Yesterday I ordered a Microsquirt, its a baby Megasquirt essentially thats only $300 instead of $700 Theyre intended to be used on motorcycles and other small engines, but theyre configurable for up to eight clinders so theres no reason that they can't be used on a car. I know of a guy who's using one to control a turbo 6.0 LS in a chevy Colorado pickup thats making 1100hp with a 200 shot of NOS.
So has anyone here stuck a standalone on their 2.8? Im doing it so I can easily tune it for the intake manifold I made, and any other future modifications I make. I can also transfer it to any future engines I might use, so I view it as a good investment. If anyone else here has done this, do you have any advice for me? Or is it a straightforward process? The Microsquirt comes with a 30" pigtail harness, so Im hoping that will make it smooth(er) sailing.
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Originally posted by Frank2:
here's the goal: Build a mid engine car 1/2 as good as a Lotus Elise at 1/10 the cost.
I have no idea what Im doing, but Im doing it.
IG: @giveintogravity
[This message has been edited by Boot (edited 06-30-2017).]
Subscribing. I like the idea of this greatly as it could open up some doors without breaking the bank for sire. Document for us, basically I am asking for you to do all the hard work! ha
I've seen a couple of Haltech setups used on Fiero's. One was used on a turbo 3.1L . The Megasquirt should work and there is a lot of documentation online about it. Never seen the mini version used though.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
I had one (an MS2) on a stock 2.8 (now changing to turbo 3.2).
It's hard to give tips and tricks... if you want to learn how to tune, it's a mountain you need to scale yourself.
There's a lot you need to know, so it's hard to give general advice. But if you have specific questions, then those are easier to answer.
Obviously, I have a calibration for the 2.8 (the result of 7 years of fine-tuning)... but if I shared it with you, and you just uploaded it to your microcontroller "as-is", then that would be depriving you of the normal learning curve.
PM, I have a basic understanding of how tuning is SUPPOSED to work... ie, I am starting at zero Ive been watching videos of people doing it with haltechs and megasquirts, I hope that what ive gleaned from that will be enough to get me a steady idle and a decent road tune.
Itll give me a good use for the laptop Ive been hoarding in my closet for seven or eight years, too.
When I started, I was a semi-broke student, so I bought a used laptop computer for $60.
It was a turd though; old hard drives don't like to operate with the vibrations from road bumps! Also, old laptops have no battery life to speak of, so I found a 12 VDC to 120 VAC inverter to be indispensable.
If you want my calibration, shoot me an email. Though keep in mind that my MS won't be wired exactly the same as yours, so every setting would need to be looked over with a fine-toothed comb to make sure it's OK for your install.
[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 06-30-2017).]
I have DynamicEFI ECU on my SuperDuty4, but they make a product that will run multiport injectors as well. Its a great product and easy to use in conjunction with TunerPro.
It's the little things that you gain by using a hardware/software solution engineered by a major manufacturer. They designed it to 'just work' because it went in a $20,000+ car sold to Grandma. Things like a clutch pedal input switch so that the engine doesn't stall on underrun. Raising the idle RPM by a few ticks when you engage the A/C. A standardized J1850 databus for all sensor info if you're on an OBDII computer. Things like that. Granted that the Megasquirt platforms are all open-source, there's no reason that you couldn't do these things if you're savvy.
I'm not intimately familiar with the 2.8 platform, so I'm not sure exactly which computer he's referring to, but the '7730 computer is a popular swap for 2.8 Fieros.
It's the little things that you gain by using a hardware/software solution engineered by a major manufacturer. They designed it to 'just work' because it went in a $20,000+ car sold to Grandma. Things like a clutch pedal input switch so that the engine doesn't stall on underrun. Raising the idle RPM by a few ticks when you engage the A/C. A standardized J1850 databus for all sensor info if you're on an OBDII computer. Things like that. Granted that the Megasquirt platforms are all open-source, there's no reason that you couldn't do these things if you're savvy.
I'm not intimately familiar with the 2.8 platform, so I'm not sure exactly which computer he's referring to, but the '7730 computer is a popular swap for 2.8 Fieros.
I feel that a modern factory computer is great at doing what it's designed to do, when you don't change a thing.
However, a modern factory computer is a monster. Lots of tables, many of which are not understood.
When you start modding the hardware, you ruin the delicate balance of everything, and you're left with an incomprehensible mess.
Even though the computer can run the stock engine transparently so that even Grandma won't complain of the slightest hiccup, how can the DIYer understand and readjust all the settings to make it happen?
When a car stalls because the clutch switch isn't connected, that's because of excess complexity that's buried in the factory computer, not a fundamental requirement of operating an engine. Probably on overrun, the computer shuts off the idle airflow, for whatever reason (known to the original designers, and certainly not documented). Then, if the computer detects that idling is imminent, idle air is restored.
Or, you can simply provide idle air continuously. After all carbed cars didn't seem to need a clutch input. If there are two ways to make something work, can't the simple path be chosen?
On my V6 Fiero, I will be using the 7X VR crank trigger to directly provide position information to the ECU.
Normally, the VR sensor first goes to the DIS module to convert its analog signal to nice digital square waves. Then, it's off to the ECU. My car won't need a DIS module, because my computer isn't locked into reading a DIS input. I can make the ECU work with my choice of VR sensor, adjusting the gain/hysteresis/thresholds to make it work.
