Hello all. First time Fiero owner and poster here so I hope I am putting this in the right place. I read all the rules and what not... but I am not perfect.
Anyways, I recently bought an 85 Fiero off of a guy who knew next to nothing about it other than it was a standard. I wanted a Fiero that was a 5spd, it ran well, and the price was right, so one thing lead to another and I bought it. Turns out, the guy before him was REALLY into modifying the car. Now, I had thought about doing some mods myself, but he didn't leave me much room for improvement!
You name it, its been changed. Hood scoop, rebuilt headlight motors, upgraded radio, all poly suspension bushings, uprated brakes, uprated shocks and struts, rear sway bar, uprated cradle mounts, full new exhaust system, 5spd swap, no slip pulley mod, and a V6 engine swap. There are probably some more that I haven't even found yet honestly...
The car also came with every document and receipt from its entire life... well... almost every one. The engine seems to be missing from the document list along with its upgrades... and I have no idea how to tell what it is.
I have been scouring the forums for the past month trying to identify this thing as I know a bunch of different swaps are possible and nothing seemed beyond this guy. I have looked all over the engine trying my best to find the engine block codes to no avail... every spot that is suggested by some online person or diagram I have found has left me empty handed.
I know the engine is either a 2.8L, 3.1L, or a 3.4L. I know this only because the swap has reused the stock Fiero intake system which I believe only fits 60* v6 engines. I can also tell that this engine must be one of the newer models (or has been upgraded I guess) as the heads are aluminum rather than iron... but other than those two details... I don't know how else to identify the engines from each other.
The only clues I have are that this guy also printed out every tutorial he ever used to swap things (a lot of which came directly from this forum). Judging by the dates of the tutorials that were printed out, it looks like he started this swap around 2011... not that that is very significant information... but I have very little so anything is something. He has printed tutorials for a 2.8L engine swap, but he also printed the tutorial for relocating the starter on a 3.4L.
The previous owner told me that the owner before him told him that the engine was swapped and was cammed... that tells me nothing and heaven only knows how I would figure out what cam is in it...
The only thing I can tell while driving it is that the car PULLS HARD. When you push the loud pedal down, this thing hoists its nose and hauls... you know what. I mean... it's no super car or anything, but it feels much faster than the quoted 130hp out of a 2.8L.
Anyways... do any of you have any good ideas on how to identify the engine thats in it? I originally bought the car to do an engine swap on anyways be it a V8 or a 3800SC sometime in the future so whoever ends up wanting the engine, I would want them to actually know what they are getting (or if I decide to stick with this engine, I would like to know what parts to look up)
[This message has been edited by atv_123 (edited 06-18-2019).]
You need to get the numbers off the block, get under the car with a flashlight and get the numbers. Then search the casting number, there is a date stamp also to tell you when the block was made.
Originally posted by atv_123: I know the engine is either a 2.8L, 3.1L, or a 3.4L. I know this only because the swap has reused the stock Fiero intake system which I believe only fits 60* v6 engines. I can also tell that this engine must be one of the newer models (or has been upgraded I guess) as the heads are aluminum rather than iron... but other than those two details... I don't know how else to identify the engines from each other.
This statement is incongruent.
The Fiero intake system fits the iron heads, not the aluminium heads.
Take some pics, we may be able to identify what you have.
Use Pennock''s Image Poster at the bottom of the page (look for rectangular icon) to add pics to your posts.
You need to get the numbers off the block, get under the car with a flashlight and get the numbers. Then search the casting number, there is a date stamp also to tell you when the block was made.
Yeah... I found that site a while ago... but I was unable to locate the numbers. I found a GM badge on the side of the engine along with a big F that must have been 3 inches tall... but I couldn't seem to locate the engine codes... My guess is that is "should" be above that GM badge right? That was the only place I could really imagine it being at with that sites description.
I have seen many "supposed" locations for the engine codes brought up. The one that site mentions on the right side/ front under the head, one behind the distributor supposedly (dunno how on earth your supposed to see that), one above the starter, one in front of the thermostat housing (again... no idea how I am supposed to see it)... but so far I haven't been able to find it.
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Originally posted by pmbrunelle:
This statement is incongruent.
The Fiero intake system fits the iron heads, not the aluminium heads.
Take some pics, we may be able to identify what you have.
Use Pennock''s Image Poster at the bottom of the page (look for rectangular icon) to add pics to your posts.
