Originally posted by 60Greyhound: I find these threads amusing to read... basically LED lights are an improvement when fitted and aimed correctly they will be more reliable and give better light. Most manufacturers are now fitting LEDs as standard for that reason. In my experience as long as they are fitted and aimed correctly Police and vehicle testers will never issue warnings for them, as they realise they are a 'modern upgrade' for a 30 year old vehicle, making it safer to drive. Interesting the resistance to Lighting changes does not carry over to engine/brake upgrades which are actively encouraged? Some people are just very resistant to change, and modernisation. Which is fine if you want a concours/original car... Me, I'm all for it, modern brakes, modern lights, modern engine... hell my car isn't even running fuses/relays anymore as I'm installing a PDM module instead!
If you Ignore MOT Inspection has new rules started in 2019 that have More ways to Fail you partly because more fools put Illegal "upgrades"on a car and cause problems that get the "Press" and others attention like: Illegal HID conversion kits explained - Auto Express http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/
Now Many just switch to LED in HL shells made for Halogen lamps and have same problems.
Can find many others for HID and LED "upgrades" problems from News outlets and more that only skims the surface. Web search terms like: hid headlights illegal led headlights illegal are led headlights legal are led headlights legal in ______________
That's skipping any HL making other that amber and white light is Illegal in some places... Bright, blinding headlights: Are they legal? WLWT5 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gx1v_KtO4Y0
For Sealed Beam, Very Few LED are legal in other countries too. Truck-lite and some few others have ECE lights for UK and EU. Truck-lite 27490C ECE Right Hand Side 27491C ECE Left Hand Side but I think has same pic for both showing ---► below the code string. Think UK should be ◄--- Hela may make LED thru Truck Parts for "H6054 replacements" but no longer list H4 Shells to use w/ H4 Halogen bulbs. Others no longer makes Sealed Beam HL's like Phillips dropped most to all ~ 10 years ago.
Many Fiero Brake "Upgrade" have big problems to Illegal as well because for 1 often eliminates the parking brake. Worse, TFS "makes" Parts of 1 crap infamous "GA upgrade" to sell to people w/o a clue and laugh all the way to the bank. Highlights See my Cave, Brake Upgrade
[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 02-20-2021).]
Originally posted by theogre: If you Ignore MOT Inspection has new rules started in 2019 that have More ways to Fail you partly because more fools put Illegal "upgrades"on a car and cause problems that get the "Press" and others attention like: Illegal HID conversion kits explained - Auto Express http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/
Now Many just switch to LED in HL shells made for Halogen lamps and have same problems.
Can find many others for HID and LED "upgrades" problems from News outlets and more that only skims the surface. Web search terms like: hid headlights illegal led headlights illegal are led headlights legal are led headlights legal in ______________
That's skipping any HL making other that amber and white light is Illegal in some places... Bright, blinding headlights: Are they legal? WLWT5 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gx1v_KtO4Y0
For Sealed Beam, Very Few LED are legal in other countries too. Truck-lite and some few others have ECE lights for UK and EU. Truck-lite 27490C ECE Right Hand Side 27491C ECE Left Hand Side but I think has same pic for both showing ---► below the code string. Think UK should be ◄--- Hela may make LED thru Truck Parts for "H6054 replacements" but no longer list H4 Shells to use w/ H4 Halogen bulbs. Others longer makes Sealed Beam HL's like Phillips dropped most to all ~ 10 years ago.
Many Fiero Brake "Upgrade" have big problems to Illegal as well because for 1 often eliminates the parking brake. Worse, TFS "makes" Parts of 1 crap infamous "GA upgrade" to sell to people w/o a clue and laugh all the way to the bank. Highlights See my Cave, Brake Upgrade
Thanks for all the input. I know this subject is a long time running, but sense the last time I looked into head light upgrades, I assume some advances have been made. So my question is what lamps would you install in your personal car that are legal? I do not want to blind on coming traffic OR get a ticket. So a DOT approved lamp that is legal (at least in CA). BUT my old school lights are like holding candles in my hands compared to the lights that are in new cars now days. Thanks.
[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 02-19-2021).]
