Replaced driver side headlight motor, aligned motor/pivoting headlight with headlight cover, aligned cover to move without binding. Both lights turn on and off with the dash headlight switch. However when headlight switch is on and both lights are on the driver side is down and the passenger side is up. When the headlight switch is off both lights are off but the driver side is up and the passenger side is down.
I've tried manually getting them in synch by turning the knob of the driver side but as soon as I use the dash headlight switch the above situation happens again. I've tried disconnecting power to the driver side motor, manually getting them in synch, reconnecting power. Same problem reappears when dash headlight switch is used. I found advice on the internet to disconnect both sides motor power connectors, turn the dash switch on and off, and reconnect both power connectors. Again, as soon as I tried the dash headlight switch with both motors connected the same problem.
What year is the car? You said you replaced the headlight motor. Was it rebuilt? If so, by who? If it is a gen 1 headlight system...it sounds like you have your magnet oriented in the wrong direction on the armature inside the rebuilt headlight motor. This will cause your motors to work in the opposite polarity. Down will be up and up will be down. This happens when doing a rebuild if you don't line up the silicone white circle on the magnet to the remnants of that silicone that is left in the cavity of the headlight motor.
I agree that just switching the power input pins would probably fix the problem. 'Was hoping for an easier fix. Hard for me to compress those male pins to pull them out of the connector.
It's been a long time since I've had a Gen 2 motor completely apart. My comments are based upon the operation of the Gen 1 motors.
The windings or Stator can be installed back into the case in one of two orientations. If it's installed 180 rotation from what it came out, then the motor will run backward. This happened to me on my first Gen. 1 rebuild. One light would come up when the other went down, in a wig-wag pattern.
It's been a long time since I've had a Gen 2 motor completely apart. My comments are based upon the operation of the Gen 1 motors.
The windings or Stator can be installed back into the case in one of two orientations. If it's installed 180 rotation from what it came out, then the motor will run backward. This happened to me on my first Gen. 1 rebuild. One light would come up when the other went down, in a wig-wag pattern.
"Agree that the motor wires got reversed somehow.. could you have a broken tab, and the connectors are plugged in reverse on one side or other?"
No, there's only one way to plug in the two-conductor motor power connection, male to female. I've checked the old motor, passenger side motor, and the "rebuilt" motor connectors - all the same, all in good shape, all with "keys" (little internal ridges parallel to each male conductor pin, one ridge on the long axis of the overall oval shape as seen from the end, one at 90 degrees. There's no way I can reverse the connectors without basically mutilating the connector or, if I could, pulling each male conductor pin out of the male half of the overall connector, switching them, and pushing back in. Well, I guess I could just cut them, reverse, twist, solder, and wrap with electrical tape!
I guess I'm missing the point about the images of the Gen 1 motor. If the rebuilt Gen 2 motor I just received today is wired wrong, whatever, I should be able to return it.
Could I have assembled the mechanism wrong? Should I take the raising linkage off the end of the shaft, manually rotate the shaft 180 degrees, and reattach the linkage?
I am now in the midst of a Gen 1 motor rebuild. I have cleaned most parts, including a wire-brush job on my stators (they look pretty now), and so the silicone marks are gone...
Reassembly is next, but this thread is making me realize that I need to figure which way to put back the stators...
Hopefully there are some magnetic field lines leaking out from the stator... I have another set of old, but unmolested (still riveted) headlight motors.
I'm thinking that with a compass (which I own), I might be able to determine the North and South poles of the stator on my unmolested motors, and then I should be able to duplicate that polarity on the motors I'm rebuilding.
It may also be possible to work this out with a dollar-store bar magnet. I'll see what works.
If you rotate the magnet in many DC motors 180° then will behave as reverse wiring. Is a common problem because most don't mark or take picture before/during and have 50:50 chance magnet is reinstalled "backward."
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
Attaching the linkage 180 degrees on the motor shaft doesn't change direction the motor rotates.
What I was referring to in the Gen 1 motor is that large metal piece. See the surface with all the rust? If that piece were turned so that it's down, the motor would run the opposite direction. That's how they use the same motors for both sides of the car. The only diffrerence in left and right Fiero headlight motors is the shaft that the gears are mounted on and the direction the windings are installed.
After consulting with the gentleman who put the 3.4 and 4T60 in the Little Red Car, I'm going to try to pull the two pins out of the male side of the motor power connector, switch the pins, and reinsert. He (over the phone) pointed out the fold-down-to-latch, fold-out-to-unlatch retainer flap on the wire end of the male half of the connector. I've unlatched/opened that retainer flap and now have to figure a way to compress the expansion portions of the pins themselves which prevent just pulling them out, and switch 'em! Waiting for daylight.