Oh really?! I just thought it would fit both. I may have incorrectly assessed what material it was then. The reason I thought it was Aluminum was from the color of the metal that I could actually see. It had a nice bright shine to it which I would normally associate with aluminum. Guess I should have hit it with a magnet to really make sure.
When I get home I can try my best to snap some pictures (if it isn't raining out... again). If that doesn't work out though I do have a bunch on my phone (I was using it as my eyes because I can't get my head up in there to see what is going on) but the quality is pretty rough (thus why I will try to get better ones)
[This message has been edited by atv_123 (edited 06-18-2019).]
When I get home I can try my best to snap some pictures...
As previously mentioned, use Pennock's Image Poster (PIP) if you're running a Windows PC to host and post images. Max width - 1024 pixels. Max file size - 300 kb.
And yeah, put a magnet on those heads!
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 06-18-2019).]
If you found a big "F" just above the starter and on the opposite side near the rear freeze plug with ribbing running outward, then you have a 3.4 pushrod engine from a 93-95 Camaro or Firebird.
Alright... this took me a while as my computer really didn't want to cut down the images for some reason.
I also slapped a magnet onto the heads... they may look aluminum to me, but they are definitely iron heads, so you are definitely correct... I am sure your not surprised by that.
Now these images are of the rear of the engine (the side facing the rear of the car) as I can't even get my phone up in to take pictures on the front side of the engine... there is a lot of stuff packed up in there.
[This message has been edited by atv_123 (edited 06-18-2019).]
Yup. Most definitely a 3.4. Camarobird motor. A very popular swap for the Fiero. Many people say that it's the engine that should have come in the Fiero, from the factory. Depending upon what has been done, you're probably looking at ~165-200 HP. (Stock 3.4 is ~160. Ported heads and intake, a big cam, and tuned headers will get you closer to 200.)
Have any pics of the car? Someone here will probably recognize it, and maybe even identify the build. There might even be a thread on here that documents the whole thing.
Oh... Welcome to our obsession!
Edit - Based upon the orientation of the shift cables, you have the Isuzu tranny. I had one in my 3.4 car for a while. It's a nice shifting trans, but you don't want to shock load it. (IOW, no "clutch dumps" or speed shifting.) 2nd gear is usually the "weak spot".
If you want to "beat on it", I might suggest a Getrag swap, or even better, an F23. But if you drive it sanely, the Isuzu will do fine.
------------------ Raydar 88 Formula IMSA Fastback. 4.9, NVG T550 Praise the Lowered!
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 06-18-2019).]
You definitely want to either replace the factory heat shields that are missing on the exhaust crossover pipe... or heat wrap that pipe. Your ICM will thank you.
Yup. Most definitely a 3.4. Camarobird motor. A very popular swap for the Fiero. Many people say that it's the engine that should have come in the Fiero, from the factory. Depending upon what has been done, you're probably looking at ~165-200 HP. (Stock 3.4 is ~160. Ported heads and intake, a big cam, and tuned headers will get you closer to 200.)
Have any pics of the car? Someone here will probably recognize it, and maybe even identify the build. There might even be a thread on here that documents the whole thing.
Oh... Welcome to our obsession!
Edit - Based upon the orientation of the shift cables, you have the Isuzu tranny. I had one in my 3.4 car for a while. It's a nice shifting trans, but you don't want to shock load it. (IOW, no "clutch dumps" or speed shifting.) 2nd gear is usually the "weak spot".
If you want to "beat on it", I might suggest a Getrag swap, or even better, an F23. But if you drive it sanely, the Isuzu will do fine.
Well that's nice to know... now I finally know what on earth is in this thing.
I have heard about the weakness in the Isuzu tranny, but just how weak is weak? I don't treat transmissions very hard at all and like to keep my shifts as smooth as possible... can't beat nailing a perfect downshift... but this car seems to have a slightly sticky throttle cable (right at the bottom of the travel) which makes taking off smoothly rather difficult. (fast or otherwise)
I ask that question because my previous car was a Saab 900 which had a really delicate second gear... like... REALLY delicate.
I might do a transmission swap in the future anyways depending on what happens (you know how these things go). Do there happen to be any options with a limited slip diff? I ask only because I have noticed that the Isuzu doesn't seem to have one and with some of the roads around here... an LSD would really come in handy. (tripoding to enter a side road around here because of the massive change in elevation is nothing out of the ordinary... so it helps to have a way to put the power to the wheel that isn't in the air)
As for power... I would like to get it up as far as possible... not like... internal rebuilding but you know... the usual exterior type bolt on stuff... or perhaps something even more.
