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DONE WITH THE REAR END, NOW WHAT ABOUT THE FRONT??? by eti engineer
Started on: 01-02-2022 08:26 PM
Replies: 12 (215 views)
Last post by: eti engineer on 01-07-2022 08:48 AM
eti engineer
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Report this Post01-02-2022 08:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for eti engineerClick Here to Email eti engineerSend a Private Message to eti engineerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
As you all know, I finally got my '88 back on the road. I will be taking it in soon to have the engine builder fix his leaking rear seal, but I am torn about that at this point. The leakage has actually lessened dramatically, but since it is under warranty, I guess I should let them do the repairs. I am worried about whether or not these people know the nuances of working on a Fiero. I pulled the engine originally and took just the engine in to be rebuilt, but I do not want to have to do that again. The rear main seal was one of the few things that didn't leak on the engine. Now it is the only thing.

All this aside, I want to turn my attention to the front end. Nothing has ever been done to it, except for the new shocks I installed. Everything seems to be tight. No play in the steering. I had it aligned and there was no reported problem with the front end, unlike my Dakota truck which required a complete rebuild, which I did. I don't know if everything in the front end is original, but I have done a visual on it and it appears to be fine. When I ordered the sway bar bushings for the rear end rebuild, I accidentally ordered the bushings for the front end. So I have those already. They are a 1/4" larger in diameter than the rear ones, for the record.

I just read one of the latest posts in here with some photos of a rack and pinion that were totally shot. That being said, what maintenance should be done to the assembly? What about lubrication and how is it added/applied and the old stuff removed? I know nothing about Fiero steering, so I am asking to make sure I don't end up with a steering that breaks while I am carving up a canyon road.

Thanks in advance and Happy New Year to us all!!!!

[This message has been edited by eti engineer (edited 01-02-2022).]

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Gall757
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Report this Post01-04-2022 11:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The 88 wheel bearings and steering rack are unique to that year only, and the stock parts are probably better than any replacement, so if everything is tight I would leave it as is.
'carving up' roads a few times is fine, as long as you don't go racing. There are many posts complaining about 88 front wheel bearings, and nearly all of the problems were on cars that were used in competitions.
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Report this Post01-04-2022 02:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetClick Here to Email cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
One problem with older cars is that they were not really built for modern tires. Case in point, I have General G-Max all-season tires on my '85; Those tires will exceed the performance of the hottest tire you could buy back in the 80s...With these I am pulling approx' .9+ lateral G.......If you go with some truly high-performance tires, you can easily exceed 1.1 Gs...

I know I have a very different opinion from some on here- I never thought I would be the "BEST!!!" or the "FASTEST" so I am happy to drive a car that can be drifted (Old meaning) thru turns at 10-20 mph faster than the sign says (25 MPH I can enjoy at 40 MPH) Some of the modern cars (And Fieros with larger Ultra-performance tires) would have to be going 50-80 MPH to "Have fun" in those same 25 MPH turns.

My father told me of drifting his Jowett Jupiter thru turns- In TRAFFIC- because it would drift at a very low speed; That car probably only pulled .6 G in a turn....But he was having fun with his small car and, if he did make a mistake, he might knock down some weeds......At 80 in a new Vette, if you make a mistake, you are going to have a much bigger problem.

Wheel bearings and suspension bushings on our old cars were not really designed for 1.1+ Gs....Most of it will hold up, but some things will fail very quickly.
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Report this Post01-04-2022 04:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for A_Lonely_PotatoSend a Private Message to A_Lonely_PotatoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cvxjet:

I know I have a very different opinion from some on here- I never thought I would be the "BEST!!!" or the "FASTEST" so I am happy to drive a car that can be drifted (Old meaning) thru turns at 10-20 mph faster than the sign says (25 MPH I can enjoy at 40 MPH) Some of the modern cars (And Fieros with larger Ultra-performance tires) would have to be going 50-80 MPH to "Have fun" in those same 25 MPH turns.



