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Bump steer by sd_iconoclast
Started on: 05-06-2021 04:02 PM
Replies: 16 (340 views)
Last post by: sd_iconoclast on 05-16-2021 01:20 PM
sd_iconoclast
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Report this Post05-06-2021 04:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sd_iconoclastSend a Private Message to sd_iconoclastEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have an 88 Formula that seems to be experiencing quite a bit of looseness in the steering.
I jacked up the front end and removed the wheels. I found that the ball joints and tie rod ends seem to be in very good condition.
My son and I tried to find play in the steering but could find none.
This surprised me because we are experiencing quite serious bump steer and some wandering.
Could it be the rear suspension?
What should we check for?
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Patrick
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Report this Post05-06-2021 04:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The '88 is notorious for a long bolt on either side of the rear suspension that can get loose and cause severe handling issues. I hadn't tightened up one of mine enough on my Formula after doing some suspension work, and I almost put the car through the fence at autocross due to the dangerous handling. If you can't find reference to the bolts I'm referring to in a Search of the forum, I'm sure someone will come along and better describe where they are.

[EDIT] Found a good thread all about these bolts - Installing Jam Nut on 88 Rear Suspension "Long Bolt"

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 05-06-2021).]

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Will
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Report this Post05-06-2021 05:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Install rod end lateral links and pull the bolt to 80 ftlbs. Problem solved
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sd_iconoclast
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Report this Post05-06-2021 06:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sd_iconoclastSend a Private Message to sd_iconoclastEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

Install rod end lateral links and pull the bolt to 80 ftlbs. Problem solved


What are "Rod end lateral links"?
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Patrick
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Report this Post05-06-2021 07:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sd_iconoclast:

What are "Rod end lateral links"?


They're what you see in the above image.

Just make sure those bolts are tightened to spec. Will's figure is somewhat higher than the factory specs (which are mentioned at my link).

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Blacktree
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Report this Post05-07-2021 02:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

They're what you see in the above image.

Those are stock lateral links.

Here's what rod end links look like.







It's a nice upgrade for the '88 rear suspension. It's also pretty simple and inexpensive, if you DIY it.
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Patrick
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Report this Post05-07-2021 02:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Blacktree:

Those are stock lateral links. Here's what rod end links look like...


Ah, I didn't realize Will was suggesting anything more than simply making sure to tighten up the long bolt that holds one end of the lateral links.

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Will
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Report this Post05-07-2021 09:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

They're what you see in the above image.

Just make sure those bolts are tightened to spec. Will's figure is somewhat higher than the factory specs (which are mentioned at my link).


Negative, ghost rider. The photo shows stock links with urethane bushings.

 
quote
Originally posted by Blacktree:

Those are stock lateral links.

Here's what rod end links look like.

https://i.imgur.com/A7ifHWU.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/sIhBxKT.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/JKjay8a.jpg

It's a nice upgrade for the '88 rear suspension. It's also pretty simple and inexpensive, if you DIY it.


Correctamundo.

It's one of the best bang/buck mods you can make to an '88 for suspension & handling purposes.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 05-07-2021).]

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Report this Post05-07-2021 09:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Will

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quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

Ah, I didn't realize Will was suggesting anything more than simply making sure to tighten up the long bolt that holds one end of the lateral links.


I was suggesting more than that... if you tighten the bolt to 80 ftlbs on stock rubber bushings, you'll crush/split the center sleeves. The center sleeves in the stock rubber bushings are butted; the center sleeves in urethane bushings are continuous, but still thin wall, in my observations, so they're going to squish a bit and affect bushing friction. The steel balls used in rod ends to do not squish like that, and preserve a good stiffness ratio in the bolted joint to ensure that the bolt does not work loose.

Is the stock spec torque + angle?
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Patrick
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Report this Post05-07-2021 02:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

Is the stock spec torque + angle?


According to what was mentioned in the link I gave above, yes.

 
quote

The torque spec on the nut for this bolt is 37 ft-lbs + 90°, which works out to about 50 ft-lbs.



Re-tightening one or both bolts might be all the OP needs to do to eliminate the reported "looseness in the steering".
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Report this Post05-07-2021 05:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SpadesluckSend a Private Message to SpadesluckEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Rodney Dickman also makes a brace to take up that slack in that long bolt/spindle area.
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sd_iconoclast
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Report this Post05-09-2021 12:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sd_iconoclastSend a Private Message to sd_iconoclastEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My son and I checked the torque on the long bolts shown above. We found that both of them were torqued to less than 20 ft-lbs.
We torqued them to 50 ft-lbs. Our subsequent test drive showed that the "looseness" in the steering was better, but mostly still there.
We then replaced the end links on the front sway bar as the bushings were damaged. Maybe I had overtorqued them when I switched everything to poly about ten years ago.
This also seemed to have little effect.
Then my son noticed that there actually was play in the steering rack. We could not produce it with the wheels off, but the extra leverage that the wheels gave us was enough to allow us to move the rack (and the opposite wheel) without the steering wheel turning at all.
The steering effect we get is most noticeable when changing lanes on the freeway. Once you start changing lanes, it is as if the pavement keeps pulling you in that direction.
The same thing happens (mostly at high speed) when we hit a bump.
The steering rack itself looks (externally) like it is in good shape. The boots are not cracked and there does not appear to be fluid leaking anywhere.
Any ideas?
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Report this Post05-09-2021 02:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You can adjust the preload on the pinion gear, in the steering rack. Maybe try that?
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Will
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Report this Post05-10-2021 09:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Blacktree:

You can adjust the preload on the pinion gear, in the steering rack. Maybe try that?


That's *WAY* easier if you pull the bucket out of the front compartment first.
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sd_iconoclast
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Report this Post05-10-2021 11:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sd_iconoclastSend a Private Message to sd_iconoclastEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


That's *WAY* easier if you pull the bucket out of the front compartment first.


I didn't know the bucket came out. Is there anything tricky about it?

I am going to try the rack adjustment. I am just waiting for Rodney's tool to arrive.
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Patrick
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Report this Post05-10-2021 03:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sd_iconoclast:

I didn't know the bucket came out. Is there anything tricky about it?


It's been a few years since I last removed one... but if I recall correctly, the only thing that required any effort whatsoever was drilling out the rivets that held the brake line supports.
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Report this Post05-16-2021 01:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sd_iconoclastSend a Private Message to sd_iconoclastEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
We adjusted the preload on the pinion gear using Rodney's tool. That seem to have fixed the Problem.
I highly recommend Rodney's tool.
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