I found a few threads where members said they removed the front crossmember and everything attached in one piece out of a junkyard Fiero but didn't provide much detail on how.
I'm pretty clear on removing the bolts fromt crossmember to frame, and the steering shaft bolt, and brake lines from calipers to frame although I can't find anything about that in the factory service manual.
Remember this is a junkyard so tools are harder to bring in, all manual tools, etc. What tools would I need besides the correct socket size for the bolts and a screw driver to pry to coupling bolt for the steering column? If one of the bolts spins in the frame, how would I tackle that given that I'm unable to cut into the frame to access the nut or do anything like that? The coolant pipes are under the support rims at the yard so I won't be able to move them out of the way, would the weight of lowering the crossmember just bend them out of the way or do I need to try to use a cutoff wheel or a pry bar to bend them out of the way?
How did you lower the crossmember down to the ground? Did you borrow a cherry picker and lower it on a flat cart? Did you then transport it to the truck with the cherry picker or the cart?
I'm thinking I'd have to rent a U-Haul truck or Home Depot truck for the day..
Also how much does the entire Fiero crossmember with rack, control arms, brakes, (everything but the wheels) weigh?
Also how did the pricing go for the entire assembly? Will they likely charge for each separate item: crossmember, rack, sway bar, hub, control arms, brake calipers, brake rotors? Or put it down for something like front end assembly?
[This message has been edited by reinhart (edited 04-27-2021).]
The bare cross member I can pick up and easily carry with one hand. If I had to haul out an entire cross member I'd take little Johnny's wagon along.
Spoon
------------------ "Kilgore Trout once wrote a short story which was a dialogue between two pieces of yeast. They were discussing the possible purposes of life as they ate sugar and suffocated in their own excrement. Because of their limited intelligence, they never came close to guessing that they were making champagne." - Kurt Vonnegut
I did this a few years ago so I could shorten the bump-stops and then rebuild everything and swap it in on my Fiero in 1 day. There are 10 bolts holding the upper brackets on both sides, then there are 4 bolts holding the crossmember to the frame directly, then 4 bolts that hold the diagonal front braces, and the two bolts that hold the lower arms to the chassis.
I had a friend come and help me- we removed all the bolts except the 4 that hold the frame to the chassis, then loosened them, and finally, while supporting the frame, removed those four bolts and lowered it to the ground.
Make sure that the car is solidly supported....The sound of someone being squished under a falling car is very disconcerting.....
(By the way.....The LAST bolt I removed when swapping the rebuilt subframe into my Fiero SNAPPED off and I spent TWO WEEKS drilling it out and fishing a plate & carriage bolt into the frame)(Arrgggggggggggggggggggggg)
What year? I have drooped both, 88 is slightly different. I have dropped them brake lines calipers and tires still attached. You just pull out the spare tire area, (careful of the brake lines) undo the radiator support, Sway bar mounts, steering rod, then either undo the brake lines from the distribution valve or undo the distribution valve from the booster/mc mount, remove the support bolts holding the brake lines (unless you don't want the lines then id just cut the rubber hoses) If its an 88 you have to pull the coolant tubes. Then undo the cross member bolts. Pre 88 there are 3 on each spring tower and i think 4 on the under side. 88 im only remembering 8 on the bottom? None on the sides something like that. Once you get the spare tire area pulled it is easier to see whats up.
(By the way.....The LAST bolt I removed when swapping the rebuilt subframe into my Fiero SNAPPED off and I spent TWO WEEKS drilling it out and fishing a plate & carriage bolt into the frame)(Arrgggggggggggggggggggggg)
Another great example of the Innate Perversity of Inanimate Objects
I did this a few years ago so I could shorten the bump-stops and then rebuild everything and swap it in on my Fiero in 1 day. There are 10 bolts holding the upper brackets on both sides, then there are 4 bolts holding the crossmember to the frame directly, then 4 bolts that hold the diagonal front braces, and the two bolts that hold the lower arms to the chassis.
I had a friend come and help me- we removed all the bolts except the 4 that hold the frame to the chassis, then loosened them, and finally, while supporting the frame, removed those four bolts and lowered it to the ground.
