So the tires on the GT I bought this past week are 8 years old and showing all the warning signs. I'm committed to the stock wheels because I love the way they look and the car is a low mileage (57k) relatively unmolested example. Only real upgrades are a performance clutch kit, short throw shifter, and KYB suspension. Pretty much I've narrowed it to 2 choices:
Cooper CS5 Ultra Touring (retaining stock sizing) at $90/tire
Toyo Proxes R888R (would have to move to 235/50s for the rear and 225/50s for the front, both are about 3.5% smaller than stock diameter) at about $170/tire
I'm not too worried about the cost difference, and I'm not going to drive when there is any potential for snow. The Coopers are a "performance" all-season while the Toyos are a DOT rated track tire. My main question is, are the Toyos overkill? Does the car need substantially more power and braking ability to really take advantage of them? I suppose the cornering would still benefit without modification.
I guess I don't see a reason for the extra cost and somewhat compromised performance in the rain and cooler weather if the car is not really benefitting otherwise. Thanks for the input!
I have those Cooper CS5s on my daily driver 2006 Subaru Impreza for a few years now and they have been very good to me in all conditions. When my Firestones on my 88 wear out I would put them on my Fiero with no hesitation.
------------------ "Discord" Red 1988 GT under restoration!
Using a 50 series tire on stock wheels will make the speedo inaccurate, make the car run higher rpm on the highway, and be a harsher ride. For normal street use, the cheap tires will make you happier. If you like drag racing at stop lights.....you will win more races with the expensive tires.
[This message has been edited by Gall757 (edited 04-11-2020).]
Hello Modesto, I have 2 stock '88 GTs and went with the Coopers but for the rear I upsized to 225 from the 215s. I like a bit of extra rear grip. Happy with the Coopers for a year now. I think the Toyo's are overkill. JMHO...Enjoy the '88
Wow, those are polar opposites. You're comparing an all-season tire to a "track only" tire. Do you race it... like, on a race track? If not, then the Toyos will be a waste of money. IMO you'd be better off with some high-performance summer tires.
Regarding tire sizing: A tire with good tread compound and a well-engineered tread pattern in the stock tire size will out-perform a crappy tire that's wider. Just a thought.
I have been using General Tires for a long time; Less expensive, well made tires that get good reviews and LIGHTER than most tires. I am running 205/55 and 225/55 G-max AS-05s on 16x7 rims...Sadly, they don't make that tire in the stock Fiero GT sizes.
They do make those sizes in their AltiMAX RT43 Grand touring tire..... and they are 3-4 lbs lighter than the Coopers. $82 and $87 at Tire rack.
The lighter un-sprung mass will make your car handle and ride better, and less ROTATIONAL mass will make it accelerate and brake better.
Good stuff so far! I deliberately chose two very different tires to help get the discussion going. In reality I'm going to be driving spring-fall and have been wanting to try out autocross for years now. So the premise stays the same: what tire will squeeze every ounce of performance out of a relatively stock setup?
The answer almost certainly is somewhere in between. The challenge is finding one in a 15" rim that is close enough to the stock size that is doesn't cause problems. I find the ~3.5% difference of the Toyos completely acceptable. As far as width is concerned, at this point its largely a function of availability since 15" tires are becoming more and more scarce. I think ideally you would end up with a tire in the same dimentions as stock but with a compound and tread that was able to fulfill the premise. Keep the thoughts coming!
If you are serious about tracking it, you should probably go with one of the extreme performance tires- and few companies make anything that will fit a 15x7 rim. They make a few 15" tires in extreme performance- but the overall diameter is MUCH smaller than what was stock- creating problems in both Speedo accuracy and maybe ground clearance. Smaller diameter would help on short tracks as far as Gear ratio- better acceleration. The 7 inch wheel width is not good for tires over 225 width. (Like a 245 mm wide tire)
It may be better to buy what is relatively cheap and fits, then run some track events, and, if you are "Hooked", then maybe spring for better wheels that will accept better tires.
Just a bit of info; 40 lbs off the wheel/tire package total equals 200 lbs off of the car itself....I cut my weights by 3 lbs on each rear and 6 lbs on each front and it felt like a whole other car.....Weight is really important on tires and wheels!
I use exactly those Toyo Proxes tyres on my car in exactly the same sizes. Yes the ride is harsh (suspension mods as well). Yes you can nail those corners at high speed without scrubing the front tyres or losing the back end (spinning out), in the dry. No, you can't take the car out on a wet day! Not unless you like wheel spinning burnouts at each gear change and losing it totally on the same corner that you did so well at the day before when the sun was out!!