[This message has been edited by John W. Tilford (edited 12-15-2017).]
Did you confirm with StockWise Auto that they in fact sent you the Driver Side Headlight motor? And for that matter...did you confirm that you in fact received the Driver Side and not the Passenger Side. Question them because they may confuse the two between Fiero and Camaro/TransAm. Why not send it back either way and tell them that it isn't working and have them ship another FIERO DRIVER SIDE MOTOR?
-Van
[This message has been edited by VanGTP5000 (edited 12-15-2017).]
Van, you and I are on the same page. Got an email this morning from StockWise. They are going to send me another. My email to them last night emphasized 1988 Fiero, driver side headlight motor.
I also could not find an easy way to pull the pins out of the male half of the power connector so I could switch them. At least not with the tools I have.
The tool to remove pins is simple looking, but the diameter that squeezes the tabs on the pin must be exact.. so is hard to replicate. Glad you are not reversing pins anyhow.. since the next time you do this job, and you will, it will be.. wait for it.. backwards again.
I was going to say it is difficult to do what you intended to do. I can't find a source for the headlight motor relay plugs (the ones that fold down as you put it) so I am considering getting them at a junkyard because both mine need to be replaced at the harness side. The motor side ones are still in tact. I plan to splice them in with butt connectors solder and shrink wrap.
You can't install a right side motor on left side lift assem. If you try, The output shaft is pointing the wrong side out of motor lower case.
If motor is built or rebuilt by others... Wire Pins can be installed wrong in the plug. Magnets install wrong but is very hard in many cases. I think magnets is glued to the case and case should only fit one way on the lower case. not sure if left and right upper is same magnet setup. I don't have one to look right now and snowing so not looking in garage etc. Gen2 Motor Brushes are "clocked" in lower case and shouldn't cause this.
87 OE Right side lower case does not have a hole to use output shaft. Later units have plugged the open hole for output shafts. Plugged case for right side, plugged cover for left side.
Gen 2 motor wiring uses weather pack type connectors and can be f'd by DIY etc w/o cutting wires. See my Cave, Weater/Metri Pack notes Easy to get or make a tool to remove Weather Pack pins.
Is possible replacement unit is backward too if same people built them for same reasons.
[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 12-15-2017).]
I had the same issue happen twice and it is an easy fix.... Motor came from Oreilleys and it was out of sequence with the other motor so I exchanged it for another motor...same issue. I jumped the connector with jumper wires and reversed the power connection.....motors were in sequence. It seems that the motors were wired incorrectly from the rebuilder for some reason. Reverse the power connection on the connector and your issue should be solved.
You're not doing anything wrong..... it's an issue with whomever is wiring the motors.
I had the same issue happen twice and it is an easy fix.... Motor came from Oreilleys and it was out of sequence with the other motor so I exchanged it for another motor...same issue. I jumped the connector with jumper wires and reversed the power connection.....motors were in sequence. It seems that the motors were wired incorrectly from the rebuilder for some reason. Reverse the power connection on the connector and your issue should be solved.
You're not doing anything wrong..... it's an issue with whomever is wiring the motors.
Basically said same as my post in rebuilding just above...
Plus Others cars use same motor but have Different GM PN because wired different and used them in a Fiero and some others will run "backwards" until you rewire the motor plug. Is common problem but dig thru PFF is a pain.
Need weather pack term tool and just swap pins on motor. Example tool https://www.amazon.com/Fast...l-Tool/dp/B0051POYJ2 or Lisle 14900 w/ this and others in one tool. (I have this one.) push tool over pin in the plug until bottom then pull wire out of plug. then pull tool out. done. You can try other ways but can wreck plug, pins or likely both. Will need the tool for replacing MAP O2 and other weather plugs.
That's impressive, Ogre! I see the gap on the tool "cylinder" to fit past the "key" ridges inside the connector "tubes". I'll wait the day or two it will take for the replacement motor to get here and try it before ordering the tool. But if the replacement motor runs OK, even if backwards, I'll order the tool and switch the wires/pins between the motor and the male side of the power connection. If the replacement Stockwise motor (A 1 Cardone brand, which apparently is reputable) is also out of phase just as the first, why take a third chance, even from another provider such as O'Reilly's? NAPA's and Pep Boy's prices are significantly higher and have the same Cardone name.
