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Clutch issues. Is it the lever? by Blitz54
Started on: 07-11-2021 09:51 PM
Replies: 4 (216 views)
Last post by: Blitz54 on 07-26-2021 02:11 PM
Blitz54
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Report this Post07-11-2021 09:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Blitz54Send a Private Message to Blitz54Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So kinda long story. Replaced master and slave cylinder. Bled it and it was working last weekend. Took the car this weekend to my friends, and it wouldn't get into gear when I went to leave.

So I had my friend help me bleed it... big mistake. Let it be known, this is the same guy who stripped his oil pan plug by over tightening it with a ratchet wrench when he was trying to remove it.

I had him push the clutch down while I worked the bleeder at the slave. I told him "down", and a fraction of a second later he said "down". The dude hammered the clutch pedal with all his might. With his right foot, and his heel on the pedal. After the second time I told him go easy on it. I hop in the car to start it and try the clutch out, and now it won't start. The pedal also stops almost an inch before the floorboards, where before the metal on the pedal could touch the carpet. Couldn't figure it out for a while, but ended up the clutch safety switch wasn't working, so he must have knocked it out of place with his toes, while he used his heel on the pedal. This is also a dude who drives a standard Mustang, so I assumed he had a slight idea how to operate a clutch.

Still couldn't get into gear, so I had my dad come lead me home on the back roads. I had to put it in second gear, and then start it with the safety switch bypassed. Got home, parked it and googled it for a while.

I looked at it a bit this morning, and I think I know what happened, but let me know what you guys think. The lever the slave cylinder pushes is farther back now, around 3/4 of an inch. Before I could get my middle and index finger on the lever and pull it towards the slave just a touch, but now I can barely get my finger on it. The rod for the slave cylinder is also loose, as in I can jiggle it around a little bit with my finger when the pedal is up. And the rubber looks like it's more extended than usual too. So what I THINK happened, is when he hammered down with his full body behind it, the lever must have either slipped a few teeth on the shaft, or maybe it cracked by the shaft connection. So when I press the pedal, I get about 1/2 inch throw, and then the piston hits the snap ring in the slave, because the lever started so far away from the rod.

This is an 86 4 speed V6. Not exactly sure which lever/arm mine has, but maybe it's the one most likely to break from what I've read? If it did slip a few teeth, where should the lever be positioned exactly? Hoping it's not something internal, it was driving fine right before this.
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Patrick
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Report this Post07-11-2021 10:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

It's rather difficult to tell exactly what's going on... but I would suspect that the clutch pedal or banjo would bend before anything at the other end would get damaged by your idiot friend stomping on the clutch pedal. What the hell was he trying to prove?
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Report this Post07-12-2021 08:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I agree with Patrick, but it seems that if the pushrod is bent, the pedal would actually hit the floor and sit lower in its released position. Could even be he bent the attachment point on the pedal. It's unlikely the release lever at the transmission moved. It's on a splined shaft and has a pinch bolt running through a slot on the side of the shaft to prevent that from happening. The old stamped steel release arm can bend, though. It might also be that the slave piston has stuck on varnish buildup inside the slave bore. Hope he didn't bend or break the clutch release arm inside the bellhousing.

If you find that the master pushrod is bent, be sure the curl faces upward when you install the replacement.

Instead of having a dumb friend pump the pedal, thus breaking up any air into tiny bubbles that will congeal later, jack up the left front wheel just enough to get it off the ground. Fill the master reservoir then open the slave bleeder. Bump the slave with a heavy object occasionally to dislodge any bubbles stuck inside. Watch the reservoir and top it up before it runs dry. Run 2 full reservoirs of fresh fluid through the system while occasionally bumping the slave. On the 3rd top-off, close the bleeder when the fluid level drops to the FULL mark. Your system should be fully bled.
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Blitz54
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Report this Post07-12-2021 01:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Blitz54Send a Private Message to Blitz54Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sorry guys, I'm on my phone so it's a little too difficult to quote properly on here.

Thanks for the input. I still have to inspect things some more, but I couldn't see or feel any bend on the banjo for the master cylinder. I disconnected it from the pedal, and it's sitting where it should, fully extended, and lines up with the pedal properly. I can't say for sure if the U part of the pedal is straight or not, as I've read sometimes it looks fine but is actually bent upon removal.

The pedal seems to be sitting in the same spot as when it was working though, and with the banjo disconnected the pedal touches the floor in the same spot on the carpet.

I'm pretty confident it's something near the slave. I figured the lever because I do have the old style stamped version. My clutch system worked great for two years, but then one week I ran out of fluid. What I'm thinking happened, is the lever bent from use over time, or slipped a tooth. Ideally it shouldn't be able to slip, but I have no idea if it was tightened down, maybe the PO had touched it at some point. But once it bent, it moved the slave cylinders piston farther to the end of the bore, which upon replacement I could see lots of corrosion/build up at the last 1.5 inches of the slave.

So I'm hoping the lever was bent, and my friend hammering on the pedal was too much for the already weakened lever. This would be a much easier fix than something internal. And I'm not sure what else could get bent/broken from hammering on it, especially when it wasn't fully disengaging in the first place, so ideally he wasn't able to break something inside.

I also noticed when driving, that it seemed quite a bit more difficult to take the car out of gear without the clutch. Before all this, if you were in gear and took your foot off the gas, you could just lightly press the shifter and it could slip out of gear. But now, it feels incredibly difficult, it felt like I was trying to force it INTO gear without the clutch disengaging. Could this also be related? Maybe before this I was never fully engaged?
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Report this Post07-26-2021 02:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Blitz54Send a Private Message to Blitz54Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So, no pics yet. But I was right. The clutch lever is toast. It was cracked in 4 or 5 spots around the shaft area, and then twisted and bent from there. We tried to get it back and weld it but it's just too intricate and too much of a hassle. Literally all of it is bent in some way so no idea what angle anything should be.

Looking into getting a cast iron lever next I guess. I see what you guys meant though, the splines on the shaft are only on each side, and the bolt can only go in one way. I thought it was like the others I've seen where the bolt groove is around the whole shaft. So yes, it couldn't slip a tooth, but it definitely wasn't where it was supposed to be haha.
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