Make sure that the car is solidly supported....The sound of someone being squished under a falling car is very disconcerting.....
(By the way.....The LAST bolt I removed when swapping the rebuilt subframe into my Fiero SNAPPED off and I spent TWO WEEKS drilling it out and fishing a plate & carriage bolt into the frame)(Arrgggggggggggggggggggggg)
How did you lower it? What did you roll it out on? How did you get it in your truck?
We just used our arms to lower it- not very heavy. As far as carrying it to the truck (Van).....We carried tools, etc back and then together lifted and carried the whole crossmember...Before we carried it I seem to remember removing the springs; My buddy STANDING on the crossmember, and then I un-did the ball-joint and then he eased off the crossmember which released the spring...I did use a chain but by the time the A-Arm is fully swung down there is really no tension left on the spring.
I just weighed some spares I have (This is for a pre-88) Bare cross-member 20-25 lbs, A-Arm SET is 15 lbs each side, each brake caliper (Loaded) approx' 10 lbs, and the springs are between 5-8 lbs each. So a complete crossmember weighs between 75 and 95 lbs (I was using a bathroom scale that is not real accurate especially with light weights like these)
I definitely would remove the brake disc/hub.....They are definitely heavy (I don't have them to weigh)
We just used our arms to lower it- not very heavy. As far as carrying it to the truck (Van).....We carried tools, etc back and then together lifted and carried the whole crossmember...Before we carried it I seem to remember removing the springs; My buddy STANDING on the crossmember, and then I un-did the ball-joint and then he eased off the crossmember which released the spring...I did use a chain but by the time the A-Arm is fully swung down there is really no tension left on the spring.
I just weighed some spares I have (This is for a pre-88) Bare cross-member 20-25 lbs, A-Arm SET is 15 lbs each side, each brake caliper (Loaded) approx' 10 lbs, and the springs are between 5-8 lbs each. So a complete crossmember weighs between 75 and 95 lbs (I was using a bathroom scale that is not real accurate especially with light weights like these)
I definitely would remove the brake disc/hub.....They are definitely heavy (I don't have them to weigh)
Thanks that help a lot. It would also have the steering rack which would add another 20? pound so? for a total of 120ish?
Turns out this yard has no flat carts (I asked yesterday). I highly doubt the shopping carts they have would support this. I don't have anyone to assist otherwise 120 pounds would be manageable. My only option would be to rent a cherry picker which I could use to lower the crossmember and then roll it out or I could maybe use some straps to lower it. The only hiccup I see with the cherry picker is the larger walk way is on the engine side. I do not think the cherry picker would make it between cars to get to the front side anyway. Or it at least woudn't with the crossmember hung on it. I would have to drop the crossmember and get it over to the engine side aisle and then could load it on the cherry picker to wheel it the third of a mile to the front entrance area.
A) Remove brake calipers, B) Remove suspension (A-arms/Spindle/spring) from each side, C) remove Rack & Pinion, D) Support crossmember with jack stands or wood supports, E) Remove last 4 bolts, then allow crossmember to drop to ground, F) Carry each separate part to truck.
Oh, yes, G) Don't drop any of these on your foot (Unless wearing steel-toed shoes)
I don't think you ever mentioned what year you're working on, so I'll assume 84-87.
the whole suspension can be removed whole pretty easily,
Remove rear LCA bolts Disconnect/remove the swaybar(1 bolt per endlink, 4 bolts holding the bar to the frame) unbolt the front braces(2 bolts each) cut the brake hoses unless you want to save them unbolt the rear brake line from the crossmember (1 bolt, about center on the crossmember) disconnect the steering shaft from the rack (1 bolt, you'll want a pickle fork or other method to pry it off) remove the 2 vertical bolts on each side holding the crossmember to the frame rail remover the 2 vertical bolts near each UCA mount that hold the crossmember to the brackets.
unless I'm forgetting something, the crossmember should fall out as you remove those last four.
------------------ "I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."
A) Remove brake calipers, B) Remove suspension (A-arms/Spindle/spring) from each side, C) remove Rack & Pinion, D) Support crossmember with jack stands or wood supports, E) Remove last 4 bolts, then allow crossmember to drop to ground, F) Carry each separate part to truck.
Oh, yes, G) Don't drop any of these on your foot (Unless wearing steel-toed shoes)
Haha well yea there's that. I was trying to get everything together and hopefully be charged less that if I have it all sitting there in separate pieces . And also avoid the extra work of removing everything separately.
If you were closer I would help you with it but (also) I can't be out in the sun because of Lupus. A proper cart would help you a lot- Even if you have to dis-assemble to drop it safely, you could then re-assemble before purchasing it.
If you had some ratchet straps you could probably lower it with those. and by lower it i mean secure it so you dont drop it on your head then just drop it out of the bottom when you are clear. . With a set of spare tires on it the complete unit is probably 140lbs I was able to lift it and put it onto a flatbed garden cart from HF. The 88 i swear is heavier than the pre 88. Still not sure what one you are planning to drop.
if it has tires on it you could probably just roll it out as a full unit. I have rolled a couple around the yard this way.
But the front is the last I drop on my part-outs.. The reason is I don't like crawling under cars. So what i do is once its stripped with just the bits of spaceframe and front suspension I ratchet it vertical into a tree. with the car now at a 90 degree angle on what used to be its front bumper i can access all of the lower suspension bolts with my impact. it then flops out onto the ground and I can roll it away... except that one time it got stuck because one side dropped faster. <--- this is the warning of my story.
cut caliper lines remove sway bar from the car not the suspension remove the 2 front bars unbolt back a arm from frame unbolt the 4 bottom bolts holding the assembly in remove 2 of the 3 bolts on both sides on the k member stick a jack under the k member drivers side remove the drivers side last bolt drop the jack move to the passenger side unbolt the column from inside the car the 11mm on the column place jack to support the whole k member unbolt the last bolt on the passenger side then the whole assembly is out.
a-arms, calipers, hubs, all come out as one unit. you can lift it with the sway bar and carry it the links are still attached to the a-arms you replace the sway bar links when you get new bushings.
This particular yard is a disaster. It's like a big tar pit. The Fiero is in the very farthest part of the yard and the entire way to and from it is coated in tar. There are shopping carts available with front wheels that are literally coming apart. I was just pushing a cart with my tool box a door glass and a brake caliper and it and the front of the cart would not move. I literally had to lift the cart and shimmy it until finally I gave up and pulled the cart backwards the entire way out of the yard. The pavement if you can call it that is riddled with holes and other obstacles. It literally took me 15 minutes to get my cart to the front area from the back and I was winded like I had just run a half marathon. So anything particularly heavy is a big problem here.
The conditions here make it extremely challenging. I have been to many other yards where they had proper flat carts and cherry pickers for free. This yard has pickers but they are rentals by the half hour. Also prices are not reasonable. For instance they want $150 for the crossmember bare. I already shelled out about $120 for two rear calipers and rotors. They charged me $20 for a dog bone.
Originally posted by reinhart: The conditions here make it extremely challenging. I have been to many other yards where they had proper flat carts and cherry pickers for free. This yard has pickers but they are rentals by the half hour. Also prices are not reasonable. For instance they want $150 for the crossmember bare. I already shelled out about $120 for two rear calipers and rotors. They charged me $20 for a dog bone.
I would stop shopping there. $20 for a used dog bone is highway robbery!
The car is a nearly rustless 88. Some of the parts were insanely clean (embarrassing when the junkyard car has a lot of better parts than yours?).
This was my first junkyard visit in 25 years.
What I grabbed:
- Center skeleton: I've never seen a more perfect skeleton even when I had opened one of my own up when it was just 10 years old. This skeleton was absolutely mint. Not a single bolt hole or bulb hole was cracked, brittle or anything. i was in shock! Literally perfect condition. And no one had torn into it before I got to it.
- Center console: Non warped gray: glove box was warped though. There was another Fiero that I grabbed a second console from that I'm going to paint beechwood. Anyone know if the 88 beechwood paint formula listed on the forums here is for the darker or light shade in the 88 beechwood?
- Driver's door hinges: I've never had any luck with finding good driver's hinges. This junkyard door was as smooth as butter. I could literally gently push the door and release it a few inches away and it closed smoothly and quietly with an index finger. It was smoother than two of my Fieros. Should have grabbed the latch bolt but forgot. Can always get one from the passenger door on another Fiero.
- Decklid hinges and torsion rods (I just replaced a torsion rod so it reminded me they do fail occasionally...my first failed rod ever, but now I have two sets of spare white rods). Interestingly it was a coupe with spoiler. I believe it was factory unless the owner added the wing and changed the torsion rods as well. The sticker was unreadable.
- All 4 brake rotors
- Rear brake calipers (did not take the front brakes since I have like 8 calipersonline new calipers). The brakes were in amazing shape. Both rears retracted easily to the stops. Looked factory new as well (not rebuilt). Original brake lines I at first thought were an upgrade kit because they were so clean.
- Entire front suspension and steering rack (rack had some passenger side play...assuming it was the side bushing). I believe the consensus is that all 88's used the same rack? Hopefully it will be the same as my GT racks. (Left the front sway bar...they wanted $30 for it)
- 4 cyl (Fiero Store?) Dog Bone with poly
- Rear marker lights. The fronts were intact in the original picture at the yard but someone apparently wanted a few 10 cent bulbs and broke them both and left them on the ground. Unfortunate because I really need a LF.
- E-Brake handle. Was thinking I should have grabbed the cables. The e-brake was sooo smooth.
- Drivers door glass. Unfortunately it was tinted (really well I might add). I've managed to get about half of the tint off so far but it's really on there good. Has a few scratches from the felt wipes but it's better than one of my Fieros.
- Headlight control module
- Decklid / rear window recall weather seal and clips
The car had some bad undercarriage damage toward the rear. The front was unaffected but the rear had both rear-most suspension trailing arms bent. The adjustable arms on one side looked slightly bent and the long ones looked ok but I didn't want to risk taking any of those esp. given the prices.
I believe this Fiero had to have been garage kept until its untimely crash. I just can't see it having had such clean parts like the skeleton with it being out in the CA sun. Mileage had to have been low as well but it didn't have an instrument cluster left when I got there on its second day in the yard so I don't know the mileage.
So I ended up just removing everything piecemeal. I ended making 4 trips to that yard. There was one wheel with locks I had to forcibly remove. Both upper shock bolts stripped out (per usual). Both had to be cut off which was quite a pain doing in the yard. At home it would have been gone in 5 min with a cut off wheel.
For those that are wondering: Yes a bare 88 Crossmember will fit inside some Fieros.
And to the person that said the crossmember was about 20 pounds...LOL it was super heavy. Weighed when I got home and it was 52 pounds (bare no sway bar or anything). Fully loaded the front end would have been 180 pounds easy. I used those tie down straps that I had bought for a torsion rod change a few weeks ago. They were invaluable in the junkyard. I used them probably 6 times.
The coolant pipes weren't a problem. I was able to easily twist them 45 degrees inward so the middle rotated nearly touching the ground. I didn't remove the rear hoses just the front and they turned rather easy. I would have taken them (I think I could have slid them out from under the rims the yard placed the car on) but the front sections were slightly dented (not the normal rear jack bends).
The steering rack to column bolt was in a bad angle and I stripped it out really good two visits ago. Harbor Freight has a stripped bolt socket set that was amazing. It turned out so easy. The kit is $30 for like 10 sockets bu well worth it. It's only missing a few Fiero sizes (15mm I think or maybe it was 17mm?).
Everything was super expensive for a pick your part. The only thing I caught a break on was I convinced the cashier that the crossmember was a "transmission crossmember" as opposed to a K-frame/Crossmember ($50 vs $150). I ended up shelling out about $600 for everything so obviously I could have bought a parts car for that much but I have nowhere to store it.
Again thanks for all the tips. So I didn't have to rent a truck or a cherry picker but had to break everything down to make it manageable.
[This message has been edited by reinhart (edited 05-07-2021).]
The 88 Crossmember is bigger and beefier than the pre 88. I think i mentioned that. Because you didn't mention year you got mixed feedback. The 88 mounts way different than the pre 88. Also you should have checked the RPO tag on that car because there is a steering rack that has a different ratio. Also could have sent the VIN to 88 database guy....
Other than that good work. Hopefully you left the front calipers in or near the car so if someone needs them.
I was trying to keep a low profile on the car since I knew it was going to take a while to get the parts I wanted.
Is the 84-87 crossmember really that much lighter than the 88? It does look narrower but with the 88 being 52#, I'd think the 84-87 would have to be 35#.
Everything I mentioned is near the car. The fronts and sway bar can be gotten. However, with new loaded fronts available from calipersonline with no core, I don't think the $35 used price is worth it with a rebuild just to get them equal to the new ones but with normal age related wear still.
If someone wants to gamble on the rear suspension they might be able to get a couple non-bent links. Also the rear cradle looked ok but with that damage to the suspension there might be something bent that I didn't notice off hand. I didn't really climb under the rear too far. The rear hubs might be worth grabbing. I didn't have a massive breaker bar to try to remove those and also the axles are still in.
Also the engine is still in the car so that would have to be handled to get the cradle out. The spolier is still there as of Thursday. I was a little suprised at that. It's actually a pretty reasonable price of $30 + whatever hidden fees. i was tempted to take it but I already have a spare and just reselling it would require figuring out how to handle shipping it.
The coolant pipes were fairly straight with just some minor bends/scrapes/dents near the radiator area. The drivers side one was fairly clean whil the passenger side one had some deeper dents. If someone had some badly kinked ones it could be an upgrade.
Didn't really see much else worth taking. Honestly I was surprised no one showed any interest in the car. My first visit was on Day 2 and from then until my last trip about two weeks later, almost nothing other than what I took was gone off the car. I was always worried that between visits someone would come and clean out stuff I had loosened up. Other than the wheels and the cylinder head, and headlight motors, I think nothing was taken by anyone but me.
Regarding the steering rack, what part(s) is different between the coupe and V6? I thought I had read all 88's had the same racks (other than the mythical power rack that had a lower ratio).
[This message has been edited by reinhart (edited 05-08-2021).]
Reinhart, any idea of how many miles were on that 88 and if the engine is any good?
I mentioned the IC was gone one Day 2 so no idea. The engine head was gone I think I mentioned as well. I'll tell you this though that crossmember was absolutely rust free other than a little surface rust on the top side. The bottom of it looked like my low mileage 88. Looks better than both my daily drivers.
I mentioned the IC was gone one Day 2 so no idea. The engine head was gone I think I mentioned as well. I'll tell you this though that crossmember was absolutely rust free other than a little surface rust on the top side. The bottom of it looked like my low mileage 88. Looks better than both my daily drivers.
Well, I guess if one had the VIN one could run a report to get a lower estimate on the mileage. I'm just wondering if maybe there is a good short block sitting there ...
Go check it out. It's the pick your part in Sante Fe Springs. You do know it's a Duke right? I think you can test the bearings with a plastic gauge. The VIN is on their website. Let me know if you run it what the mileage was. Would like to record that for my rack and a few other parts that I grabbed affected by mileage. I was the only person grabbing parts off it for the last two weeks. You'd better hurry though...it's probably got one more week before they crush it and bring in new inventory.
Go check it out. It's the pick your part in Sante Fe Springs. You do know it's a Duke right? I think you can test the bearings with a plastic gauge. The VIN is on their website. Let me know if you run it what the mileage was. Would like to record that for my rack and a few other parts that I grabbed affected by mileage. I was the only person grabbing parts off it for the last two weeks. You'd better hurry though...it's probably got one more week before they crush it and bring in new inventory.
Doh! Somehow I was under the impression it was a six. Oh well.
Not that they changed the price because they knew that.