With all due respect to my Fiero Headlight motor heros fierofool and Theogre, I kinda think I called this from the beginning. I just wasn't aware of which generation headlight system was in question and assumed gen 1 because they are usually the guilty party. They however, have an uncanny ability to explain it in amazing detail. Thank god for them both lol!
-Van
[This message has been edited by VanGTP5000 (edited 12-18-2017).]
Fierofool, we'll find out later today, I hope. The replacement for the replacement headlight motor finally arrived. I installed, same problem. I immediately came inside, sat down at this same PC where you see me typing now, and ordered the special tool (illustration looks like a screw driver but with a skinny tube instead of a blade, tube has a slit/groove down one side to match the ridge inside the male connector channels) from Amazon.com. The shipment status email I received two days ago promised delivery today, 30 Dec. Unless it's dark when the tool arrives I'll sprint out to the garage and attempt to reverse the leads from the motor to the male connector, practicing first on the original motor leads/connector. By the way, both replacement motors had been entirely sprayed black, including the wire leads. I'll spot one with whiteout with a matching spot on one side of the connector before removing. (This lesson learned about ten years ago when replacing my wife's van battery. Did it in record time in Macy's parking lot while she was still inside spending money. Final test - starting - showed me I'd quickly replaced the same dead battery back in her van. Well, they looked the same sitting next to each other on the pavement, both black and whatever brand Sam's sold. Please don't tell her.)
Tool was around $22, over half of which was the "get this in 2 days" shipping cost. Our friendly vendor has offered me $25 (I'm sure to be spent with them) for my trouble.
I didn't see any point in asking for a replacement (3) for the replacement (2) for the replacement (1). Two in a row is a pretty strong indication the third would have had the same issue.
Even if you aren't going to request another replacement, I would certainly let StockWise know that the problem continues. As someone mentioned earlier, the motor may be for the Camaro/Firebird. I just did a search on their website for a headlight motor for a 91 Firebird and came up with the same 3 listings as for the 88 Fiero.
Agree, Fierofool and TheOgre. I've already suggested that to them via not only their and my email exchanges but also - you might like this - they sent me a link to a "How are we doing?" survey BEFORE the delayed replacement to the replacement arrived. Turns out my lengthy comments section of the survey got posted online as a review. Now they want me to change the review. I told them to wait until the second replacement arrived and if it was also backwards until I used the special tool, etc.
In both I've suggested that their stocking/inventory system might have the same item number for both Firebirds/Comaros and Fieros but without the side reversal for the Fieros. I see you verified what I suspected. They never responded to my (and now I know your) expressed suspicion.
[This message has been edited by John W. Tilford (edited 12-30-2017).]
I also checked PartsTrain.com for motors for a 91 Firebird and an 88 Fiero. They carry two brands. Cardone and Replacement. Cardone has the same numbers for both Firebird and Fiero, but what surprised me is that Replacement also shows the same part numbers for the two cars.
Back when I asked Stockwise for a replacement motor I toyed with the idea of asking for a passenger side Fiero (or Firebird or Camaro), but was too chicken to do it. In retrospect I should have.
Status report. Received the Amazon-sold little tool to compress the pins so I could pull them back out of the power connector. Tool looks like a midget screw driver, but with a thin wall tube instead of a blade. No slots or grooves in the tube - that must have been an illusion created by my eyes and the online illustration. The tube is so small it clears the "key" ridges and can be rotated around each pin to make sure it's all the way down. Worked great.
Switched the motor power leads as planned, snapped down the "pin retainer" plastic cover on the rear/motor end of the connector, connected to power, turned on the headlights - both came up! Driver side not all the way. Checked all pivots, applied a little WD-Magic-40, tested for smooth motion of headlight cover, tried it again. Driver headlight still didn't go all the way up, BUT - as though it was "re-learning" or "working out the reassembled pivot kinks" or both - after a few more on and off cycles both headlights are fully up when on and fully down when off.
Thank you all for your advice. The tool (Ogre provided the URL link above) is great. Now we know of at least two vendors who will cheerfully provide you a driver-side, gen 2, Fiero headlight motor with backwards/reverse polarity and can plan accordingly.
Open hood, turn on HL, if looks full open and not binding/pinching anywhere then close hood.
If 1 door is obvious lower then other then: HL lift has other damage/binding. HL lift is mounted too low. Reason all mount bolts are in slots. Damage to the car making HL lift open low. Door may have damage or parts missing.
Door need the two bearing strips or lift will bind and module will kill power. HL and other wires can bind/jam the lift too.
Don't know why plug is wrong. I have them and both work correct right out of box. #'s @ cardone.com.
[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 12-31-2017).]
