I've got an 87 GT that I'm making my own. One of the ways is by installing power steering. I've run into a spot where I need advice, which is why I'm reaching out to the community.
I've purchased the hydraulic Power Steering kit (bracket and tie-rod ends) from WCF as well as a steering rack for an F-Body ('00 Camaro) from RockAuto.
I followed the instructions provided by WCF; I removed the mounting points of the new rack, installed the tie-rod ends and then I cut out the mounting point on the driver's side of the sub frame.
As I am piecing everything together, it doesn't seem to fit quite right; the knuckle just above the input shaft on the rack looks as if it'd rub on the coolant line. AND, when I have everything connected up and the rack bolted into place, the steering column doesn't line back up with the orignial bracket under the dash.
I would think that I should be able twist the steering column around for the knuckle to flex correctly and that the entire rack could "rotate" forward in position to help pull the steering column back into place. BUT, none of that seems to be possible.
Contact Joe on here. Here is a quote from another thread:
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:
I used the WCF kit for a hydraulic Camaro rack on an 86. After a lot of modification it worked out well. Definitely not a bolt-in adapter, but easier than designing one myself. No input on the electric kit.
Joe confirmed that additional modifications are needed; you must cut out a portion of the "portal" where the steering column passes through the front bulkhead in the footbox of the cabin. I appreciate his advice!
He also mentioned that the rack isn't quite properly centered on the subframe and will need adjusting. I think I'll account for that as I adjust the tie-rod ends to align it.
I'm going to attach a couple of "before" pictures to show what I'm seeing as it relates to the issue of clearance around the coolant pipe.
Hopefully, I'll be able to widen that opening Joe mentioned and I then can show you how much it improves.
That's a thought. I went back to my order receipt and confirmed that I ordered the correct one. Now, as to whether or not they sent my the right part...
I would venture a guess that the "kit" requires some creativity and effort on the part of the installer.
I've had some experience with Chris @ WCF, finding that there is more variation in Fieros than Chris' kits can easily cope with. Consider your purchase more an incomplete pile of parts to which you must add more parts AND knowledge, and you'll be off to a good start.
The boot needed extensive modification, involving a knife and gorilla tape....
It needs to be water tight to protect the rack input shaft and to prevent air, water and critter intrusion into the cabin.
That's what I was thinking; it needs to remain sealed-up.
It's secured with two small sheet metal screws, shouldn't be hard to rotate it or pivot it enough to accommodate and then, find a way to seal the exposed side.
I ordered from RockAuto: It's made by VISION-OE, part Number 103-0160
I was looking at that one on the BBB site who rebuilds them. I think that is whats in my car, just wanted be 100% before I tore into it and tie up my garage.
Okay, SO! ...I sat on this project for the better part of a year, now. I just didn't want to cut into the firewall to make this work and was hoping that some other solution would present it self. ...It did not...
I pulled the three screws that held the boot into place and pulled it into the cabin and set it aside.
The alignment of the steering column is soooo far off to connect to the power steering rack. There needs to be additional clearance through the portal in the firewall high and to the outside.
I then took a die grinder and started carving out the edge of the portal about a quarter of an inch.
IT'S STILL NOT QUITE ENOUGH.
I think it'll require removal of material that starts cutting into the frame. ....This makes me nervous.
So, I'm resurrecting this thread to beg those that have been here to help guide me to get this friggin' set up installed.
Here are a couple of pictures:
Top down, from the side and circled the area where I've removed material
Perhaps I can help. Some years ago I installed a 2000 Pontiac Trans Am quick ratio rack in my 86 SE. I also had issues with the knuckle getting close to the frame. I used the Fiero steering column. My kit was also from WCF. PM me and I'll go over how I solved the problem without butchering the frame. Meanwhile I'll dig up some of my pics.
Spoon
------------------ "Kilgore Trout once wrote a short story which was a dialogue between two pieces of yeast. They were discussing the possible purposes of life as they ate sugar and suffocated in their own excrement. Because of their limited intelligence, they never came close to guessing that they were making champagne." - Kurt Vonnegut
Wasn't FieroGuru, or someone reputable like him, engineering a PS solution? I don't seem to have it bookmarked but I swear someone was working on a quality unit.
Wasn't FieroGuru, or someone reputable like him, engineering a PS solution? I don't seem to have it bookmarked but I swear someone was working on a quality unit.
