Well, it's not completely dead yet, but it needs intensive care at the least.
The car has been leaking coolant for quite some time now but I was never able to find where it was leaking. It wasn't much, perhaps 2 quarts each 1-2 months (ok that's actually a lot, but it meant it wasn't a large leak). Also temperatures were all over the place during the first 15 minutes of a drive. Temperature would rise to about 215F but then within seconds drop to about 175, then rise again, and so on. But like I said, it would do this only during the first 15 minutes of a drive after which the temperature would be stable at around 175. Since I never saw any wet spots under the car (from coolant), my oil was not milky and I didn't see white smoke coming from the exhaust pipes, I figured I was leaking coolant as steam somewhere. I also was very slowly losing transmission oil so the radiator has always been suspect.
Normally I know when it's time to refill coolant when it takes longer for the temperature fluctuations to go away. Which is usually after about 1-2 months. As said, it takes 2 quarts to fill it up again.
Anyways, I hadn't noticed any of that in the past few days. Which isn't strange since I filled coolant a few weeks ago. But today, I noticed that temperature wouldn't go down and it was slowly climbing towards the red. I was on the highway so at least it was getting some extra cooling. But when I drove into the city, temperature rose quickly up until the point it was well past the red so I quickly stopped the car. When I got out, I noticed a wide trail of coolant behind the car and a large puddle of coolant quickly formed under the front. Looking under the car I saw it was leaking over the entire width of the radiator, but most was coming from the right side. Inspecting the radiator, it was otherwise dry (and cool to the touch) so it must have been leaking from the very bottom.
Since I was somewhere where I couldn't leave the car, I let the car cool for 30 minutes while I walked to a nearby gas station, bought 4 quarts of coolant and poured that in the Fiero. It immediately started pouring out of the front, so I started the car and quickly drove to a place where I could park the car for a longer period. This also happened to be right next to a car repair shop. I got there in time, temperature had just reached red.
Radiator I'm pretty sure it's the radiator itself and not the hoses or anything because they looked dry. So now I am on the lookout for a radiator. I've seen them on AliExpress for about $150 with free shipping from China. Haven't read anything negative about them. In fact, the exact same ones are sold under different brand names for a lot more.
How difficult is it to replace a radiator? Is that something I can do at the side of the road? Or should I just buy the radiator and let the repair shop do it?
Cliff, you could do it on the side of the road but I recommend that you get a shop to do it. I’d have them pressure test it before it’s installed and the shop should have the equipment to do it.
BTW, I’m chipping in AUD $50 to help you out. I’m challenging the rest of the Forum members to put their hand in their pockets to help. C’mon, folks, after what Cliff has done for us, surely we can help him with this.
Geeze I thought the engine died. Replacing the radiator is easy. I replaced 4 in a 6 month span at one point because I kept trying to use a stock replacement type with the plastic side tanks, and they always developed a leak, if not immediately, after just a few months. The all-aluminum ones are the way to go, better cooling and no more leaks. The hardest part of the job is getting the transmission cooler lines threaded back on, use a flare nut wrench. Second hardest is getting the old hoses off, get new ones and new hose clamps. You can easily remove the hood yourself, two bolts at each hinge and the ones holding the prop/latch mechanism at the front, then you have easy access. Maybe a 2 hour job your first time.
Yeah, I ended up ordering the one from AliExpress. By the looks of it, it is the same one WCF is selling. Also, it says it's not shipped from China but from Czechoslovakia so shipping is 4-10 days. And at $150 including shipping, that's a steal.
I bought the all-aluminum 3-row Champion radiator that Fiero Store is selling; it's probably the exact same item as the other brands just in a different box. It's going to be tighter going back in since it doesn't fit on the rubber bumpers the same was as the original did. But you shouldn't need to remove the hood; I never have.
I think the factory-style single-row radiators (the ones with plastic tanks) have been out of stock for awhile now.
Thanks all for the answers! And of course, many thanks for the monetary help! As for the latter, I do want to make it clear this is not the reason why I posted the thread. In fact, it's why I sometimes refrain from posting such questions because I'm afraid people might think that...
I'm now thinking of trying to replace the radiator myself. If I mess up, the car is in front of the repair shop so they should be able to finish the job. On the other hand, if I let them do it, I have some sort of warranty on the repair... 😁
Replacing the Rad isn't very hard... Normally... "Rust" can get to any hardware, frame, etc. If have Auto Trans... Must have flare nut wrench(es) 1 to turn nut holding cooler line, 1 to hold the fitting between that and rad side.
Flare Nut wrenches are "open end" type but uses more metal to not wreck the soft nut.
To tighten, setup so wrenches can act like pliers then squeeze the 2 together. Flares of most types Hate Morons that over torque them and good way to fail later or now depending exactly what joint is in/on whatever. Example: Flairs at Brake MC can crush shut the MC hole when over torqued.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
Thanks all for the answers! And of course, many thanks for the monetary help! As for the latter, I do want to make it clear this is not the reason why I posted the thread. In fact, it's why I sometimes refrain from posting such questions because I'm afraid people might think that...
We know you aren't begging for money. It's a pleasure to help out. Think of this as payback for you "paying it forward" with the Forum.
Let me know if you want some help with the install. I am a hour away and I have time. I have tools but not a flare nut wrench, maybe the repair shop has one or you could order it. Aliexpress has them cheap also.
Let me know if you want some help with the install. I am a hour away and I have time. I have tools but not a flare nut wrench, maybe the repair shop has one or you could order it. Aliexpress has them cheap also.
Thanks Ro, I wil certainly keep that in mind!
The only things I'm a bit worried about are the transmission lines. They look pretty rusted.
If I recall correctly I replaced the radiator without taking off the hood. Be that as it may, for starters the washer reservoir must come out, the four bolts that hold the fan shroud, both hoses and the top bracket must all be disconnected. Then the plug to the fan motor and the flare fittings to the trans cooler (if used) must be removed. The hard part is reaching the left side hose clamp and the two bottom bolts on the fan shroud. I cannot see how those two bottom shroud bolts can be easily reached unless they are taken out from the bottom. For the Champion radiator to fit the top holding bracket must be notched for clearance around the water neck. Its not a hard job but if things go smoothly figure about 2 hours or less. If you go underneath to remove anything PLEASE be sure to use quality jack stands placed on solid level paved ground not on soil or gravel.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Yeah, so I ordered the radiator. They said they had 98 in stock. The next day AliExpress tells me it is shipped. I even get a tracking number. I can track the package from the Czech Republic (where it's shipped from) to The Netherlands. June 13 it says "delivered". But it doesn't say where. I most certainly haven't received anything. So I contact the seller and they say they haven't shipped it yet because they only had one in stock and it turned out it had a problem. So they have to wait for it to be in stock again and that can take up to 50 days. Which coincides with the date I can no longer make a claim with AliExpress.
That does sound like a scam! Can you file a claim now to get your money refunded before its too late?
Also, the fluctuating temp on cold startup sounds like your thermostat is sticking. That may have caused the leak to start with your original radiator... fluctuating temps/pressures can wreak havoc on old soldered joints.
So they had the ultra rare '98' fiero radiator or a total of 98 fiero radiators in stock? Either way, I don't think they are being honest. If you paid by CC or pay-pal, get your money back asap.
[This message has been edited by steve308 (edited 07-17-2023).]
So they have to wait for it to be in stock again and that can take up to 50 days. Which coincides with the date I can no longer make a claim with AliExpress.
Yeah, so I ordered the radiator. They said they had 98 in stock. The next day AliExpress tells me it is shipped. I even get a tracking number. I can track the package from the Czech Republic (where it's shipped from) to The Netherlands. June 13 it says "delivered". But it doesn't say where. I most certainly haven't received anything. So I contact the seller and they say they haven't shipped it yet because they only had one in stock and it turned out it had a problem. So they have to wait for it to be in stock again and that can take up to 50 days. Which coincides with the date I can no longer make a claim with AliExpress.
I smell a scam...
Never order from AliExpress, On Youtube on stuff like Donut Media and Linus Tech Tips they're referred to basically as a joke. Cheap chinese knockoff stuff that takes month(s) to get delivered, if it gets delivered at all.
I'd avoid removing the hood...IIRC its hard to get it perfectly lined up again and your panel gaps might look funny. At the very least you probably want Fie Ro's help putting it back on.
I've never removed one on a Fiero but it should be very easy. I just did it on my S10 to replace the a/c condenser and from what other forum members are saying its basically the same thing which was easy. I didn't even do it in the garage here, I did it in the driveway outside, so you should be able to do it on the side of the road.
When I needed line wrenches I just went to Harbor Freight and got some cheap. If you can't do that locally, Amazon?
[This message has been edited by sdgdf (edited 07-20-2023).]
There's also those for a little cheaper, $135 free shipping. I trust Amazon more than ebay though, and on ebay you have to worry they don't ship to NL.
Are you out the money you paid to AliExpress? If I make a donation with that banner at the top of PFF does that go to you buying this radiator?
Aliexpress you buy one thing and they ship you something else if at all. Order a xk x450 and they sent an a180 wtf? Never again, ebay n scamazon only
Cant be to expensive to have that shop install it. The tranny lines may be tough to get off, and you might make a mechanic buddy. Tell him if he has any trouble or questions you have a forum with an army of people ready to answer any questions.
I got a full refund for the one they never sent. I've really never had any problems getting my money back from AliExpress. It's in fact a lot easier than trying to get your money back on eBay.
I ordered another radiator from China for about €200 (about $220) including shipping, and that one is actually on the way (according to the track & trace). It's estimated to arrive on August 9th.
I already have the line wrenches (bought them on Amazon).
Yes, I had seen those but they either don't ship to the Netherlands, or shipping is around $150-$200... On top of that, I will have to pay import taxes and VAT, so that will be around $100 extra.
BTW, is it normal that a radiator fails so drastically? I mean, the car was leaking coolant somewhere but I was never able to figure out where because I never saw it dripping anywhere. And all of a sudden, it looses 5 quarts in 5 minutes from the radiator (area). The hoses felt dry but it was leaking from that area so I assumed it was the radiator.
But can a radiator fail in such a way that it develops a big hole in minutes?
My radiator has arrived! That was a whole lot quicker than expected. 8 days from China!
It was well packed and it looks good quality wise. I ended up paying about $220, including shipping. Not sure if I will get a bill for VAT and import taxes, but I suspect not.
Now I just have to wait for it to stop raining (which hopefully is in about 8 days) so I can try to fix my car...
So today was a sunny day with no rain (first time in weeks) so I seized the opportunity to replace my radiator.
It was in no way an easy nor quick job.
That said, I think I could have done it in 2 hours at most if I used an OEM radiator. But as it turned out, this thing is not a drop-in replacement.I'm not sure if they send me the wrong one because other than it not fitting, the couplings for the transmission lines were different too.
I spent 4.5 hours so far and while it's finally in, it's not hooked up yet and I still need to make a few changes. Let me reiterate my day...
So I started by removing the deck lid because I quickly saw that without removing it, it was going to be a near impossible job to do. Then I removed the top bracket which was also easy. I loosened the fan only at the top because I noticed it was not necessary to remove the fan at all.
Removing the rubber hoses was also no problem, but the transmission lines was something else. The top one came loose easily. Although I only now noticed that apparently someone tried to remove the transmission lines before (maybe during the repair I had done last year?) and the lines had broken because both the top as the bottom line had a piece of the line replaced by a rubber hose. Not sure why the top one had a piece replaced since it came off easily, but the nut of the bottom one was rounded. So I suspect they cut it and used a rubber hose to connect the piece that was stuck to the radiator with the rest of the transmission line.
So I ended up cutting the rubber hose and was able to take out the old radiator. That was almost an hours work.
When I wanted to insert the new radiator, only then did I notice that the couplings were incorrect. The pictures on AliExpress showed te correct ones:
but what I got was this:
It did come with "adapters" so you can put a hose on it:
and since both transmission lines are cut anyways and I need to use hoses, I can make that work I think.
But then... Like I said, this is in no way a drop in replacement. Since it's a 3-row radiator, it's a lot thicker. I knew that because that was mentioned in above video (where they replaced the OEM radiator for the same one as I have). I also knew that I needed to trim the rubber bumper pads which I did. But it still wouldn't fit.
The reason why it wouldn't fit is because the OEM radiator has rounded corners while this aftermarket one has square corners. So the bracket no longer fits. So what I did was "reshape" the bracket (bent some pieces straight, and making the corners as square as possible). I was then able to fit the bracket over the radiator but it was "floating" in the air about an inch above the bolt holes. I had to remove the top and bottom rubber pads. It still had a gap of about half an inch so I just put all my weight on it, tried to align the bracket with the holes and put the bolts in just a little bit. I then tightened all the bolts causing the bracket to snugly bend around the radiator. But it's now metal on metal. No rubber padding. But it's so incredibly tight that I don't think that's a problem.
But, because the radiator is wider, there's another problem. There's no room for the radiator fan anymore. If I would bolt it into place, it would bury itself into the side of the radiator.
This is the distance it has when it sits against the radiator:
So I need to put some spacers there to move it back. But then there's another problem. Move it too far back, and the fan hits the top bracket:
So not sure what to do there yet. Perhaps I will be able to get it just right with the proper amount of spacers. Maybe I'll just get my grinder and remove a small part of the bracket so the fan has a bit more room at the top.
Now back to the transmission lines. I need to couple these two together:
And also these two:
But I don't have the rubber hose yet so I need to get that before I can finish the job - which probably won't be before the end of next week when it stops raining again...
One quick question: Do I need to use teflon tape on the threads of these couplings?
Yes, OE type will fit right. Al tanks require car mods to fit.
I don't see Filling Port "overflow" tube in above pic's. Where is that? W/o that can't connect to OF Tank and will have big problems.
The trans "cooler" fittings may not need or want any sealer on the threads. Does "nut" float/move on the small tube? Show a pic of threaded part of the adapters.
You need SAE J1532 "rubber" hose to make the joints w/ hard sections. Is made for hot auto trans oil. Most others including fuel hose will fail and sooner.
Copper/whatever for lines to trans need some solder bumps etc like adapter has a "flare" section to prevent hose to push/blow off them. Example: My "bypass tube" for bad heater cores...
I just rewatched the above video again and two things I noticed:
1) He has an aftermarket fan 2) His top bracket has square corners
Actually his is correct, yours looks like it came off an early car without A/C, there should be an entire shroud, that may have contributed to the overheating.
Actually his is correct, yours looks like it came off an early car without A/C, there should be an entire shroud, that may have contributed to the overheating.
My car never had A/C so that's probably why it's this model.
Originally posted by Patrick: Are there radiators made without overflow tubes?
Yes but not for Fiero.
Cliff said not there in pic's because came as separate part. If didn't say then Fill Port can be made wrong and can be "fix" in a few ways but doesn't matter now.
The "screw in" tube may need sealer. Is so small try "Teflon" paint sealer for home plumbing that never dries fully.
also look at the cap carefully. 1. Still need a Non Vented Cap so make sure it right type. 2. Carefully compare w/ old cap... New rad may not be same otherwise and finding replacements can be harder.
[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 08-05-2023).]
BTW, is it normal that a radiator fails so drastically? I mean, the car was leaking coolant somewhere but I was never able to figure out where because I never saw it dripping anywhere. And all of a sudden, it looses 5 quarts in 5 minutes from the radiator (area). The hoses felt dry but it was leaking from that area so I assumed it was the radiator.
But can a radiator fail in such a way that it develops a big hole in minutes?
In my experience on my daily driver, which is a car notorious for having a bad/cheap cooling system, parts will function in a degraded state for a while then when they blow, they blow. Part of that is they're under pressure and heat.
Good to see you're working with the chinese radiator and adapting it to your car. Sounds like you'll be driving it again soon! Hopefully this will also solve the problem of your fluctuating temps. Because its a fatter radiator it should be an upgrade and keep your temps low.
[This message has been edited by sdgdf (edited 08-05-2023).]
Looking at the picture of my old radiator, I notice something weird. If I look at the bottom transmission line (the one that was apparently broken off because it had a piece of tubing on it), it looks like there's something inside the line:
I wonder what that is? My car is parked about 8 miles from my place so I can't really have a look until I'll work on it again.
