Pennock's Fiero Forum
  Technical Discussion & Questions
  Programming ecm help

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Email This Page to Someone! | Printable Version


next newest topic | next oldest topic
Programming ecm help by shemdogg
Started on: 06-10-2022 08:53 AM
Replies: 14 (272 views)
Last post by: ericjon262 on 06-15-2022 09:51 PM
shemdogg
Member
Posts: 1859
From: The Ghetto CA USA
Registered: Apr 2017


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post06-10-2022 08:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for shemdoggSend a Private Message to shemdoggEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey all Im planning a 3800 swap and want to try and program the ecm myself. I found a copy of hptuners and a little info on it. Do I need a standard usb to obd2 cable? Any help or insight appreciated!

shem
IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
RichLo1
Member
Posts: 138
From: Baldwin WI
Registered: Nov 2019


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post06-10-2022 10:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RichLo1Send a Private Message to RichLo1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have a 3800sc swapped Fiero also and I'm considering tuning it soon with HP tuners soon also. I think the MPVI2+ has everything needed but you need to buy 2 credits I think to flash it? Its pricy at $750 + $100 for the credits.
IP: Logged
Dennis LaGrua
Member
Posts: 15920
From: Hillsborough, NJ U.S.A.
Registered: May 2000


Feedback score:    (13)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 328
Rate this member

Report this Post06-10-2022 03:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
HP Tuners is the best editor and scanner on the market. That is why its used by the pros. It is a software program and interface box that attaches to your OBDII diagnostic connector and your laptop via USB. With it you can easily scan and edit your program making changes to the fueling and timing. I am not a big fan of adding more timing to the 3800SC program running 93 octane gasoline but if you downsize the pulley for higher boost levels its very easy to adjust the fueling by tweaking the values in the MAF table. The 3800SC program is MAF based. The fueling tables in the program are fixed values mainly used by default only if the MAF fails. All of us tuners get together on the HP Tuners forum to exchange tuning tricks and tips
The tuning process is simple. You use the scanner to plot your sensor values with emphasis on KR's, O2 voltages, long term fuel trims and other sensor readings. You save the scan pages it in excel .csv format and review it. That will tell you if the engine is running rich or lean at all RPM values and let you know if there are any KR's. Tuning may sound complicated but it is rather easy but the very first step before getting started is disabling the VATS so that the engine can be started.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 06-22-2022).]

IP: Logged
jdv
Member
Posts: 862
From: Ocala
Registered: Dec 2006


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post06-11-2022 09:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jdvSend a Private Message to jdvEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I know this is older but many of the go fast guys have used tinytuner.
http://theblattners.com/Pro...nyTuner/default.html
and the best part it's free.
IP: Logged
shemdogg
Member
Posts: 1859
From: The Ghetto CA USA
Registered: Apr 2017


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post06-11-2022 09:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for shemdoggSend a Private Message to shemdoggEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey fellas thanks for the replies! Im looking for a cracked version of hptuners(cuz im cheap af), all I need is to disable vats and the 2nd o2 sensor/codes. Do you know if tiny tuner can do that?

Thanks
shem
IP: Logged
jdv
Member
Posts: 862
From: Ocala
Registered: Dec 2006


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post06-11-2022 11:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jdvSend a Private Message to jdvEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hi Shem, you are going to need a cable at least. There are low cost options to do what you want. Check out pcmhacking they have support for the 3800 v6. They call it ecotech. there are low cost cable options <100$ to work with the software options.
https://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewforum.php
IP: Logged
shemdogg
Member
Posts: 1859
From: The Ghetto CA USA
Registered: Apr 2017


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post06-11-2022 09:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for shemdoggSend a Private Message to shemdoggEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks for the reply, dug around and got a few tuning programs. Now I need the cable, some guys recommended the obdlink sx as an interface cable but see lots of something like this being used- would this work?
https://www.amazon.com/Qiil...%2Caps%2C1523&sr=8-5

shem
IP: Logged
ericjon262
Member
Posts: 3151
From: everywhere.
Registered: Jan 2010


Feedback score:    (10)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 67
Rate this member

Report this Post06-11-2022 10:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:

HP Tuners is the best editor and scanner on the market. That is why its used by the pros. It is a software program and interface box that attaches to your OBDII diagnostic connector and your laptop via USB. With it you can easily scan and edit your program making changes to the fueling and timing. I am not a big fan of adding more timing to the 3800SC program running 93 octane gasoline but if you downsize the pulley for higher boost levels its very easy to adjust the fueling by tweaking the values in the MAF table. The 3800SC program is MAF based. The fueling tables in the program are fixed values mainly used by default only if the MAF fails. All of us tuners get together on the HP Tuners forum to exchange tuning tricks and tips
The tuning process is simple. You use the scanner to plot your sensor values with emphasis on KR's, O2 voltages, long term fuel trims and other sensor readings. You save the scan pages it in excel .csv format and review it. That will tell you if the engine is running rich or lean at all RPM values and let you know if there are and KR's. Tuning may sound complicated but it is rather easy but the very first step before getting started is disabling the VATS so that the engine can be started.



While I only have minimal experience with HPT, I don't think it's the best, Tunercat OBD2 (Jet DST) has way more parameters available to tune, including things needed for manual transmission options.

 
quote
Originally posted by jdv:

I know this is older but many of the go fast guys have used tinytuner.
http://theblattners.com/Pro...nyTuner/default.html
and the best part it's free.


Tiny Tuner is AWESOME, but it is just a BIN editor, and cannot flash a PCM, you need a DHP Powertunr to make the best use of Tiny Tuner.


 
quote
Originally posted by shemdogg:

Thanks for the reply, dug around and got a few tuning programs. Now I need the cable, some guys recommended the obdlink sx as an interface cable but see lots of something like this being used- would this work?
https://www.amazon.com/Qiil...%2Caps%2C1523&sr=8-5

shem


the Developers of PCM hammer are working on a interface and program to read and write the V6 PCM's, but unfortunately it's not supported yet.

------------------
"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."

cognita semper

IP: Logged
ericjon262
Member
Posts: 3151
From: everywhere.
Registered: Jan 2010


Feedback score:    (10)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 67
Rate this member

Report this Post06-11-2022 10:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

ericjon262

3151 posts
Member since Jan 2010
 
quote
Originally posted by jdv:

Hi Shem, you are going to need a cable at least. There are low cost options to do what you want. Check out pcmhacking they have support for the 3800 v6. They call it ecotech. there are low cost cable options <100$ to work with the software options.
https://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewforum.php



link no workie.

------------------
"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."

cognita semper

IP: Logged
Raydar
Member
Posts: 41230
From: Carrollton GA. Out in the... country.
Registered: Oct 1999


Feedback score:    (13)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 461
Rate this member

Report this Post06-12-2022 01:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:
While I only have minimal experience with HPT, I don't think it's the best, Tunercat OBD2 (Jet DST) has way more parameters available to tune, including things needed for manual transmission options.



I have never even seen HPT, but I have used Tunercat OBD1 and OBD2. (I bought my OBD2 before the rights were sold to JET.)
I find the list of available parameters/options quite impressive, although I haven't done much with the OBD2. I was able to firm up the shifts in my Silverado, and have used it to "turn off" any number of troublesome trouble codes.
"What do you mean 'Catalyst Efficiency'?! Go... away!" (I do care about our environment, but the car had a brand new cat, and was still bitching.)

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 06-12-2022).]

IP: Logged
ericjon262
Member
Posts: 3151
From: everywhere.
Registered: Jan 2010


Feedback score:    (10)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 67
Rate this member

Report this Post06-12-2022 02:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:


I have never even seen HPT, but I have used Tunercat OBD1 and OBD2. (I bought my OBD2 before the rights were sold to JET.)
I find the list of available parameters/options quite impressive, although I haven't done much with the OBD2. I was able to firm up the shifts in my Silverado, and have used it to "turn off" any number of troublesome trouble codes.
"What do you mean 'Catalyst Efficiency'?! Go... away!" (I do care about our environment, but the car had a brand new cat, and was still bitching.)



it's worth mentioning, that TC OBD2 VDFs for the V6 engines even have parameters for DBW throttle in it, a feature only offered on late 3800 F-bodies

the big fail of Tunercat OBD2 is that it doesn't natively datalog, so you can't datalog and tune in the same application. I got Tunercat OBD2 the expensive way, buying a Moates Roadrunner OBD2.

