommon for me to be doing 120 miles an hour on the highway late at night in South Florida (back when no one lived here). That was at least 20+ years ago... and I'm far far less immature now than I was then (I drive like a dad with kids).
Regardless... my 1987 Fiero SE / V6 automatic suffered massive brake fade all the time. So did my 1985 Fiero GT, and also my 1986 Fiero SE V6 automatic. I didn't ride the brakes, for sure. But I used them hard because I drove like a maniac. And I probably had to replace my rotors at least 2 times (not counting the most recent and final time) in that 3-4 year period.
There were times where the brake fade was so bad, that I was desperately pushing as hard as I could on the brakes, while getting leverage against the rear of the car, just to get my car to stop at a light. My brakes would be smoking! I've even had a brake line burst and catch fire since it dumped brake fluid all over my smoking rotors (which was only a year old). Like... there were many times I'd come to a complete stop at a light in Miami, and smoke was coming off my front two wheels.
I'd replaced the pads numerous times, and the rotors... and what fixed it, was cross-drilled and slotted rotors. This made ALL the difference in the world. I cannot tell you. I didn't experience any more brake fade, AT ALL. Unfortunately, the Fiero Store no longer sells those cross-drilled and slotted rotors... but I upgraded to the Grand Am brake kit for the front, but then had the rear rotors (also cross-drilled and slotted) resurfaced slightly, and will be keeping the rear stock.
I can't tell you how well the Grand Am brake kit works... because it's been sitting in storage for 13 years when I took a job that required me to move everywhere. But want to be VERY clear... I had a really good condition Fiero, 50k miles, and the highest quality AC DELCO brake parts... all OEM, with all new fluid... and I can tell you, the stock brakes are absolutely... ABSOLUTELY inadequate for a stock V6 Fiero that's actually driven spiritedly. I'm not a race car driver, but I'd be really interested to hear from someone who's actually raced a V6 Fiero (not a 4 cyl) on an actual concourse for an extended period of time.
I think we can all agree I drove like an idiot, and it's amazing that I'm still alive, and that I didn't kill anyone else... but what can I say, it was Miami, lots of girls, and testosterone, and I was a moron ... and stock Fiero brakes are inadequate.
I race a Fiero and I have Grand Am rotors all round. Grand Am calipers up front, Seville calipers on the rear. I have the S10 brake booster as well with a slightly bigger master cylinder. The master cylinder: I don't remember what it came off? But it's physically identical to the original aluminium one, bit it's made of cast iron. (Bigger bore and piston of course.)
So to answer the question: No my brakes are not over powered compaired to original. However, I don't get as much brake fade or brake disc/rotor overheating. The pedal feels pretty much as original. I can, and have locked up the brakes on a trackday, but everything is under control. No rear lockup before front, no spin outs!
My opinion: Grand Am rotors just reduce the brake fade and overheating on a circuit. Doesn't make much difference for normal everyday driving.
------------------ "Turbo Slug" - '87 Fiero GT. 3800 turbo. - The fastest Fiero in France! @turboslugfiero https://youtu.be/hUzOAeyWLfM
As to the Tool above... I have several in different sizes & brands. Example: 10mm to get to 1 nut holding lifter cover for Duke w/o removing the alt.
Can Help but often easy to bend the "hinge" when can't reach trying to put the wrench on head/nut. Many maybe "adjustable" hinge by tightening a bolt there, even they may need the hinge wrap w/ electrical tape or heat shrink to limit moving.
If you go to flea markets etc... Often can find single ratchet heads there w/ or w/o the hinge very cheap even for know brands.
Originally posted by theogre: "Big Booster Upgrade" is Not Better.
For you it's not, for me it add's to the rest I do to my car to make it feel much more modern and enjoyable to drive and less of that 80's GM shitbox that all 80's GM vehicles feel like today compared to anything significantly newer than that.
I remember the old boys saying ' They sure don't make them like they used to' and to that I say ' Thank god for that!'