As for pictures of the car, you guys might recognize it... he did come here a lot for help judging by all the different tutorials he printed out.
Originally posted by atv_123: I have heard about the weakness in the Isuzu tranny, but just how weak is weak? I don't treat transmissions very hard at all and like to keep my shifts as smooth as possible... can't beat nailing a perfect downshift...
It's not that bad; I had an Isuzu behind a V6 Fiero for a number of years and it didn't break. However, YMMV.
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Originally posted by atv_123: but this car seems to have a slightly sticky throttle cable (right at the bottom of the travel) which makes taking off smoothly rather difficult. (fast or otherwise)
In one of the pictures, we can see that the shift cables are very close to the throttle linkage; looks like the throttle linkage may hang up on the shift cables.
The Isuzu's shift cables are not ideal with the V6 Fiero intake system; on my Fiero I routed the cables over the rubber intake tube, rather than under. This didn't force an unnatural bend right out of the transmission-mounted bracket. The rubber tube fits underneath the cables, with persuasion.
Then, to keep the cables away from the throttle body, I made a hook from coat-hanger wire to keep the cables away from the throttle body. The hook was anchored to the LH decklid hinge box. You should only pull the minimum to avoid hanging up the throttle linkage on the cables; the less that cables are bent, the less friction they'll have.
Remember than the engine moves on its mounts, so whatever clearance you have at rest isn't the same during launch.
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Originally posted by atv_123: Do there happen to be any options with a limited slip diff? I ask only because I have noticed that the Isuzu doesn't seem to have one and with some of the roads around here... an LSD would really come in handy. (tripoding to enter a side road around here because of the massive change in elevation is nothing out of the ordinary... so it helps to have a way to put the power to the wheel that isn't in the air)
LSD's are not (to my knowledge) found stock in GM econobox transmissions. It is in general an aftermarket item that you purchase and install in your transmission.
Welding the diff is an option.
If you have a rear sway bar installed, you may try removing it. This may allow the inside wheel to droop further and more easily maintain contact with the road.
You definitely want to either replace the factory heat shields that are missing on the exhaust crossover pipe... or heat wrap that pipe. Your ICM will thank you.
That's a really good point. I don't even know what thing the PO tried to install to do that. To me it just looks like a bent piece of sheet metal with some heat tape on it. It probably doesn't do a very good job so I will look to see if I can find the stock replacement as melting things isn't really at the top of my agenda.
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Originally posted by pmbrunelle: In one of the pictures, we can see that the shift cables are very close to the throttle linkage; looks like the throttle linkage may hang up on the shift cables.
The Isuzu's shift cables are not ideal with the V6 Fiero intake system; on my Fiero I routed the cables over the rubber intake tube, rather than under. This didn't force an unnatural bend right out of the transmission-mounted bracket. The rubber tube fits underneath the cables, with persuasion.
Then, to keep the cables away from the throttle body, I made a hook from coat-hanger wire to keep the cables away from the throttle body. The hook was anchored to the LH decklid hinge box. You should only pull the minimum to avoid hanging up the throttle linkage on the cables; the less that cables are bent, the less friction they'll have.
Remember than the engine moves on its mounts, so whatever clearance you have at rest isn't the same during launch.
I will try my best to take all of that into account. I thought the shifter seemed a little stiff as well (gotta love smooth shifts) and was looking for ways to make it smoother. I will try rerouting the cables as smoothly as possible and try the tricks you suggest to get the gear action a bit smoother.
As for the throttle... it is really close, I suppose it could be getting caught on something. I originally thought the throttle body was sticking so I took off the rubber intake hose and tried cleaning it all out. It was a little dirty... but not sticky throttle body dirty. And I guess I worded my post wrong originally now that I look at it. When I said my throttle sticks at the bottom of the travel, that makes it sound like its sticky near full throttle. To clarify, my throttle is sticky for the first 1/3rd of the pedal travel... once you get past that, the travel is nice and smooth. This makes driving the car fast nice and easy, but inversely, driving like a normal citizen is rather difficult because fine throttle control in the beginning of the pedal travel just doesn't exist. This leads to rather bumpy starts or rather aggressive throttle input changes at low speeds when all I wanted to do was press the throttle ever so slightly harder to increase my speed slightly... not jump for 15 to 40mph.