But the video is explaining replacing "bulbs" and that the lens isn't designed for them.
In the Fiero, there is no headlamp lens. The headlights are an entire unit with lens in all. So the headlights that are similar to sealed halogens, but are LED's, shouldn't they be designed with the lens in mind for street use?
That post w/ autoexpress video is specifically to address 60Greyhound in UK but likely applies to others (but most have no clue what MOT is. Basically Is similar to US state inspection w/ a lot more and stricter rules.)
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Originally posted by Rickady88GT: Thanks for all the input. I know this subject is a long time running, but sense the last time I looked into head light upgrades, I assume some advances have been made. So my question is what lamps would you install in your personal car that are legal? I do not want to blind on coming traffic OR get a ticket. So a DOT approved lamp that is legal (at least in CA). BUT my old school lights are like holding candles in my hands compared to the lights that are in new cars now days. Thanks.
For Fiero and many others "I assume some advances have been made" is good way to get Conned unless your willing to Pay and even then might find the new "Advancements" are just popular Fads that Ebay Amzn and others love to rip you off.
One famous brand made a HID kit to replace H6054 types but was ~ $900 15+ years ago then got in a fight w/ NHTSA too. Why? Back then (in late 90 to LED took the Hype train.) all the Hype was trying to "upgrade" to HID before many found HID had many problems even for cars came w/ them from the factory. Go search the archives in many and see same threads just w/ HID instead of LED. That brand is only HID upgrade that was "DOT Legal" and paid High $ for it. Doubt many buy that before discontinued.
Some New Cars w/ LED anything have problems too including HL. When They Die... Expect a very big Bill if not covered under Warranty. Plus New cars and truck have DOT Legal HL but IIHS found many do not perform and that even for high $ models. https://www.iihs.org/topics/headlights and others.
Halogen "Dim" is Problems w/ wiring and aiming. Might be old bulbs but often not for most people. But Many have SilverStar and others and draw more power make wiring problems worse and often won't last on top of that. (Plus Osram and others have been sued for False Ads etc.) See my Cave, Headlights
Above Cheap LED may give you better light but many claim any "upgrade" better is also have wiring problems, didn't fix them and wiring will fail. Plus G101 is ground for Rad Fan too and many fry fan relay. So check/fix HL wiring parts covered in cave before buying anything.
If you want LED... the only cheap one is above right now. Others are $250 to $300 pair to buy Trunk-lite GE and other brands and only have a Warranty 1 - 3 years.
[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 02-20-2021).]
Originally posted by Wichita: But the video is explaining replacing "bulbs" and that the lens isn't designed for them.
In the Fiero, there is no headlamp lens. The headlights are an entire unit with lens in all. So the headlights that are similar to sealed halogens, but are LED's, shouldn't they be designed with the lens in mind for street use?
Video applies to All Halogen shells including "upgrade" Sealed Beam HL. For all take H6054 and related... Many fools put H4 shells and Hot Bulbs in US Vehicles that are Illegal to start with... Some put HB2 shells and 9003 Halogen that are DOT Legal...
But...
Then they put HID and now LED "lamps" in H4 HB2 and others and shells can't focus them. Every Fraction of a Millimeter the HID or LED "bulbs" move the light, more and more Out of Focus. Worse, LED and HID uses 2 "Lamps" that's way different thing to focus right and causes huge glare and other problems. Typical LED used in many Dual Beam shells including H4 and HB2 taken apart... Same "bulb" have different bases to fit whatever shell. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CX_uFs5vKc0
You Can Get Legal LED "bulbs" to replace H6054 etc but Most Cost > $250 a pair. Only One so far is < $100 a pair and linked at amzn above but many seems to have them. Web Search on DOT string/code to find same poorly made ad at many sites.
[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 02-20-2021).]
Despite all that’s being said, I love my LED’s on my 85 GT. Had them for a year now and have never had anyone flash their high beams on me, And yes, I carefully aimed them and yes mine are DOT marked. There was one negative: I really had to modify the headlight buckets as the back of the led housings have cooling fins which interfered with the steel buckets. Several hours of moto-tooling and some touch up painting of the buckets black and voila.
