I was thinking about this when I was replacing my front exhaust manifold that I don't think I've seen anyone ever compiled a list of worst repair jobs on a stock V6 Fiero so I thought I'd do it.
My criteria: Must be a common replacement item. Doesn't include pant/body work. Doesn't include something catastrophic like rebuilding engine or transmission.
Less Worse 11) Distributor rebuild 10) Alternator (especially automatic transmission) 9) Rear brakes with e-brake caliper rebuild 8) Outer Dew Wipes 7) Fuel Pump 6) Steering rack rebuild 5) Torsion bar replacement 4) Water pump 3) Rubber to Poly Suspension rebuild 2) Front Exhaust Manifold 1) Clutch Worst
Most of my experience is with the duke. Ive done the clutch twice inside the car and the rear main. Id rank rear main seal worse. On the v6 you have that rear cam seal that is almost just as bad as a rear main. The oil pan is pretty awful. The valve cover gaskets on the V6 is not fun. I don't remember Poly being bad except i bent my rear control arm and had to swap to tubular as a replacement. I have 2 cars that need poly so we will see. Also 88 vs pre 88 poly will be different.
One of the worse jobs that I ever did on my Fiero was the replacement of the window motor and side window glass. You've got to strip the door to the bone just to get in there. Dew wipes can be a PITA but doable. One of the most tedious jobs was stripping down the steering column to get at the 4 bolts that hold the tilt mechanism in place. The water pump can be a pain to replace as corroded bolts break. Clutches and transmissions require a lot of work to replace but none of the steps are usually hard, save for the rear cradle bolts on occasion.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
85 duke auto w/ AC. Owned 10 years as of this month. Driven maybe 20 000 miles during this time.
Diagnosing and replacing the fuel pump. Not enough fuel pressure due to leaking hose inside the tank.
Diagnosing and fixing an overheating issue and hot and cold start misfire - leaking intake manifold gasket causing cylinder nr 4 drinking just a bit of that coolant.
Fixing valve and pushrod cover gasket oil leaks. That is impossible, the covers themselves are too flimsy and prone to overtorque causing them to bend and never seal.
Headlight motors. Stripped gears, repair kits' rubbers too soft, torque switches inside the motor not bending enough to break the circuit. This system caused my headlights to be permanently up for years now.
Auto tranny jerking into D. Never fixed that. For all those years it still smashes into D and still works perfectly aside from this issue.
Overall build quality, panels not lining up, felt guides scratching the windows, rattling doors.
Aside from all this it just rides cool and there's nothing else like it on the roads today over here.
Fieros........ making ace mechanics out of ordinary men! Not my quote but read it here a while back.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
One of the worse jobs that I ever did on my Fiero was the replacement of the window motor and side window glass. You've got to strip the door to the bone just to get in there. Dew wipes can be a PITA but doable. One of the most tedious jobs was stripping down the steering column to get at the 4 bolts that hold the tilt mechanism in place. The water pump can be a pain to replace as corroded bolts break. Clutches and transmissions require a lot of work to replace but none of the steps are usually hard, save for the rear cradle bolts on occasion.
Actually did the removal on a junkyard car a few weeks ago. It wasn't *that* bad except no drill available because my cordless couldn't spin fast enough to drill out the rivets. Had to spend several hours trying to cut away at the metal with wire cutters until I got them free.Hands were blistered to heck. Had I been at home with electricity I don't think it would have been too bad. It can all be done inside the car door (not removing the skin). I'll be putting the replacement glass in my own car soon so maybe I'll have other thoughts then.
I guess it is harder than the dew wipes but is replacing glass a normal maintenance problem? This will be the first time I've had to do it in 5 Fieros I've owned. I've had to do one windshield replacement as well.
V6 coolant crossover pipe replacement. What a complete pain in the ass. Gave my vocabulary quite the workout. Even made up a few new words. Even frightened the dog.
Air conditioning repair, worse than alternator. Also transmission cooler lines, worse than the brake lines. I actually enjoyed the distributor rebuild.
My vote for worst Fiero repair is drilling out broken exhaust manifold bolts on the 2.8's forward bank. Sure, things like clutch replacement are a lot of work... but it's more or less straightforward and predictable. I found that drilling out broken bolts in a very confined space to be a nightmare.
I didn't think water pump was that bad. At least not on a 2.8.
But can we mention V6 spark plugs?