Couldn't do that with a factory computer. With a factory computer, you're locked into using their input/output configuration.
Obviously, I am biased, but I suggest the panacea of computers that are actually designed to be tinkered with.
Trying to tune a factory computer is like trying to hit on the 10/10 supermodel who has already refused your advances multiple times.
The aftermarket computer is perhaps just a 6/10 plain Jane at her best, but she wants to listen to you, and is even willing to go on a date with you. If you give her a chance, you may fall in love with her.
Disclaimer: I have never messed with a factory computer. That said, I do work at an automotive electronics outfit, and I am astounded at the software complexity that we manage to pack into things...
[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 07-03-2017).]
I was mainly talking about using factory computers on the hardware they were designed to run, such as my L47/Aurora 4.0L powered Fiero run with a GM computer and a GM-written Shelby operating system. It's an OBDII computer, so it's leaps and bounds over OBDI. I've never taken a factory computer and used it on an application that it was never designed for, though. I agree; that's needlessly complicated. Although user ryan.hess was able to write a custom .cal for the '7730 computer that would run a Northstar on OBDI. I planned on using that computer until the OBDII/Shelby one was an option.
I also could have gone with a Haltech, Mircotech or even Megasquirt. Instead, I chose the GM computer for it's extremely low investment and ease of use. It cost me $100 and fired on the first key turn. The decent aftermarket computers start at about a grand, and then I would have had to put a lot of effort into even getting it to idle, I feel. But then, maybe not.
Having said all of that, I'm a tinkerer and a DIY'er, so I would enjoy setting up and tuning my own from-scratch EFI system for some obscure motor at some point in the future. I thought about trying to hide a Microsquirt on my '73 Triumph Bonneville when I get to reassembling that this winter, but I decided that I want to run a Morris Magneto with no battery instead. A bit more period correct, I suppose.
Megasquirt spark table 16x16 spark resolution 0.1 fuel table 16x16 Takes at least a megasquirt 2 just to control the Fiero 4 wire IAC, or a separate add on module $$$$
My ECM spark table 14x17 spark resolution 0.01 fuel table 16x32 plus idle tables, shift light tables, etc (it takes a megasquirt3 to get shift light control) Runs off a wide band O2, not just logging, but runs off of it. (megasquirt says it can input a wideband but doesn't say if it is just for logging or not) Their web site really sucks BTW Full wastegate control, even though I use my Greddy for that. $
Stand alones usually use simple engine controls, GM ECMs usually have 2-3 times the controls.
This is all just for example.
Edit to add: I have even hacked it more than the standard hack.
[This message has been edited by sardonyx247 (edited 07-03-2017).]
MS2 can work in closed-loop with the wideband. It would be pretty useless otherwise.
Immediately when valid WB sensor data is available mine went into closed-loop, even during warmup. During warmup, the AFR target will be enriched to reflect the engine's need for a richer mixture.
I will be using a PWM boost control solenoid with MS2.
Regarding a 16x32 fuel table, when have you ever felt the need for that kind of resolution?
As for 0.1 deg timing resolution, when I had HEI, there was about +/- 2° of spark scatter at idle, if commanding a constant spark advance. Probably this was from the 3/4" of slack in my timing chain, so the limit was mechanical, not electronic. (though my crank trigger will probably be better).
What's the point of 0.01 timing resolution anyway? Are you going to the dyno and adjusting timing by 0.01 deg increments between runs? I am planning on doing adjustments more like 1 or 2 degrees at a time. Yes, you need smooth interpolation between cells, but is the effect of 0.1 deg even measurable?
I might use mine for water/alcohol injection.
[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 07-03-2017).]
MS2 can work in closed-loop with the wideband. It would be pretty useless otherwise.
Immediately when valid WB sensor data is available mine went into closed-loop, even during warmup. During warmup, the AFR target will be enriched to reflect the engine's need for a richer mixture.
I will be using a PWM boost control solenoid with MS2.
Regarding a 16x32 fuel table, when have you ever felt the need for that kind of resolution?
As for 0.1 deg timing resolution, when I had HEI, there was about +/- 2° of spark scatter at idle, if commanding a constant spark advance. Probably this was from the 3/4" of slack in my timing chain, so the limit was mechanical, not electronic. (though my crank trigger will probably be better).
What's the point of 0.01 timing resolution anyway? Are you going to the dyno and adjusting timing by 0.01 deg increments between runs? I am planning on doing adjustments more like 1 or 2 degrees at a time. Yes, you need smooth interpolation between cells, but is the effect of 0.1 deg even measurable?
I might use mine for water/alcohol injection.
well if we are comparing... Mine cost$0 yours cost?$$$ what could you have done to/for your Fiero for the money you spent?
If I went stand alone I would go Motec, as I know the system, and has some very great features, like traction control, etc.
But what I have does what I need, it is speed density, started with a distributor, then I figured out how to do DIS on it, using the stock crank trigger (3.4L) I think mine is better than most stand alones, but to each their own.
Theyre intended to be used on motorcycles and other small engines, but theyre configurable for up to eight clinders so theres no reason that they can't be used on a car. I know of a guy who's using one to control a turbo 6.0 LS in a chevy Colorado pickup thats making 1100hp with a 200 shot of NOS. 
ha
Ive been watching videos of people doing it with haltechs and megasquirts, I hope that what ive gleaned from that will be enough to get me a steady idle and a decent road tune. 