I find this conversation interesting. Obviously there are some places where these equipment issues are strictly enforced, band other places where nearly no equipment is even checked unless said equipment Causes an obvious issue. It would be interesting to see where everyone commenting is located.
Originally posted by Daryl M: I find this conversation interesting. Obviously there are some places where these equipment issues are strictly enforced, band other places where nearly no equipment is even checked unless said equipment Causes an obvious issue. It would be interesting to see where everyone commenting is located.
Doesn't matter where people lives... Depending on region, most drive in other Towns, Counties, States, even different Countries.
Local Police often ignore problems but Nearly All Police can or will Stop you for Any Light Problems not just HL problems. Anyone claiming whatever "Legal" at "home" is Legal elsewhere are only fooling themselves or lying to others.
State and other agencies can and do use speeding, light problems, and more Primary Offense reasons to Stop Out of State Drivers then "Go Finishing" looking for Drugs etc. Southern State Tags driving North on I95 etc get stopped in VA, MD, NJ, DE and PA for any Primary Offense in that state. Live in one state and work in another next to home state can still get stopped in the work state more often like 1 guy I know got stop 2x in work state for light problems for installing a cutout ram sticker over taillights. While he whined,,, others hind laughing because boss was LEO going a "Picard Facepalm." Many get stopped for having Fog/Drivers lights on w/o meeting the rest of rules to use them. Many get stopped for having "Rally lights" on front or on a "roll bar" and other Aux light On or w/o covers driving on the street. Many get stopped for having other light on, like lights under the car, when parked and forget to turn them off before pulling out of McD etc.
Related issue is Studded Tires. Stud Rules change by State including Start and End Dates where they allow them at all. Example: Is a small stretch of I90 when goes between NY, OH thru PA and PA would Stop every OH and NY drivers w/ Studs because PA didn't have same start/end dates or was Banned. Many would drive from say Binghamton NY into PA w/ Studs got stopped too. PA state and towns got Many Thousands of $ per year just for Studded Tires on Out of State cars. Much more when they find Big Tickets items or arrest you for whatever.
Many drive across Northern Boarder can get stopped by Police in either country plus US and CA Customs.
That's just in the US... Others places can be much harder just to Pass Inspections. Canada has some different rules/laws in different Provinces w/ some inspections are sticker then others sim to US states. Think BC Gov now shows inspectors to look for ECE mark on HL but can't find link now. Meanwhile a "quick" overview of a car Passing UK MOT... (Is ~ 1 hour to watch a real passing MOT) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBORGEXmlYU But read the MOT Rules updated in 2019... @ https://mtta.org.uk/mot-ins...-passenger-vehicles/ In Short, Light Rules Now says...
quote
Existing halogen headlamp units should not be converted to be used with HID bulbs. If such a conversion has been done, you must fail the headlamp.
From 4. Lamps, reflectors and electrical equipment - MOT inspection manual: cars and passenger vehicles - 4.1.4. Compliance with requirements Other parts of light rule are made to block LED and other HL "upgrades"...
quote
Defect -- Category (a) Headlamp emitted colour, position or intensity not in accordance with the requirements -- Major (b) Product on the lens or light source which obviously reduces light intensity or changes emitted colour to other than white or yellow -- Major (c) Light source and lamp not compatible -- Major (d) Mandatory headlamps, intended to be a matched pair, are not the same shape, size or colour -- Major
Major = Fail and often Do Not Drive until fixed and Cops will see a Failing MOT when they "run a Tag."
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Daryl M: I find this conversation interesting. Obviously there are some places where these equipment issues are strictly enforced, band other places where nearly no equipment is even checked unless said equipment Causes an obvious issue. It would be interesting to see where everyone commenting is located.
Doesn't matter where people lives... Depending on region, most drive in other Towns, Counties, States, even different Countries.
Local Police often ignore problems but Nearly All Police can or will Stop you for Any Light Problems not just HL problems. Anyone claiming whatever "Legal" at "home" is Legal elsewhere are only fooling themselves or lying to others.
