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Delete cat, replace with muffler? by ltlfrari
Started on: 04-07-2021 02:14 PM
Replies: 11 (185 views)
Last post by: theogre on 04-08-2021 06:09 PM
ltlfrari
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Report this Post04-07-2021 02:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ltlfrariClick Here to visit ltlfrari's HomePageClick Here to Email ltlfrariSend a Private Message to ltlfrariEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So here's a thought.
I am going to pull my motor soon(ish) to swap the gearbox but while everything is out I was going to delete the cat because a) no emissions now and b) it smells of bad eggs so I suspect the cat is going out anyway (again) but I just had the thought to instead put a muffler where the cat goes and delete the muffler under the trunk, thus freeing up a ton of room plus the need to fight with those bloody springs and just have the tail pipes out the end.

Thoughts?

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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post04-07-2021 02:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I would not add another muffler there. You are ready have one so you will restrict the flow and lose power by adding a second muffler. You can purchase a new head pipe from the Fiero Store that allows replacing the CAT with a non-restrictive straight pipe. Your engine will run better, you will be removing a significant exhaust restriction, a dangerous fire hazard and preventing CAT theft. Of course for "off road use" only.
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[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 04-10-2021).]

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skywurz
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Report this Post04-07-2021 02:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for skywurzClick Here to visit skywurz's HomePageSend a Private Message to skywurzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
When talking about this be aware of

 
quote
Under federal law, catalytic converters may not be removed and replaced with "converter replacement pipes' by any person. The 1990 Clean Air Act Amendments even prohibit private individuals from installing "converter replacement pipes" on their own vehicles. Anyone who installs such pipes would violate section 203(a)(3)(A) and (B) of the Clean Air Act (Act).


Its a $2750 fine.

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ltlfrari
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Report this Post04-07-2021 08:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ltlfrariClick Here to visit ltlfrari's HomePageClick Here to Email ltlfrariSend a Private Message to ltlfrariEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I was actually thinking of removing the original muffler so it's just a straight pipe and putting 'the one and only muffler' where the cat is currently.
But at the risk of a pushing three grand fine, maybe I won't!

I've actually got the FS cat delete pipe but maybe I'll just live with the bad eggs smell.

[This message has been edited by ltlfrari (edited 04-07-2021).]

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Spoon
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Report this Post04-07-2021 08:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SpoonSend a Private Message to SpoonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by skywurz:

When talking about this be aware of


Its a $2750 fine.


Does the law specify any exceptions for off-road vehicles or is that a gray area?

Spoon

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Xenoblast
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Report this Post04-07-2021 09:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for XenoblastClick Here to Email XenoblastSend a Private Message to XenoblastEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ltlfrari:

But at the risk of a pushing three grand fine, maybe I won't!



Dont worry about that fine if your state has no emissions laws. Thats like the feds coming after you for being in possession of marijuana in a state that allows it. its not gonna happen.

My state has no emission, but I replaced it with a flowmaster cat anyway bc i heard that fieros sound bad without it. Also i dont want my car to smell
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OH10fiero
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Report this Post04-08-2021 02:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for OH10fieroClick Here to Email OH10fieroSend a Private Message to OH10fieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Xenoblast:


Dont worry about that fine if your state has no emissions laws. Thats like the feds coming after you for being in possession of marijuana in a state that allows it. its not gonna happen.

My state has no emission, but I replaced it with a flowmaster cat anyway bc i heard that fieros sound bad without it. Also i dont want my car to smell


Any shop that works on a car can also turn you in if they see the converter was removed, not all of them will turn you in but they are supposed to so keep that in mind.
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ltlfrari
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Report this Post04-08-2021 07:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ltlfrariClick Here to visit ltlfrari's HomePageClick Here to Email ltlfrariSend a Private Message to ltlfrariEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by OH10fiero:


Any shop that works on a car can also turn you in if they see the converter was removed, not all of them will turn you in but they are supposed to so keep that in mind.


Well, no inspections here for my car now (over 25 years old) and only I work on it so probably not an issue for me but I think I'l do the 'right' thing and keep the cat. It's not like a drive the car a lot anyway.
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skywurz
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Report this Post04-08-2021 01:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for skywurzClick Here to visit skywurz's HomePageSend a Private Message to skywurzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My point was more of, probably best not to talk about violating federal law on a public forum if i were you i would have prefaced it with "for off highway use" or "for track use" idk i spend some good time on motorcycle forums where CAT delete are more common conversation but just as illegal.
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Blacktree
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Report this Post04-08-2021 01:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Here's something to keep in mind: the catalytic converter is strategically placed where it can warm up fairly quickly (so it can do its job). Mufflers are usually placed near the end of the exhaust, where the exhaust gases are cooler. Putting a muffler where the catalyst usually goes may shorten its life, due to the higher temperatures there.
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theogre
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Report this Post04-08-2021 05:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by skywurz:
My point was more of, probably best not to talk about violating federal law on a public forum if i were you i would have prefaced it with "for off highway use" or "for track use" idk i spend some good time on motorcycle forums where CAT delete are more common conversation but just as illegal.
"Off road" and other claims won't wash w/ EPA and some others. Is a wonder why USDOT/NHTSA and others still let the same BS on LED's and other crap.

Next to impossible the USEPA will go after individuals but States often will.
USEPA and States go after Shops installing or working on cars w/ missing Emission parts. Many State also have a long history slamming Shops for Inspection Fraud too. I've seen several cases in PA and NY that close shops and fined, jailed, or both to people working there.

EPA and others are going after makers and sellers for Any "emissions defeat devices."
So if you bought a "test pipe" thru TFS etc then EPA etc searches their records, you could find the State after you even in a State never had or drop Emission Testing for old cars.

1 of many "recent" stories:
EPA launches crackdown on emissions defeat device makers @ Hemmings
 
quote
In addition, SEMA warns that selling any aftermarket parts with the disclaimers "for off-road use only" or "for racing use only" is "essentially meaningless... if the part can be installed on a highway vehicle."
Mangaflow is just one that got caught in that story selling Cat Delete exhausts.

MSM mostly drop this item from news cycles and even many "Trade Rags" stopped covering this but very likely EPA isn't slowing down.

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theogre
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Report this Post04-08-2021 06:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Blacktree:
Here's something to keep in mind: the catalytic converter is strategically placed where it can warm up fairly quickly (so it can do its job). Mufflers are usually placed near the end of the exhaust, where the exhaust gases are cooler. Putting a muffler where the catalyst usually goes may shorten its life, due to the higher temperatures there.
There's that but most Mufflers are 2x to Many times the Size of most Cat and often Won't Fit in same spot.

In Fiero alone, OE muffler uses 2+ the space that even the "pebble bed" cat for L4 does and 3x or 4x the monolithic cat's.
The Case isn't insulated like Cat cases either and huge surface area will "light up" the starter and more w/ IR light heating them to death.
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