Those aren't bad at all. I just need one flex joint in my ratchet and it's a breeze. I even have the rubber seal on the decklid as well. Of course it's entirely by feel not sight.
While not repairs that I've done, I'd have to agree with the rear windshield & frame rail rust. Anytime that I've seen a Fiero scrapped due to frame rail rust, often the only item left on it is the rear window.
I didn't think that the distributor rebuild was that tough. Ogre's detailed instructions were easy to follow. One of my first repairs on the road when the 3.4L was in.
V6 coolant crossover pipe replacement. What a complete pain in the ass. Gave my vocabulary quite the workout. Even made up a few new words. Even frightened the dog.
Oh yeah, definitely the coolant crossover pipe.
Also getting to one of the pulley-end bolts on the forward exhaust manifold requires unbolting the A/C compressor bracket from the block/head.
In some ways my Northstar, despite filling WAY more of the engine bay, is EASIER to work on.
[This message has been edited by Will (edited 05-17-2021).]
V6 coolant crossover pipe replacement. What a complete pain in the ass.
quote
Originally posted by Will:
Oh yeah, definitely the coolant crossover pipe.
Are you guys doing it with the engine in the car?
I'm going to drop my engine this year and replacement of the crossover pipe is high on my list of things to do with it out. Just because. Just becuase I've never even SEEN the thing! I don't know if it's in good shape or ready to blow at any minute.
A lot of jobs on the fiero can be difficult if you don't have the right tools.
Working in the engine bay can be quite easy, but some thing are designed to be removed with the engine out of the car.
That's why when you have the engine out, its smart to service or replace parts that are difficult to do with the engine in the car. You have to plan your stuff wisely. Like the front exhaust manifold bolts that break, that's a job is reserved for engine out of car repair. Use new bolts at 10.9 rating.
My rule is when my engine is out, the alt, w/p, starter, clutch is automatically replaced; no question.
For those that have A/C, that would be done too.
Same thing is probably going to be done to the C8 for corvette owners.
1. Getting that giant oil filter cover that goes into the bottom of the sump on an 88 duke to seal. 2. Replacing power windows motors (still missing skin from back of hand!). 3. Getting a/c system to seal/work after flushing/replacing everything due to black death. STILL not fixed years later! 4. Re-installing the 'return springs' that push on the lever on the rear brakes. That's always a good fight.... 5. Fixing broken brake bleed nipples! 6. Installing a new throttle cable, especially hooking it up to the pedal. Lost even more skin from the hands doing that, plus there's no room for a big guy like me to get down there under the dash. ------------------ Anything I might say is probably worth what you paid for it, so treat it accordingly!
Fieros are relatively easy to work on compared to many cars of the era, and a breeze when compared to a modern vehicle.
What are you guys complaining about?
🙂
I think a lot of modern cars aren't difficult, but you do have to mind assembly order.
Some '80's cars were awful. Many '90's cars were awful. There was a period of time in the mid '90's when MFGs were getting suppliers to product modules instead of just components. So Valeo may make great heat exchangers, but they know jack about headlights... but still might be on contract for a "front module" for a car with included the cooling stack, but also the headlights. That kind of modularity is bad and leads to extreme maintenance headaches because the modules are designed without knowledge of each other.
I had a 1990 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD. The AWD system wasn't bad to work on, but the general engine compartment jobs were absolutely horrendous. It spat out the center spark plug from the rear bank (firewall side). Working on it in situ was impossible, so my only option was to pull the heads and do the job on the bench... which in itself was incredibly heinous because EVERYTHING had to come off the engine... even the A/C compressor (bottom of the engine) bracket which doubled as the dogbone (top of the engine) mount.
1. Getting that giant oil filter cover that goes into the bottom of the sump on an 88 duke to seal. 2. Replacing power windows motors (still missing skin from back of hand!). 3. Getting a/c system to seal/work after flushing/replacing everything due to black death. STILL not fixed years later! 4. Re-installing the 'return springs' that push on the lever on the rear brakes. That's always a good fight.... 5. Fixing broken brake bleed nipples! 6. Installing a new throttle cable, especially hooking it up to the pedal. Lost even more skin from the hands doing that, plus there's no room for a big guy like me to get down there under the dash.