There is a road in my town with 4 90° bends (recommended 35MPH) that I can take at 60 in my fiero. Can feel my insides all slosh to one side lol. I can only do that in the right hand turns though, my oil pressure drops in the lefts
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Report this Post01-04-2022 06:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetClick Here to Email cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Every spring I like to drive Mines road south from Livermore- windy road with ranches, etc......Goes up over Mt. Hamilton (Lick Observatory)....In the middle of absolute nowhere, there is a place to stop for lunch (The Junction).....Once was driving east from that junction and had a Mini Cooper S start tailgating me- I knew there was a bicyclist in front of us so was taking it a bit slow. Got past the biker and the Mini gets right on my back bumper, so I told my GF to hold on, dropped a gear and took off...left the Mini like it was tied to a tree...after a mile I decided to slow down (My GF had invented 2 new words and I didn't want to recover the passenger seat) The Mini took 2 miles to catch back up and never got within 100 feet of me afterwards. That was one of only a few times I had the car up at 9 tenths...Usually I run between 7 & 8 tenths on (well-known) curvy roads.

I installed a 87-88 GT instrument panel in my 85 SE V6 so I don't have an Oil pressure gauge- used to have a different car that had a very sensitive oil pressure gauge- drove me nuts with it swinging back and forth at every twitch of the throttle.

[This message has been edited by cvxjet (edited 01-04-2022).]

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eti engineer
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Report this Post01-05-2022 09:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for eti engineerClick Here to Email eti engineerSend a Private Message to eti engineerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Gall757:

The 88 wheel bearings and steering rack are unique to that year only, and the stock parts are probably better than any replacement, so if everything is tight I would leave it as is.
'carving up' roads a few times is fine, as long as you don't go racing. There are many posts complaining about 88 front wheel bearings, and nearly all of the problems were on cars that were used in competitions.

[This message has been edited by eti engineer (edited 01-05-2022).]

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Report this Post01-05-2022 09:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for eti engineerClick Here to Email eti engineerSend a Private Message to eti engineerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cvxjet:

One problem with older cars is that they were not really built for modern tires. Case in point, I have General G-Max all-season tires on my '85; Those tires will exceed the performance of the hottest tire you could buy back in the 80s...With these I am pulling approx' .9+ lateral G.......If you go with some truly high-performance tires, you can easily exceed 1.1 Gs...

I know I have a very different opinion from some on here- I never thought I would be the "BEST!!!" or the "FASTEST" so I am happy to drive a car that can be drifted (Old meaning) thru turns at 10-20 mph faster than the sign says (25 MPH I can enjoy at 40 MPH) Some of the modern cars (And Fieros with larger Ultra-performance tires) would have to be going 50-80 MPH to "Have fun" in those same 25 MPH turns.

My father told me of drifting his Jowett Jupiter thru turns- In TRAFFIC- because it would drift at a very low speed; That car probably only pulled .6 G in a turn....But he was having fun with his small car and, if he did make a mistake, he might knock down some weeds......At 80 in a new Vette, if you make a mistake, you are going to have a much bigger problem.

Wheel bearings and suspension bushings on our old cars were not really designed for 1.1+ Gs....Most of it will hold up, but some things will fail very quickly.


I know about the g's. There is an ess curve near where I live that is posted at 35 mph. I can take it at 65 mph, which I usually do. I can really feel the road pushing back on the front tires via the steering wheel, and I wonder if something is going to break in the front end. The main thing I want to know is what maintenance needs to be done with the rack and pinion. I've owned other vehicles with rack and pinion steering, but never long enough to worry about doing anything to the steering. This is why I am asking about lubrication or adjustment, or some other type of maintenance I should be doing. I mean, the unit is almost 35 years old and I doubt anything has ever been done to it.
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Report this Post01-05-2022 09:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for eti engineerClick Here to Email eti engineerSend a Private Message to eti engineerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

eti engineer

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Member since Mar 2017
 
quote
Originally posted by Gall757:

The 88 wheel bearings and steering rack are unique to that year only, and the stock parts are probably better than any replacement, so if everything is tight I would leave it as is.
'carving up' roads a few times is fine, as long as you don't go racing. There are many posts complaining about 88 front wheel bearings, and nearly all of the problems were on cars that were used in competitions.


What about lubrication?