[This message has been edited by jelly2m8 (edited 03-21-2024).]
For you it's not, for me it add's to the rest I do to my car to make it feel much more modern and enjoyable to drive and less of that 80's GM shitbox that all 80's GM vehicles feel like today compared to anything significantly newer than that.
I remember the old boys saying ' They sure don't make them like they used to' and to that I say ' Thank god for that!'
i put thirty miles on my car today.the most distance ive driven it.its thirty seven years old and im fixing things.i bought a cluster that the trip odometer works so im less worried about running out of gas.the tank sender is dead.the po lowered it and someone welded a large swaybar on front.it rides and drives surprisingly well.
i put thirty miles on my car today.the most distance ive driven it.its thirty seven years old and im fixing things.i bought a cluster that the trip odometer works so im less worried about running out of gas.the tank sender is dead.the po lowered it and someone welded a large swaybar on front.it rides and drives surprisingly well.
mhmm and in the end that is what it is about, enjoying these old rigs in each and our own respect
History, short version: Original 4 wheel GA "Upgrade" was first done by a Race Team on a "Trailer Queen" Race Car never driven on the street! That site went down soon after so others only "copied" the data & worse push it for street use that's Illegal in Most US States & many other Countries. Later someone added Seville rears but still has most of same problems but "restores" P-brake & Bias to the system. Then Someone Else thew in Big Booster to the "upgrade" mix that raises Line Pressure causing hydraulic problems, worse for "Panic Stopping" when Line Pressure can hit 1500psi or more w/ the Big Booster.
For many "fan boys" loving "GA upgrades," many did that or got sold a Fiero w/ that & had to remove this to drive that including TFS "upgrade" only follow same directions & never bother w/ other problems covered in cave & else where. For Years TFS didn't even bother to tell buyers that Big MC only applied to the "GA Upgrade" & was required not optional for any version of "GA Upgrade."
So many w/ OE setup were sold the Big MC by TFS, had huge problems, & still blamed GM for "Crap Fiero Brakes" never connecting the dots or Fixing/Restoring the brakes the right way & maybe using better pads like Wagner TQ pads but Not "Race Pads" that often have other problems because never get hot enough to work on the street. Many get sold w/ same Hype pushing Big Booster that often Hinds a lot of Brake problems.
quote
Originally posted by Frenchrafe: I race a Fiero and I have Grand Am rotors all round. Grand Am calipers up front, Seville calipers on the rear. I have the S10 brake booster as well with a slightly bigger master cylinder. The master cylinder: I don't remember what it came off? But it's physically identical to the original aluminium one, bit it's made of cast iron. (Bigger bore and piston of course.)
So to answer the question: No my brakes are not over powered compaired to original. However, I don't get as much brake fade or brake disc/rotor overheating. The pedal feels pretty much as original. I can, and have locked up the brakes on a trackday, but everything is under control. No rear lockup before front, no spin outs!
My opinion: Grand Am rotors just reduce the brake fade and overheating on a circuit. Doesn't make much difference for normal everyday driving.
Not only that & other issues w/ the GA Front... Seville rear calipers has Same Piston Design & Problems as Fiero & others that should have same Recall but Cadillac Almost never got Stick Trans so Owners never got a Recall Notice for this problem.
GM Brake Recall w/ NHTSA "blessing" to save GM Big Money only recall stick cars only because Auto Trans cars have Park Pawl in then to hold a car when parked. Yet all have same problem that P-brake doesn't work + bad Pistons also effect Service Brake causing Low Pedal to Dragging Pads causing a Brake Failure or even Fires. Huge Numbers of NHTSA Recalls allow Makers to do the Absolute Minimum for "fixing" the problem like Kia/Hyundai "reprogramming" the ECM to "Fix" crap motors w/ similar problems w/ Fiero V6 w/ crank death or even engine blows at highway speeds.
Seriously, why make another post about it? Just click on EDIT and sort it out.