FYI #5 just buy new caliper #4 if you turn the adjuster so the driver side is slack, this job is simple,
Fieros........ making ace mechanics out of ordinary men!
and also making choir boys swear like a sailor there is no top ten, it's all painful
every time I've had to repair my Fiero over the last 30+ years I swear I.m going to put it up for sale then it's fixed and I forget about selling it until the next repair
you've got to be a glutton for punishment to own a V-6 Fiero I'd love to own a C8 Vette, but them I think about working on the Fiero and I'm willing to bet C8 owners aren't near as helpfull as Fiero owners I think I'll keep my C6
I handed my calipers to a machinist friend of mine. Told him "no heroic efforts" because I knew I could get rebuilt calipers for a decent price.
He did give me a rock bottom price, but with his time it still came out to $25 a caliper. That's JUST for removing the bleeders.
Then, with the rebuild kits (the fronts weren't bad), the new bleeder screws, and cleaning....nope...never again. Heck, I still can't get my rears to work properly, and I tore at least three dust covers.
I'm on my 4th Fiero and my first V6....where is this coolant crossover pipe you speak of and why does it need replacing? I have hardly ever had to mess with the cooling system on my past Duke cars.
I'm on my 4th Fiero and my first V6....where is this coolant crossover pipe you speak of and why does it need replacing? I have hardly ever had to mess with the cooling system on my past Duke cars.
The V6 thermostat housing is at the pulley end of the engine. There is a steel tube that goes from the thermostat housing coolant outlet down to the left side coolant tube. While the front to back coolant tubes are stainless, the crossover pipe is NOT stainless and can/will eventually rust through. The Fiero Store has/had stainless replacements, but not for all configs due to demand. The pipe is different '84-'87 to '88 and also between auto and stick transmissions.
Because the crossover tube goes across the FRONT of the engine between the engine and the firewall and gets covered with oily scunge, it's also extremely difficult to even see that it's leaking, much less R&R it.
The V6 thermostat housing is at the pulley end of the engine. There is a steel tube that goes from the thermostat housing coolant outlet down to the left side coolant tube. While the front to back coolant tubes are stainless, the crossover pipe is NOT stainless and can/will eventually rust through. The Fiero Store has/had stainless replacements, but not for all configs due to demand. The pipe is different '84-'87 to '88 and also between auto and stick transmissions.
Because the crossover tube goes across the FRONT of the engine between the engine and the firewall and gets covered with oily scunge, it's also extremely difficult to even see that it's leaking, much less R&R it.
I handed my calipers to a machinist friend of mine. Told him "no heroic efforts" because I knew I could get rebuilt calipers for a decent price.
He did give me a rock bottom price, but with his time it still came out to $25 a caliper. That's JUST for removing the bleeders.
Then, with the rebuild kits (the fronts weren't bad), the new bleeder screws, and cleaning....nope...never again. Heck, I still can't get my rears to work properly, and I tore at least three dust covers.
Good luck getting a properly rebuilt 88 rear. After three exchanges I realized they weren't actually rebuilding the calipers internally just putting on a few new external seals.
I have an '88 GT with original 2.8 and TH125. Of the jobs in the original list, I've
Rebuilt the distributor (actually a new one to shim to remove end play) I did not find this too bad. Replaced the alternator (a pain but made easier when I installed Dodgerunner's bracket and tensioner) Replaced outer dew wipes (a tremendous PITA) Replaced water pump (definitely not fun)
I also replaced the coolant pipe and all hoses. For me that ranks close to the top as the worst, largely because of the trouble I had getting the A/C compressor bracket bolts back into the head
But for me, the worst job (that I haven't seen listed yet, unless I missed it) is: Timing chain replacement (engine in car) I did this when I did the water pump, so that didn't help, but pulling/reinstalling the balancer and crank sprocket were the worst parts. Glad I did it though. I did this about when I did the distributor in an effort to eliminate spark scatter. In the end, that was way better.
Real easy job but my Fiero has no CAT and is used exclusively for "off road use only" . Must say though that it gets difficult to attend Carlisle.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Them dang outer dew wipes.....I have used up a French dictionary and started on a Russian dictionary doing that job!
Maybe we should ask Dorman to just make replacement DOORS.........That way we never have to replace the dew wipes.........Arrrrrrrgggggggggggggggg.............Arrrrrrggggggggggg!
Originally posted by css9450: Are you guys doing it with the engine in the car?
I'm going to drop my engine this year and replacement of the crossover pipe is high on my list of things to do with it out. Just because. Just becuase I've never even SEEN the thing! I don't know if it's in good shape or ready to blow at any minute.