It wouldn't surprise me that FieroGuru had something in the works.
But, the WCF kit that I have is soooo close, I just feel that I'm not doing something right.
I ordered a rack to fit a 2000 model year. By the sounds of it, there is a part change from the '99 to '00 model year and the two racks are different. The 1999 model year rack has less rake in the angle of the steering input shaft.
I was interested in possibly going to PS- more for the faster ratio....But I have my battery mounted up front and the F-body racks have the pipes sticking up which interferes with the battery box- I read of a guy using a C4 Vette rack which has the pipes mounted differently and clears the battery box. But noone makes a kit or supplies directions. It would be nice if someone actually came up with a kit/directions for using the C4 racks....
Slabsufer, I didn't see a way to post pics from private message so here goes.
Below pic shows gear angle of 93-97 F-Rack (virtually a bulls eye) for the steering column.
Below pic is my 2000 F-Rack - notice wide angle.
Image of 2000 F-Rack
Obvious the 93-97 should of been my choice but I thought newer would serve better. I did not have to cut into the frame but it is real close and there was no binding at the joint when turning. Disregard the cooler location, that was a temporary location. Also the F rack turning radius is a bit wider. The limiting factor is in the rack and not at the steering knuckles like the factory rack uses.
"F" racks in 6 cyl's have standard ratio steering and v8's are faster and I believe the Ram-Air's have the quick ratio. I have the quick and it was definitely noticeable and made up for some of the turning radius issue. If I had to do the install over again I'd put away the butcher knives and go for the 93-97 racks. I did my conversion around 2012 and used the 2000 Toyota MR2 hydro-electric pump.
Spoon
------------------ "Kilgore Trout once wrote a short story which was a dialogue between two pieces of yeast. They were discussing the possible purposes of life as they ate sugar and suffocated in their own excrement. Because of their limited intelligence, they never came close to guessing that they were making champagne." - Kurt Vonnegut
The top pic and bottom pic really do a good job of showing the difference.
It really sounds like I simply bought a rack from the wrong model year. I'm ready to be past this issue and move on to other projects for the car. So, I'll likely find a rack from a '96 or '97 F-body.
I am curious though, you said that you DID use the other rack and didn't have to cut the frame. Is my '87 that much different? Just curious.
Slabsufer, I don't believe the tolerance could of been off that much by the factory. On the other hand maybe the kit was off.
This is the kit like I received.
This pic shows rack alignment pin welded to plate. If this pin position is off, your rack will not position correctly.
Did you receive and use the 2 threaded adapters for the rack? I know its not related to your problem but they must be used.
Spoon
------------------ "Kilgore Trout once wrote a short story which was a dialogue between two pieces of yeast. They were discussing the possible purposes of life as they ate sugar and suffocated in their own excrement. Because of their limited intelligence, they never came close to guessing that they were making champagne." - Kurt Vonnegut
Thanks, Spoon. I was already thinking about what I would need to transfer over to the older year model rack. Those adapters came to mind.
By the way, I'm a little disappointed in the community that no one has chimmed in with a comment about what a nice rack you have! Hahahaha
As far as the kit and alignment, EVERYTHING just fell into place: the holes lined up, the clamps were placed right and that alignment pin seemed just right, as well. The glaring problem I had was how far the output pointed away from where it needed to go.
The top pic and bottom pic really do a good job of showing the difference.
It really sounds like I simply bought a rack from the wrong model year. I'm ready to be past this issue and move on to other projects for the car. So, I'll likely find a rack from a '96 or '97 F-body.
I am curious though, you said that you DID use the other rack and didn't have to cut the frame. Is my '87 that much different? Just curious.
I've been following this topic in anticipation of adding power steering to my '88 GT. I'm still gathering information and have yet to fit anything, but here is a picture of an actual '88 Fiero power steering rack:
Angle of the input shaft to the rack is close to 90 degrees.
Okay guys, I'm heading to the shop this morning to check the positioning of my ps rack. My van is on the lift waiting for transmission parts so I'm going to have to use a floor jack and mirrors to look up under the Fiero at that positioning. I think I may have a solution for more clearance.
Spoon
------------------ "Kilgore Trout once wrote a short story which was a dialogue between two pieces of yeast. They were discussing the possible purposes of life as they ate sugar and suffocated in their own excrement. Because of their limited intelligence, they never came close to guessing that they were making champagne." - Kurt Vonnegut
Okay Slabsurfer I'm back. You may want to kick yourself after reading this post. As soon as I crawled under my Fiero and looked at the rack I remembered what I did and why. Here's the pic I took. Notice that notch I dremmeled into the rib on my rack.
That allowed me to rotate the rack on the mounting plate which in turn repositioned the steering gear input shaft enough to clear the frame. Notice it didn't take much movement. Other words the rib was in the way. The rack may not be a perfect core now but it may pass if I need to replace it. For obvious reasons I'm not suggesting that anyone cut into their power steering rack.
Your thoughts,
Spoon
------------------ "Kilgore Trout once wrote a short story which was a dialogue between two pieces of yeast. They were discussing the possible purposes of life as they ate sugar and suffocated in their own excrement. Because of their limited intelligence, they never came close to guessing that they were making champagne." - Kurt Vonnegut
I've been following this topic in anticipation of adding power steering to my '88 GT. I'm still gathering information and have yet to fit anything, but here is a picture of an actual '88 Fiero power steering rack:
Angle of the input shaft to the rack is close to 90 degrees.
quote
Below pic shows gear angle of 93-97 F-Rack (virtually a bulls eye) for the steering column.
It looks like you shifted the rack over towards the passenger side by about a quarter inch?
That, and rotated the assembly forward a bit?
I'll have to see what that looks like in my hands.
I didn't shift it. There's a shadow across that rack and my camera was at a bad angle. Plus the u-strap on the mounting plate (passenger side) sits in a groove cast into the rack and prevents any left to right movement in addition to the alignment peg. Those 2 double threaded extenders are important and should be used to bring the steering geometry back to factory specs like the original rack.
It's been a while since I did my conversion but I recall 2.5 turns lock to lock. Only took a few miles of winding road to get use to it. Lane changing on the freeway is new experience and it doesn't feel squirrely or dangerous to me. Externally the standard ratio rack appears to look the same as the quick. Hope it aligns up for you.
Spoon
------------------ "Kilgore Trout once wrote a short story which was a dialogue between two pieces of yeast. They were discussing the possible purposes of life as they ate sugar and suffocated in their own excrement. Because of their limited intelligence, they never came close to guessing that they were making champagne." - Kurt Vonnegut
I didn't shift it. There's a shadow across that rack and my camera was at a bad angle. Plus the u-strap on the mounting plate (passenger side) sits in a groove cast into the rack and prevents any left to right movement in addition to the alignment peg. Those 2 double threaded extenders are important and should be used to bring the steering geometry back to factory specs like the original rack.
It's been a while since I did my conversion but I recall 2.5 turns lock to lock. Only took a few miles of winding road to get use to it. Lane changing on the freeway is new experience and it doesn't feel squirrely or dangerous to me. Externally the standard ratio rack appears to look the same as the quick. Hope it aligns up for you.
Spoon
Got under the car tonight to wrestle with rack. I noticed that as I rotated the rack forward, the bottom of the output comes into conflict with the custom bracket.
Good move. Bite the bullet and get the older rack. Come back and let us know how you made out.
Spoon
------------------ "Kilgore Trout once wrote a short story which was a dialogue between two pieces of yeast. They were discussing the possible purposes of life as they ate sugar and suffocated in their own excrement. Because of their limited intelligence, they never came close to guessing that they were making champagne." - Kurt Vonnegut
I ran into the exact same problem. I bought the power steering rack, year 2000 built up from West Coast along with their mounting rack. I spend the better part of the afternoon trying to get this to line up by rotating and even cut a small amount from the mounting bracket supplied. It would not work well.
Went out and bought a '95 steering rack, moved everything over, yes use heat to remove adapter threads. You may need to double up on some nuts on the 14 mm x 1.5 mm thread to break the 18 mm x 1.5 mm thread portion out of the rack, especially if you used red loctite. I had to recut the threads on both sides to clean up the loctite on the threads.
Then, the new rack bolted up easily, no angle issues, no rubbing on the cooling pipe.
I highly recommend not using the 2000 steering rack and use the 1995 rack, angle of double D shaft is much better for fitment.
------------------ "Kilgore Trout once wrote a short story which was a dialogue between two pieces of yeast. They were discussing the possible purposes of life as they ate sugar and suffocated in their own excrement. Because of their limited intelligence, they never came close to guessing that they were making champagne." - Kurt Vonnegut