State and other agencies can and do use speeding, light problems, and more Primary Offense reasons to Stop Out of State Drivers then "Go Finishing" looking for Drugs etc. Southern State Tags driving North on I95 etc get stopped in VA, MD, NJ, DE and PA for any Primary Offense in that state. Live in one state and work in another next to home state can still get stopped in the work state more often like 1 guy I know got stop 2x in work state for light problems for installing a cutout ram sticker over taillights. While he whined,,, others hind laughing because boss was LEO going a "Picard Facepalm." Many get stopped for having Fog/Drivers lights on w/o meeting the rest of rules to use them. Many get stopped for having "Rally lights" on front or on a "roll bar" and other Aux light On or w/o covers driving on the street. Many get stopped for having other light on, like lights under the car, when parked and forget to turn them off before pulling out of McD etc.
Related issue is Studded Tires. Stud Rules change by State including Start and End Dates where they allow them at all. Example: Is a small stretch of I90 when goes between NY, OH thru PA and PA would Stop every OH and NY drivers w/ Studs because PA didn't have same start/end dates or was Banned. Many would drive from say Binghamton NY into PA w/ Studs got stopped too. PA state and towns got Many Thousands of $ per year just for Studded Tires on Out of State cars. Much more when they find Big Tickets items or arrest you for whatever.
Many drive across Northern Boarder can get stopped by Police in either country plus US and CA Customs.
That's just in the US... Others places can be much harder just to Pass Inspections. Canada has some different rules/laws in different Provinces w/ some inspections are sticker then others sim to US states. Think BC Gov now shows inspectors to look for ECE mark on HL but can't find link now. Meanwhile a "quick" overview of a car Passing UK MOT... (Is ~ 1 hour to watch a real passing MOT) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBORGEXmlYU But read the MOT Rules updated in 2019... @ https://mtta.org.uk/mot-ins...-passenger-vehicles/ In Short, Light Rules Now says...
quote
Existing halogen headlamp units should not be converted to be used with HID bulbs. If such a conversion has been done, you must fail the headlamp.
From 4. Lamps, reflectors and electrical equipment - MOT inspection manual: cars and passenger vehicles - 4.1.4. Compliance with requirements Other parts of light rule are made to block LED and other HL "upgrades"...
quote
Defect -- Category (a) Headlamp emitted colour, position or intensity not in accordance with the requirements -- Major (b) Product on the lens or light source which obviously reduces light intensity or changes emitted colour to other than white or yellow -- Major (c) Light source and lamp not compatible -- Major (d) Mandatory headlamps, intended to be a matched pair, are not the same shape, size or colour -- Major
Major = Fail and often Do Not Drive until fixed and Cops will see a Failing MOT when they "run a Tag." [/QUOTE]
I'm sure all you say is true, but in the western (not coastal) states these issues are largely not a big deal. I think there is more of an independent anti-government attitue that is not seen as much in the East or Canada. Just my take.
At the end of the day its an individual choice, your car. Now I now the argument can be had that lights blinding other cars but to be honest there are some ridiculous bright lights coming out of the factory on the newer vehicles. In all my years of driving I have never been pulled over for the illegal use of bulbs. Only thing remotely close was a cop pulling me over thinking I had my brights on and he just wanted to warn me before hitting the highway. Of all the things we do to our cars the LED light debate seems to bring up the most "illegal" talk. Cat delete, EGR delete, to loud of mufflers etc...these do not even get the same rhetoric, its ridiculous in my opinion.
At the end of the day its an individual choice, your car. Now I now the argument can be had that lights blinding other cars but to be honest there are some ridiculous bright lights coming out of the factory on the newer vehicles. In all my years of driving I have never been pulled over for the illegal use of bulbs. Only thing remotely close was a cop pulling me over thinking I had my brights on and he just wanted to warn me before hitting the highway. Of all the things we do to our cars the LED light debate seems to bring up the most "illegal" talk. Cat delete, EGR delete, to loud of mufflers etc...these do not even get the same rhetoric, its ridiculous in my opinion.