I did mine (the coolant tube) with it in the car. At first glance, it appears like it could be done fairly easily. But you have to take off about fifteen things to get to it. It is right under the front exhaust manifold. Between the A/C compressor and the block. And it looks like there's room to slide the "upright" portion of it down between the head and the upper A/C bracket. Looks like it might just slide through. And no matter how you turn it, or twist if, in juuuussst won't. You have to remove the upper A/C bracket. Which requires the removal of a bunch of other stuff, first. You also need to drop the exhaust system, especially if you still have a cat. I'm not sure about the starter, but it seems like I dropped that too. (Well... why not? I've already disassembled most of the rest of the front side of the engine.)
With that said, knowing what I know, I'd probably still do it again. I just wouldn't waste a bunch of time trying to "finesse" some of the shortcuts that look like they'd work. I'd just start taking stuff off.
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 05-23-2021).]
Thankfully I haven't ever had an issue with a crossover but it sounds a lot like the front manifold. Now that I've removed the A/C bracket and know where all the bolts are, it isn't as bad as I feared. I think I can remove the A/C bracket in 30 minutes next time around. For me the hardest time was trying to figure out where all the bolts were to remove them...I'd thought I had them all...then why isn't it moving...oh one more bolt...where is it. It was a fun time trying to line the bolts up to reattach but that's also something that's easier the second time around.
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:
I did mine (the coolant tube) with it in the car. At first glance, it appears like it could be done fairly easily. But you have to take off about fifteen things to get to it. It is right under the front exhaust manifold. Between the A/C compressor and the block. And it looks like there's room to slide the "upright" portion of it down between the head and the upper A/C bracket. Looks like it might just slide through. And no matter how you turn it, or twist if, in juuuussst won't. You have to remove the upper A/C bracket. Which requires the removal of a bunch of other stuff, first. You also need to drop the exhaust system, especially if you still have a cat. I'm not sure about the starter, but it seems like I dropped that too. (Well... why not? I've already disassembled most of the rest of the front side of the engine.)
With that said, knowing what I know, I'd probably still do it again. I just wouldn't waste a bunch of time trying to "finesse" some of the shortcuts that look like they'd work. I'd just start taking stuff off.
Dew wipes - long job but really not THAT bad. Get an air-wedge like auto locksmiths use, couple nylon door wedges, and the smallest-head ratcheting apex driver you can find (used to be a Husky 1/4 and 5/16 dogbone, discontinued. Now Autozone sells it as just the 1/4 apex side.) Grind an apex bit to very low profile. Then you'll just need to tell that **** useless cut-apex-welded-to-a-stick 'dew wipe tool' that somebody sells where it can go.
Alternator on a V6 Auto... when the long alternator pivot bolt snaps and holds the alternator captive in the bracket. It would be faster and easier to just drop the whole cradle, but eventually that can somehow barely worm out the aft side of passenger wheelwell. "Hey mister, why is there a jack between your trunk and engine?"
Dew wipes - long job but really not THAT bad. Get an air-wedge like auto locksmiths use, couple nylon door wedges, and the smallest-head ratcheting apex driver you can find (used to be a Husky 1/4 and 5/16 dogbone, discontinued. Now Autozone sells it as just the 1/4 apex side.) Grind an apex bit to very low profile.
Do you have a link to what bit you're talking about at Autozone. I use the Rodney tool but it's still pretty tough even with that.
Tools referenced above as "Dew wipes aren't that bad"
1/4" & 5/16" 15 deg reversible ratcheting dogbone (Home depot) - Husky pro - 66604 (haven't been able to find on for a couple years)
1/4" 15 deg reversible ratcheting driver (Autozone or AdvanceAuto?) Toolworks - '1/4" bit reverse gear' '1/4 bits ratchet' chrome body, yellow handle with black overmold
Air wedge (Menards) - Win-bag 300lb.
Nylon door wedges (Most truckstops) - automotive lock bypass kit. It's in a large flat clamshell type package, red & clear bag to store parts. It's also got a bunch of wires, slimjims, jigglers, strap tool... Chainsaw wedges (to hold saw kerf in wood open) work just as well.
For the really bad screws that are camming out, pump the door open enough to get finger between ratchet head & window, let air back out. It'll hurt, but it gets them to break free without messing up stuff. Also a dab of 'valve grinding compound' on the bit goes a long way.
[This message has been edited by Jerb (edited 05-29-2021).]
ive never installed one but removing them has not been fun.
