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88 Fiero - Hard to start when warm - electrical issue by 06GTO
Started on: 04-08-2019 09:16 PM
Replies: 11 (293 views)
Last post by: 06GTO on 04-11-2019 06:26 PM
06GTO
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Report this Post04-08-2019 09:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 06GTOSend a Private Message to 06GTOEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
'88 Coupe, with a 3.4 pushrod and 5 speed in it.

Runs great and overall pretty happy with how it has been running since all the work. Been chasing one issue since I did the swap though.

Happens on and off, and, I don't drive it that much so I don't think if it often. But got it out today and figured it was time to fix it.

It doesn't like to start when warm. Acts like the battery is dead. Turns over slowly, lights dim, clicks, ect.

However, if it let it cool of a bit, starts right up. When it is going through this issue, the negative battery cable (the small one, that attaches to the chassis) gets really hot.

Hot enough, that it melted through the insulation a while back (replaced the cable).

What I've done:
Replaced battery
Replaced the negative battery cable (and small wire).
Cleaned off the chassis ground, and ran another ground wire from the rear of the block (trunk side) to the chassis to make sure the block had a good ground.

Negative battery cable is hooked up to the front of the block, if I remember right, the first stud on the head near the battery.

The melting negative ground tells me there's a short somewhere, but I'm at a lost as to where, especially since it only seems to have an issue when warm.

Drove it around 15 miles today, afraid to stop it somewhere as it might not start again. Lucky, when it was acting up after my drive, I had stopped it in the driveway. Let it sit about 20 minutes, and fired right up.

Thanks in advance for the thoughts/suggestions!
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shemdogg
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Report this Post04-08-2019 10:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for shemdoggSend a Private Message to shemdoggEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Lotsa folks recommend an extra ground strap from the firewall to the upper intake, that might help. Otherwise maybe starter heat soak making it pull crazy amps when the engines hot.

shem
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olejoedad
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Report this Post04-08-2019 11:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Starter heat soak.

A short will blow fuses, not make the ground wire hot.
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Crasian
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Report this Post04-08-2019 11:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CrasianSend a Private Message to CrasianEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Like the above response... starter heat soak and the inevitable no start. There is a battery load tester at my shop and I can measure how much amp the starter draws, but I would personally just buy a GOOD starter from a reputable source and install it.

-Crasian
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06GTO
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Report this Post04-09-2019 07:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 06GTOSend a Private Message to 06GTOEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Gotcha, that makes a lot of sense.

Didn't even think of that.

Is it fixable? How do I fix it?

Quick search says make some sort of heat shield, or wrap the start in that heat wrap?

How do those work out?

[This message has been edited by 06GTO (edited 04-09-2019).]

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css9450
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Report this Post04-09-2019 08:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for css9450Send a Private Message to css9450Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

Starter heat soak.



I agree; been there done that with a few different vehicles including my Fiero.
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olejoedad
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Report this Post04-09-2019 09:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If the starter is old, chances are it's down on power from years of heatsoaking, and replacement may be your best option.
There is a thread on here today about replacement with a later model gear reduction starter that you may find interesting.
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Report this Post04-09-2019 09:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yep replace the starter, check condition of the cable to the starter.

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06GTO
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Report this Post04-09-2019 01:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 06GTOSend a Private Message to 06GTOEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

If the starter is old, chances are it's down on power from years of heatsoaking, and replacement may be your best option.
There is a thread on here today about replacement with a later model gear reduction starter that you may find interesting.


Starter is new. It was replaced when I put the 3.4 in it (last year). Has maybe 100 miles on it since putting in the new engine. Obviously I don't drive it much.

I have a later model starter that I had originally bought when I put the new starter in it, but it just never quite fit. I'll check the thread.

No issues replacing the starter if necessary, but given it is pretty much new I'd like to explore other options to mitigate the heat soaking vs a new starter.

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olejoedad
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Report this Post04-09-2019 05:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
When you say new engine, is it remanned or rebuilt?
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06GTO
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Report this Post04-09-2019 05:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 06GTOSend a Private Message to 06GTOEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

When you say new engine, is it remanned or rebuilt?



Rebuilt.
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06GTO
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Report this Post04-11-2019 06:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 06GTOSend a Private Message to 06GTOEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks for the help everyone. I put some thermal blanket stuff around the starter and seems to helped quite a bit.

Un-scientific testing in my driveway seemed to yield good results, much quicker starting than it did before when it was warm. No time now to drive it around (I'll get to it this weekend), but at least I know what I'm looking at when/if it has a problem again.

I'm going to explore the small starter again as a long term solution, the starter case was hitting the block when I tried it last time, so not sure if I didn't have the right starter or whatever.

Again, much appreciate the help!
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