I have to agree about the ridiculous part. I realize many in the east don't have this issue, but in the west we have "open range". That means that cattle are allowed to wander at will. If you hit one of these animals, you pay up to 3 times their value to the owner and are responsible for fixing your own car. I'd rather be able to see that black cow at night. If I hit one in a Fiero, I'd probably be dead.
Originally posted by Daryl M: I'm sure all you say is true, but in the western (not coastal) states these issues are largely not a big deal. I think there is more of an independent anti-government attitue that is not seen as much in the East or Canada. Just my take.
quote
Originally posted by Spadesluck: At the end of the day its an individual choice, your car. Now I now the argument can be had that lights blinding other cars but to be honest there are some ridiculous bright lights coming out of the factory on the newer vehicles. In all my years of driving I have never been pulled over for the illegal use of bulbs. Only thing remotely close was a cop pulling me over thinking I had my brights on and he just wanted to warn me before hitting the highway. Of all the things we do to our cars the LED light debate seems to bring up the most "illegal" talk. Cat delete, EGR delete, to loud of mufflers etc...these do not even get the same rhetoric, its ridiculous in my opinion.
Again, Your local police often ignore many problems on local cars... Even "State Police" often will ignore local cars often w/ major problems.
Delete Emissions parts are covered here and many other places and often say is illegal too. This may get "less press" only because won't cause a wreck. Over Bright HL on "new" cars often have "upgrades" installed by owners or have other problems. I rarely see problems Cars w/ Factory Installed HID or LED because are aimed right unless vehicle is uneven loaded like crap in trunk, overloaded, etc. Some new cars have self-leveling HL for this reason but they often only help w/in set of conditions or they break.
In AZ etc many often won't drive state to state or only to next state. In other places, like many areas East of Mississippi, you can easily drive thru several states in a few minutes to a few hours. Is common to drive DC to NYC or even to Boston in a day and have a target on your back most or all of the way depending on your tag. Driving just Philly to NYC has you driving in many jurisdictions, more so if you don't use limited access roads.
Example: You have guns and think will travel w/ them w/ AZ tags to hunt in Maine and drive on I95 and NJTP from DC... DC bans most guns so visiting si.edu like air & space w/ your car can be bad. (Park&Ride to take WMATA train can have problems too depending where you park outside of DC.) NJ have Gun and Ammo bans. If you get to NYC... NYC has gun bans Worse then NYS.
If you use PA TP, will likely still go thru NJ and NYC. Avoid NJ and NYC is possible but NYS and others now bans a lot of guns, mag > 7 rounds, etc.
The Point... You better hope that any cops in those areas only write you for an Equipment Violation for crap HL or other light problems and doesn't search your car. NJ searches you/car and find Just One Hollow Point round then go to jail. HP is Banned in NJ and That alone is a Felony even w/o a gun. CCW in your state? NJ and many others doesn't recognize them and will go to jail if carrying. But Have Guns/Ammo in the Trunk w/ more locks... Beside Bans of some gun types and just what types depend on state or worse... Just have a ban gun or other parts can be very bad. Many areas have "Gun Free School Zones" and Any Gun in them even multi-locked in the trunk then driver and everyone else in the car can get arrested.
Originally posted by dremu: And the Coast Guard will pull you over for LED fire extinguishers. Especially the "upgrade" ones from the Fiero Store.
-- A
Funny. Not. If you own or operate a boat requiring to have Fire Extinguishers and Coast Guard etc inspects it finding them missing or not USCG approved then you can have big problems and large fines. Most FE are Not USCG Certified. Only a fraction of units make by most companies are made for boats or airplanes.
USCG, Harbor Patrol and others can board any boat and search for nearly any reason. Way easier then cops stopping most cars. Most places also extend DUI to boat operation. A lot of fools "go boating," get drunk doing so and get arrested. Worse legal problems and many News Press if they cause a wreck DUI.
During last year, a lot of boats sold to morons w/o a clue everywhere for a "safe" thing to do. No sign it will stop this year except can't find any in many places. Just a few weeks ago, Friend even sold a small boat still need work after big storm flooded it w/ rain water sitting on a trailer. (Drain plug out but rain too fast plus loose crap block the drain.)
and voila. 