Long story short... any help on rerouting cables to get smoother operation is a plus in my book and I will try anything.
Also, side tangent, is there an easier way to mount the rubber intake tube? That thing was a major pain to re install... heck... I am not even 100% sure I got it all the way back on there. It really fought me tooth and nail when I was trying to put it back on there.
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Originally posted by pmbrunelle: LSD's are not (to my knowledge) found stock in GM econobox transmissions. It is in general an aftermarket item that you purchase and install in your transmission.
Welding the diff is an option.
If you have a rear sway bar installed, you may try removing it. This may allow the inside wheel to droop further and more easily maintain contact with the road.
I have done a lot of reading over the past day or so... you are correct. As far as I can see, no normal Fiero transmission swap would yield a OEM LSD.
I have found a few options for ones that can be installed in the stock transmissions, could be worth the trouble for me... will have to do some more research into exactly what all is involved in swapping the diff in one of these transmissions. A decent number of roads in my area are gravel/dirt and have extreme elevation changes (as I alluded to before) thus the reason that I brought the LSD thing up. Is it necessary? No, not at all... just makes things easier when you have to deal with dirt/mud/uneven ground and whatever else gets thrown my way.
I could weld it I guess... but man... that just sounds like it could be pretty harsh to live with.
losing the rear sway bar would help keep the tires on the ground... your right about that in every way. But I gotta say... when I actually do find a proper road (or even just a halfway smooth dirt/gravel road) I absolutely LOVE the way this thing handles. The car loves to rotate into corners, and that's just the way I like it. Taking out the rear sway bar would also increase traction in the rear and increase the amount of understeer that the car would display... and honestly... I like sliding around too much to let that happen XD
So hilariously... I want to leave in the sway bar because it reduces rear end traction... something I was trying to fix by adding an LSD. It's backwards logic I guess when you look at it that way... but you know... pretend we are making a rally car here I guess as that's the kind of terrain I deal with on a daily basis. Good handling and a way to maximize power to the ground.
I can also switch up the tires to deal with the traction problems... will have to look into my options as my requirements are kind of unusual to most Fiero owners I would guess.
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Originally posted by Raydar:
That's a beautiful 85. I don't recognize it from the Forum, however.
It is a very nice car... came with its own teething problems most of which I have fixed now... but considering all the times he apparently came to these forums, I would be surprised if he never posted. But... it is possible. There is a TON of information on here, so perhaps he just never had to ask a question.
[This message has been edited by atv_123 (edited 06-20-2019).]
It is possible to adjust the stiffness from the cabin. Using a cable, you can rotate the lever arm from the "easy" direction to the "hard-to-bend" direction.
Only one cable was hanging up on the throttle body; that's the one I pulled out of the way.
To facilitate the rubber intake tube installation, I suggest unclamping the shift cables from their mount. Now, you can install the rubber tube without having to force against the shift cables.
Then, clamp down the shift cables into their mount. As you clamp down the cables into their receptacles, they will push into the rubber intake tube and create the space they need.
It is possible to adjust the stiffness from the cabin. Using a cable, you can rotate the lever arm from the "easy" direction to the "hard-to-bend" direction.
It's not so much that I didn't think about it as much as I didn't even realize that this was a thing. That is really cool... little pricey, but really cool nonetheless.
Only one cable was hanging up on the throttle body; that's the one I pulled out of the way.
To facilitate the rubber intake tube installation, I suggest unclamping the shift cables from their mount. Now, you can install the rubber tube without having to force against the shift cables.
Then, clamp down the shift cables into their mount. As you clamp down the cables into their receptacles, they will push into the rubber intake tube and create the space they need.
Alright, I will give that a try once I get the brakes all installed and what not (throwing new brakes on the car... the old ones were shot... UPS supposedly delivered them today). I'll also try to check all the cable routing and see if there are any kinks I can remove as you never know.
Also, that's a super clean engine bay. I am impressed with how good it looks!
[This message has been edited by atv_123 (edited 06-25-2019).]
I've actually seen a modified car in my town with that type of adjustable sway bar.
The web page I linked to was just the first one I found with a decent picture to explain the concept, while I was rushing to finish posting before the end of the lunch break.
I'm guessing that it's possible to implement such a setup for less money than that.
Here is another photo I found showing how a cable is attached to rotate the lever arm:
