I have decided to install the larger S10 brake booster for better braking action. Got the actuator rod to the right length using Rodney Dickmans adapter but now the chore is to open up the area so that the bigger booster fits. Started working the metal area with a 2 lb hand sledge hammer and its going very slow. Just looking for tips on how we can get that area opened up more easily. Have two air hammers and might make up a special blunt end to speed up the process but not sure how of if this can work. Tips appreciated.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: Started working the metal area with a 2 lb hand sledge hammer and its going very slow. Just looking for tips on how we can get that area opened up more easily.
Swing harder.
But seriously, I did it with a 2-pound sledge. I could have done it faster with a bigger sledge, but the smaller one is more accurate.
I recently picked up a 10 lb sledge.....I can fix anything now! (Actually, if you just lay the sledge in front of your car, then point at it, the car rarely breaks down....)
You're using a baby hammer! The metal doesn't need to move much! Smack that metal!
I guess that's the case. Need to break out the heavy equipment and be manly! . The way I look at it the metal does have to move quite a bit. The diameter of the S-10 booster is about 2" more than the Fiero unit. There is a hump in the fender well (underneath the booster) that looks like it interferes and needs to be flattened, but there is also the area where the ridge steps up that needs to be widened. This is truly a muscle building job!.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
you need to Pound in about a 2" circle about 1/4" deep. I've installed the S10 in 2 of mine and am going to do a 3rd. it is" double walled metal" at that point, wack it, it won't hurt anything.
About half way there and still pounding. Just got out little Jim, the long handle sledge. Still believe that this job can be done with the right air hammer. The ones that we have have on the shelf have an assortment of chisel shanks. They can break up most anything but I don't feel comfortable using them.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 07-11-2018).]
Someone should make a new bracket that slightly offsets the booster to clear. It would also eliminate the need to remove the stock bracket from the Fiero booster.
Someone should make a new bracket that slightly offsets the booster to clear. It would also eliminate the need to remove the stock bracket from the Fiero booster.
Hmm, I wonder who would be a good choice to do that?
Dennis, When I did this job I used (2) 5 lb hammers. One I held against the area that needed moved and I used the other hammer to hit the first on. This eliminated striking the body metal directly. An official size and weight shot-put ball would of been even better but you get the idea.
Spoon
------------------ "Kilgore Trout once wrote a short story which was a dialogue between two pieces of yeast. They were discussing the possible purposes of life as they ate sugar and suffocated in their own excrement. Because of their limited intelligence, they never came close to guessing that they were making champagne." - Kurt Vonnegut
Dennis, I'm getting ready to do the same to my 86 GT. Any chance of you posting a few photos of the work?
Will try to do tommorrow.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Maybe I did it the wrong way, but I put spacers on the bottom bolts so my booster is at a slight angle. Enough that it clears and I didn't have to hammer.
Maybe I did it the wrong way, but I put spacers on the bottom bolts so my booster is at a slight angle. Enough that it clears and I didn't have to hammer.
Great idea! How many did it take to get the proper angle?
Maybe I did it the wrong way, but I put spacers on the bottom bolts so my booster is at a slight angle. Enough that it clears and I didn't have to hammer.
Pictures PLEEEEEASE!!! If this works well, it would be much better than hammering the poor car. I try so hard to keep my mint Fiero in good shape, I just can't bring myself to beating the crap out of it with a hammer!!!
"Someone should make a new bracket that slightly offsets the booster to clear. It would also eliminate the need to remove the stock bracket from the Fiero booster." But, when you LIFT the booster, the geometry to the Pedal Changes
Job is complete. Braking power is substantially improved. Very big difference. I used the new S10 booster that Rodney recommends (purchased at Summit Racing Equipment) plus his adapter end. About a $150 upgrade. I just bent enough metal for the booster to just fit the space. Its snug but not jammed in. If you don't get carried away, you will hardly see the mods. Once you strengthen your arm with the pounding, the job isn't hard. With do this on my other Fiero and this time will try the AC Delco unit that I purchased a while ago. With that unit some threading and adjusting of the actuator rod is necessary Don't like the angle install to save work as the booster rod was designed to be actuated in a linear not angular motion. Its unknown how much, if any the angular mount will affect performance or longevity. Here's how the final install looks with apologies for not finishing the detail. Fiero Brake Upgrade
PS: You must use the Fiero brake booster check valve as the S-10 unit uses a smaller hose size nipple. It just pulls out and pushes in. You will also need 13mm and 15mm box wrenches, preferably ones that have the adjustable multi-angle heads, and a needle nose pliers to pull the holding pin off the brake pedal.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 07-14-2018).]
Job is complete. Braking power is substantially improved. Very big difference. I used the new S10 booster that Rodney recommends (purchased at Summit Racing Equipment) plus his adapter end. About a $150 upgrade.
I did the same, used the Tuff Stuff booster and Rodney's banjo in my 87 GT and went autocrossing shortly after. I locked the brakes up a few times before I got adjusted to it.
Nice job. The black boot on the actuator rod looks good.
I agree about the angle being a concern. I understand that there is some deflection as the brake pedal is depressed, but I didn't want to add to it on something important like brakes. Also, it would seem that adding washers or any type of spacers increases the chance of flexibility. It also changes the angle for the studs on the bulkhead, such that pressure is applied unequally to the 2 sides, and at a tangent. Any movement of the bracket is sure to damage the threads on the studs. With the washers, the nuts will have to be torqued more to achieve the same results.
If you do the mod right, it will be less noticeable than a booster that is cockeyed with spacers. Also, putting the booster at an angle would seem to interfere more with the sunroof deflector mount.
The nuts against the bulkhead look a bit rounded. What nuts did you use? I didn't want mine to rust, so I got some nuts for marine applications. I bought special wrenches for this job. Still, it felt as if I got 1 click per turn. I skinned my knuckles, rather than round the nuts.
Agree on all points. Used the correct size wrenches and got the nuts tight but at times you are tightening in limited space in a small angle so the box wrench occasionally slips off. There was a slight rounding there but it doesn't weaken the install. Those are the OEM lock nuts and they loosen and tighten slowly. Might add that Tuff Stuff Boosters and accessories are Made in the U.S.A. by Hurst.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Pictures PLEEEEEASE!!! If this works well, it would be much better than hammering the poor car. I try so hard to keep my mint Fiero in good shape, I just can't bring myself to beating the crap out of it with a hammer!!!
Here's the best picture I took right after I finished it.
And to address some of the other questions or concerns as best as my memory will allow: You really can't tell at all that it is at an angle. It was 2 years ago so I don't remember the exact numbers, but I want to say about 3-4 small washers for about a quarter inch total. I can't say whether that slight angle causes any issue with the brakes. They've worked great for the last 2 years and I never drove a car who installed it via the smashing method to make a comparison. So in the end I guess you just have to choose what you think is the lesser evil. Smashing the car with a sledge hammer or having an angle which may or may not affect performance. Obviously I decided I'd rather live with the angle. Oh and my car is a hard top so no sunroof holder to worry about anyway.
In case you are wondering why I don't just go out and check and snap some better pics. Well as my profile says I'm in Korea now and couldn't bring my Fiero, so she's still at home in California :'(