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eti engineer
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Report this Post01-05-2022 09:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for eti engineerClick Here to Email eti engineerSend a Private Message to eti engineerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cvxjet:

Every spring I like to drive Mines road south from Livermore- windy road with ranches, etc......Goes up over Mt. Hamilton (Lick Observatory)....In the middle of absolute nowhere, there is a place to stop for lunch (The Junction).....Once was driving east from that junction and had a Mini Cooper S start tailgating me- I knew there was a bicyclist in front of us so was taking it a bit slow. Got past the biker and the Mini gets right on my back bumper, so I told my GF to hold on, dropped a gear and took off...left the Mini like it was tied to a tree...after a mile I decided to slow down (My GF had invented 2 new words and I didn't want to recover the passenger seat) The Mini took 2 miles to catch back up and never got within 100 feet of me afterwards. That was one of only a few times I had the car up at 9 tenths...Usually I run between 7 & 8 tenths on (well-known) curvy roads.

I installed a 87-88 GT instrument panel in my 85 SE V6 so I don't have an Oil pressure gauge- used to have a different car that had a very sensitive oil pressure gauge- drove me nuts with it swinging back and forth at every twitch of the throttle.




Your car and mine are very similar. I used to live in Livermore, but now I live in the Central Valley, near Stockton, so I am very familiar with Mines Rd. I should jump over the Altamont some day and buy you lunch.

[This message has been edited by eti engineer (edited 01-05-2022).]

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Report this Post01-05-2022 11:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetClick Here to Email cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have never done anything to my rack & Pinion....Owned since new (85) and 195,000 miles on it- just about every cloverleaf I drove thru I drift her.

Coming home from NAS Alameda south-bound on 880 I would exit at Marina Blvd....The cloverleaf had a slight tightening halfway- I would practice the DTO every day there- get her to the limit, then at the spot cut the throttle- the rear would come around perfectly tightening my line. Once a guy in a BMW 3-series was tailgating me (I slow a bit to allow traffic to clear the turn)....I dropped a gear and then really pushed it- when I cut the throttle, it came around fast....Caught it and then cranked the throttle.....Lost sight of Bummer-gater....

At the next light, as I was turning the stereo back on, here he finally came.....Pulled up next to me- And he looked white as a ghost! ("I own a B-M-W! I can beat anyone thru a turn!")

Come on over and we can get some lunch- or we could drive up Mines and stop at the Junction for lunch- Either way, bring your Fiero (But I have to replace the Alt on mine so maybe a week or three)
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Report this Post01-05-2022 12:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by eti engineer:


What about lubrication?

The wheel bearings were designed to be sealed and not re-packed. It can be done anyway by a competent mechanic, but if there are no leaks they should be OK. There is always a chance that dirt finds it's way into the re-pack and ruins the bearing when it was fine to begin with.
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eti engineer
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Report this Post01-07-2022 08:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for eti engineerClick Here to Email eti engineerSend a Private Message to eti engineerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Gall757:

The wheel bearings were designed to be sealed and not re-packed. It can be done anyway by a competent mechanic, but if there are no leaks they should be OK. There is always a chance that dirt finds it's way into the re-pack and ruins the bearing when it was fine to begin with.


Good information. I am of the opinion to leave wheel bearings alone. When I was younger, in the 60's, I used to repack my front wheel bearings, but technology seems to have advanced. If they are sealed, I am not going to mees with them.
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Report this Post01-07-2022 08:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for eti engineerClick Here to Email eti engineerSend a Private Message to eti engineerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

eti engineer

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Member since Mar 2017
OK. I will let you know when I get a free moment and we can make a time to meet up. Lunch is my treat....
 
quote
Originally posted by cvxjet:

I have never done anything to my rack & Pinion....Owned since new (85) and 195,000 miles on it- just about every cloverleaf I drove thru I drift her.

Coming home from NAS Alameda south-bound on 880 I would exit at Marina Blvd....The cloverleaf had a slight tightening halfway- I would practice the DTO every day there- get her to the limit, then at the spot cut the throttle- the rear would come around perfectly tightening my line. Once a guy in a BMW 3-series was tailgating me (I slow a bit to allow traffic to clear the turn)....I dropped a gear and then really pushed it- when I cut the throttle, it came around fast....Caught it and then cranked the throttle.....Lost sight of Bummer-gater....

At the next light, as I was turning the stereo back on, here he finally came.....Pulled up next to me- And he looked white as a ghost! ("I own a B-M-W! I can beat anyone thru a turn!")

Come on over and we can get some lunch- or we could drive up Mines and stop at the Junction for lunch- Either way, bring your Fiero (But I have to replace the Alt on mine so maybe a week or three)


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