------------------
"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."

cognita semper

IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
shemdogg
Member
Posts: 1859
From: The Ghetto CA USA
Registered: Apr 2017


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post06-12-2022 05:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for shemdoggSend a Private Message to shemdoggEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey I appreciate all the replies! That pcmhammer link didnt work but I did find some good info digging around in there, mainly that this stuff is waaaay over my head lol. But I found this page that kinda spells the procedure pretty simply-

https://github.com/LegacyNs...wiki/Getting-Started
opinions?

I do have a copy of tunerpro I downloaded yesterday, but I need a cheap interface cable. I see some cables like the vag-com(lmao) that have the obd2 connector going to usb, then theres some that have a pc board in the obd2 connector and a usb pigtail. Whats the difference? I already have a code scanner so dont need that. Not looking to get crazy w tuning this 3800sc, just want it running for now. Any all all help appreciated!

shem
IP: Logged
ericjon262
Member
Posts: 3151
From: everywhere.
Registered: Jan 2010


Feedback score:    (10)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 67
Rate this member

Report this Post06-12-2022 05:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by shemdogg:

Hey I appreciate all the replies! That pcmhammer link didnt work but I did find some good info digging around in there, mainly that this stuff is waaaay over my head lol. But I found this page that kinda spells the procedure pretty simply-

https://github.com/LegacyNs...wiki/Getting-Started
opinions?

I do have a copy of tunerpro I downloaded yesterday, but I need a cheap interface cable. I see some cables like the vag-com(lmao) that have the obd2 connector going to usb, then theres some that have a pc board in the obd2 connector and a usb pigtail. Whats the difference? I already have a code scanner so dont need that. Not looking to get crazy w tuning this 3800sc, just want it running for now. Any all all help appreciated!

shem



IIRC, PCM hammer only supports V8 PCM's, and that a V6 version is being worked on.

I sent you a PM.

------------------
"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."

cognita semper

IP: Logged
Dennis LaGrua
Member
Posts: 15920
From: Hillsborough, NJ U.S.A.
Registered: May 2000


Feedback score:    (13)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 328
Rate this member

Report this Post06-15-2022 12:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:
While I only have minimal experience with HPT, I don't think it's the best, Tunercat OBD2 (Jet DST) has way more parameters available to tune, including things needed for manual transmission options.
the Developers of PCM hammer are working on a interface and program to read and write the V6 PCM's, but unfortunately it's not supported yet.


I favor HPT suite as when you scan, you can choose any and all parameters, plot one against another, see ongoing graphs of operation, and have all scanning points at every RPM, MAP, MAF, TPS and O2 values. You can also plot KR's in relation to RPM and MAP readings etc on a chart and make your own charts.
As for the editor I believe that is quite extensive also having the ability to not only read but chart and graph all operating parameters under every operating condition. It may not be for everyone but I find it pretty versatile and its done the job well but the drawback is that its costly.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

IP: Logged
ericjon262
Member
Posts: 3151
From: everywhere.
Registered: Jan 2010


Feedback score:    (10)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 67
Rate this member

Report this Post06-15-2022 09:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:

I favor HPT suite as when you scan, you can choose any and all parameters, plot one against another, see ongoing graphs of operation, and have all scanning points at every RPM, MAP, MAF, TPS and O2 values. You can also plot KR's in relation to RPM and MAP readings etc on a chart and make your own charts.
As for the editor I believe that is quite extensive also having the ability to not only read but chart and graph all operating parameters under every operating condition. It may not be for everyone but I find it pretty versatile and its done the job well but the drawback is that its costly.




it's especially costly if you try and tune more than one vehicle, or are trying to do development which requires changing PCM's.

my take on each of the 3 main options we have:

HPT-

Good data logging,
expensive.
have to buy credits to tune more than one PCM


DHP-
can tune as many cars as you want
no further platform development
can be a bit clunky.
due to obsolecense, can be hard to acquire unless you know someone willing to provide "backup copies" of the software.

Tunercat OBD2 (Jet DST is similar, but I'm not sure how the VDF's and licenses work)
tuning options based on which definition files(VDF's) you have purchased, no restrictions on how many cars per VDF (probably the fairest for the producer and consumer)
highly developed
no datalogging.
hard to get/can get expensive where available.

------------------
"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."

cognita semper

IP: Logged

next newest topic | next oldest topic

All times are ET (US)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | Back To Main Page

Advertizing on PFF | Fiero Parts Vendors
PFF Merchandise | Fiero Gallery
Real-Time Chat | Fiero Related Auctions on eBay



Copyright (c) 1999, C. Pennock