Saying that, I wouldn't put cheap "normal" tyres on my car any more. I like the precise feel that the Toyo's give.
We ran Conti DWs as our wet track tire, worked very well for that but lost time to the 200 treadwear tires. Good street tire with good but not Proxes level dry grip, and good treadlife.
Well, I decided trying to find "optimum performance" in the 15" rim was unnecessarily limiting really good options, so I just ordered the cs5 Ultras in the stock sizes. I love the look of the stock wheels, but if I end up wanting some performance tires in the future they will be mounted on these 17x7.5s. They are the closest I could find appearance-wise that had decent enough offset and weren't $300+ per wheel.
Edit: The cs5s came to just under $300 from Simple Tire, so I feel like they are a pretty good bargain for the performance. That, and Cooper is currently running a promotion where you get $50 back on those tires, so it's really more like $250 if you buy in the next few days.
[This message has been edited by Modesto (edited 04-14-2020).]
My old tires were high performance summer tires in the same sizes. Kumho Ecsta SP . They worked great when they were new, on the track and on the street. There was a gap between track days of about 7 years and as they got older they got rock hard. Howled on every corner last time out. But even aggressive driving on the street I could not get a peep out of them. I bought the tires above for occasional track day use and they are also an all season tire so I can still drive at lower temperatures. For the weight of my car and how it is set up I expect good things on the track but have not been there yet. On the street they are impressive and unexpectedly quiet.
I tried to get a 215/ 255 combo in the same tire but the 215 was not available in a 16" size. As you can see by todays photo at the bottom, no going for a drive today.
------------------ 86 GT built 2.2 ecotec turbo rear SLA suspension QA1 coilovers on tube arms
I'm with olejoedad on the size. I always go up 1 size on all my vehicles. You're a bit limited on the stock 88 front due to the narrower rims.
I ran Goodyears Eagles for a long time, but they seemed to loose their gripping after about 50% wear. I've run Yokohama Avids and though they were great rain tires, they wore quickly and were noisy. I eventually came upon the Kumho tires and have been very pleased with their performance. I've done a lot of extremely hard driving through the mountains and they have never lost traction with me. I've had them on my 87GT for at least 50K miles and there is still lots of tread left.
I've had good luck with Goodyear Eagle All Season tires in sizes. In the rear I used 225 x 45 x17 . In front 205 x 45 x17 The handling is great but I also run a rear swaybar. While they look excellent and the handling is good, be forewarned. Although these tires are the same OD as the OEM tires (no speedometer error) it comes at a sacrifice of ride that is much harsher
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 04-15-2020).]
I had a nasty wreck in my 88GT because of old tires. Rubber became hard and "non-grippy". A guy at my favorite tire store, right after I got my car back from a Fiero Factory repair and was buying four new tires, told me to never drive on tires older than seven years.
Wreck: driving along, not pushing it, probably 45 mph on a black top road near home. Sudden downpour, curve, rear end tried to pass me on the right and succeeded! I took out two brick fence posts.
You might want to consider yourself somewhat lucky. An old hard tire will build up and hold heat longer than a newer tire. Heat is the enemy of bonded rubber and steel and will separate to cause failure. One other thing to also keep in mind that most major tire retailers will not service or help to maintain any tire 10 years or older. I replaced almost perfectly new looking Bridgestone Potenza tires that were on my ’88 and stored inside my garage for about 8 years with Yokohama Avid Touring S. Good grip, very little road noise and smooth rolling. Just saying. enjoy, =spencer
I believe that environmental conditions and brand determine a tires life. On one of my wife's old cars she had tires on it for about 12 years until the car was sold. No problems at all. I would say cars parked outside especially on bare ground would deteriorate quicker than garage kept tires. As a general rule 10 years is about the limit to change my tires but periodic inspection greatly helps. If you look between the tread and at the side walls and see any cracking that tire is toast.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Toyo Proxes R888R and related are "Street legal" but have many problems.
Most are made for clean dry pavement regardless on whatever "Tread" to pass for DOT tires. Clean means no sand, dirt, leaves, grass, and more on the road or track. Dry means Dry same as NASCAR etc require Dry on their tracks or stop racing. Some Race Org's allow "Rain Tires" but still have problems if track is wet for medium to heavy rain.
IOW These tires are made to pass tracks requiring some classes to have DOT Tires. Not to be run on the Street and if done so will wear out fast and have other problems like hydroplaning very easy.
Cooper CS5 Ultra Touring and other "All season" "M+S Rated" tires work better to much better but can have problems driving in heavy rain or any snow/ice regardless on publish data/hype on the manufacturer sites.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
