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331ci 86GT - Just for fun. by fishsticks
Started on: 05-04-2021 09:51 AM
Replies: 51 (871 views)
Last post by: fishsticks on 06-14-2021 06:03 PM
La fiera
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Report this Post05-12-2021 07:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fishsticks:
I am just razzing you.

I don't bother with flat tappet anything anymore, since roller ramp designs are so much better. The triple spring thing was for the old guys jumping coke cans in the back.

And I figured it was some sort of plenum on your car.

Where I come from, if we talk smack to you it means we like you.


Your coments didn't bother me at all mate. Looking forward to see your car running soon!

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La fiera
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Report this Post05-12-2021 07:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

La fiera

1811 posts
Member since Jun 2008
 
quote
Originally posted by fishsticks:
I am just razzing you.

I don't bother with flat tappet anything anymore, since roller ramp designs are so much better. The triple spring thing was for the old guys jumping coke cans in the back.

And I figured it was some sort of plenum on your car.

Where I come from, if we talk smack to you it means we like you.


Your coments didn't bother me at all mate. Looking forward to see your car running soon!

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Raydar
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Report this Post05-14-2021 11:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sent you a PM, if you've got a minute or two...
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fishsticks
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Report this Post05-18-2021 03:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fishsticksSend a Private Message to fishsticksEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Still waiting on the shortblock to ship out. But parts are starting to arrive.



Because the previous owner ran self aligning rocker with guide plates, the valves were put into a bit of a bind situation. This resulted in the guides being worn a bit funny on each intake valve. I noticed this when I first put the motor back together and just crossed my fingers it wouldn't use oil... buuuut it did. Rather than send these off to machine, I bought new castings. $225 each on Amazon. I'll port the new ones very lightly (mostly just casting flash cleanup). Also bought some light, undercut valves.


I really weighed overcamming the car to soften low speed torque but ultimately decided against it. Since I have a 2D timing table available I'm going to attempt to use that to manage torque in the same vein as traction control on newer vehicles. I also have launch control available on the Sniper and may see what I can make happen with that. This guy should put power peak in the 6000 range. I will run it with the 1.6 aluminum roller rockers I currently have.



Having this in my hands now, I got the measurements I really wanted off of it, and it will clear the passenger side axle. Awesome! 7qts (+ .5-1 for the remote oil filter) will work nicely with the high volume oil pump I got.

I guess I should go put the new heads together or something. Maybe drop the old motor out of the car...

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fishsticks
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Report this Post05-21-2021 10:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fishsticksSend a Private Message to fishsticksEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Today was a nice day. I should be driving this.



But I'm not - Because my shortblock hasn't shipped yet.


So I finished prepping and putting together a cylinder head instead.



Parts are piling up. Ready to get moving on this thing.

I do have a surprise being delivered on Monday at least...
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La fiera
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Report this Post05-26-2021 04:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fishsticks:

Still waiting on the shortblock to ship out. But parts are starting to arrive.



Because the previous owner ran self aligning rocker with guide plates, the valves were put into a bit of a bind situation. This resulted in the guides being worn a bit funny on each intake valve. I noticed this when I first put the motor back together and just crossed my fingers it wouldn't use oil... buuuut it did. Rather than send these off to machine, I bought new castings. $225 each on Amazon. I'll port the new ones very lightly (mostly just casting flash cleanup). Also bought some light, undercut valves.


I really weighed overcamming the car to soften low speed torque but ultimately decided against it. Since I have a 2D timing table available I'm going to attempt to use that to manage torque in the same vein as traction control on newer vehicles. I also have launch control available on the Sniper and may see what I can make happen with that. This guy should put power peak in the 6000 range. I will run it with the 1.6 aluminum roller rockers I currently have.



Hey Fish, what is the part number of the black spring seats on the heads?

Thanks

Rei

Having this in my hands now, I got the measurements I really wanted off of it, and it will clear the passenger side axle. Awesome! 7qts (+ .5-1 for the remote oil filter) will work nicely with the high volume oil pump I got.

I guess I should go put the new heads together or something. Maybe drop the old motor out of the car...


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fishsticks
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Report this Post05-27-2021 05:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fishsticksSend a Private Message to fishsticksEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by La fiera:
Hey Fish, what is the part number of the black spring seats on the heads?

Thanks

Rei


Lunati 86705-16

Comp 4705-16 will also work.

OD 1.300
ID .570
Spring ID .875
.060 thickness
Jeg's emailed today to let me know the short block (that was supposed to ship on 5/17) is backordered until July 15th.

I'll admit I started looking at Dart blocks right after... but trying not to let mission creep set in.
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La fiera
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Report this Post05-27-2021 11:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks! I got the Comp Cams!
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fishsticks
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Report this Post06-06-2021 01:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fishsticksSend a Private Message to fishsticksEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Updates. I have them.

Waiting until Mid July to get a short block here wasn't working for me. So I cancelled the order.

Traded some turbo parts to a buddy and for this instead:





This is a .030 over rebuilt L31 block for over 8500 GVRW trucks.

The good:

  • Spheroidal graphite iron block
  • Forged crank
  • Powdered metal rods
  • 4 bolt mains


The bad:

  • Rebuilder pistons




Normal compression height for SBC pistons is 1.560". Most rebuilders use 1.540 pistons in stock rebuilds, so that there is room to deck the block if needed.

This block was not decked, which puts those pistons .045 in the hole (confirmed by measuring). I could eek out 9:1 compression with a 64cc head and a .015 gasket. Not great for NA.

There's no evidence the shop rebalanced the crank, and of course they just tossed these pistons in without matching anything. So a 1.560 compression height flat tops should work fine with the crank bob weight. Those will be here Monday with a 6cc relief and moly rings. Should make 10.2:1 compression with my heads. Easy peasy on pump gas.

Settled on the Lunati Voodoo 282 cam. 231/239 @ .050, .571/.587 lift on a 1.6 rocker.



I have a good set of head flow data and a pretty simple exhaust. So we should be in the ballpark on these numbers.

Anyway, this train is moving again finally! Also finished installing a Maxjax because I'm in my 40s and tired of working on my back. Hoping to build some momentum on this project quickly.

[This message has been edited by fishsticks (edited 06-14-2021).]

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Will
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Report this Post06-07-2021 10:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fishsticks:

The good:

  • Spheroidal graphite iron block
  • Forged crank
  • Powdered metal rods
  • 4 bolt mains





Don't forget:

  • Roller Cam!


Although Rei may disagree with me on that one
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fishsticks
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Report this Post06-07-2021 05:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fishsticksSend a Private Message to fishsticksEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


Don't forget:

  • Roller Cam!


Although Rei may disagree with me on that one


Fo sho. Though I have link bar roller lifters already anyway.
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fishsticks
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Report this Post06-14-2021 06:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fishsticksSend a Private Message to fishsticksEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Got some engine time in this weekend.

I really enjoy the build process. I turn some music on, close up the shop and just do the thing. It's a pretty relaxing thing actually, unlike working on stuff in the pits or at camp.

I'm bad at remembering to take pictures, but here's some of the ones I got.

A couple head porting shots. I'm not trying to reshape these ports, just clean up casting flash. I'm no porting savant and these ports aren't terrible as they come. I use a carbide burr set I bought on Amazon and a cordless drill. Wrap a rag around the shaft of the burr so you can guide it with your non-drill hand. Finish with an 80 grit sanding roll.





Vacuum out the shavings, hit it with compressed air and start assembly. Run a small bottle brush through the valve guides just in case.



Already posted a shot of the other head assembled. You get the idea.

Forged pistons. We're fancy now.



Gotta press the old pins out. Fortunately SBC pistons have flat side skirts, so you don't really need a round jig. (Yes, that's a spark plug socket)



The best way to install press fit pistons it by heating the small end of the rod to expand the hole. Prelube the pin holes in the piston with assembly lube and start the pin on one side.

Make sure you have your rod/piston oriented correctly. I like to write on the caps with a sharpie while they are still installed.

Heat the metal until it turns a light tan color. If it turns blue you have too much heat in it. I find another easy way to tell on used rods is to watch the "dry" area where the oil cooks out of the metal. When it's about halfway down the skinny part of the rod you're ready to go. You can see it in this picture.



Double check your cap mark, stick the small end into the piston and press the pin through with your finger. You have about 2-3 seconds to do this before the pin locks into place. Some guys make a jig to do this so they don't go to far, but I've got a pretty good feel for it. If you mess up and have a press, you can make a adjustment once the rod cools. They don't have to be exact down to the thousands, you just want full engagement when the rod is centered.



I recommend installing your oil control rings onto the pistons before installing the pins this way. All that heat is going to transfer into the piston and the rest of the rod. You generally put oil rings on by hand, and use an expander for compression rings. Putting oil rings onto a hot piston isn't much fun. The compression rings are easy.

While you wait for your piston to cool, check ring gap. Insert the ring into the bore.



Use an old piston with just the oil rings on as a squaring tool. Push the ring down into the bore with the piston until it stops.



Now check your ring gap. I set mine a little loose (.022-.025) in case I decide to do silly boost things to this engine later. The ring set I bought was already close. I think I needed to file 2 of them.



Install compression rings, put the piston into your install tool and tap it in.



In case anyone was wondering, this is the weight of a piston/rod assembly as the engine came to me, including bearings and rings. With the forged pistons and rings each ended up at 1462 +- 0.5gram. About a 23g gain per cylinder. SHOULD I have had the crank rebalanced? Probably. But this is a street engine that isn't going to see 6000RPM much. We should be ok.



Let's yank out the stock cam and install our lumpy one.



Converting to an older style double roller timing set. My 3 jaw pulled is apparently a 2 jaw puller now, but a split bearing puller fits.



The new crank sprocket can be heated to install, or you can grease the crank snout with assembly lube and tap it on with a large socket and a deadblow hammer. It should go on most of the way by hand.



Since I'm converting the timing set, I have to check clearance to the top oil galley boss. Sometimes you have to grind a bit off here. Can't really get a feeler gauge in there, so I put some grease on it, then installed the came sprocket and gave it a few turns while pushing inwards on it. Afterwards I still had grease on the boss, so there's no contact.



I'm running a remote electric water pump, so this hole needs to be tapped and plugged, or we'll have a coolant fountain. 7/16-14 threaded bolt does the trick. You could also drill and tap to 3/8 NPT for a plug, but I didn't have a tap for that and no one local had one.



Dropped a head on with a gasket and a couple bolts snugged down. Checked valvetrain geometry and piston to valve clearance. Didn't get pics of the process because my hands were covered in home-made playdough and oil. Lots of internet reading on how to do this though. Note the centered wear marks on the valve tips (good geometry!). The second pic is my PTV clearance.





Real ARP studs this time...



Buddy came by yesterday. An extra set of hands is always welcome.



All torqued down.



Put the rockers on and set lifter preload. That's where we left it yesterday. Need a couple parts to show up to finish it off.

[This message has been edited by fishsticks (edited 06-14-2021).]

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