Has anyone gone back and re-dyno's their cars years after first installing the Trueleo intake? When I first dyno'd my car and the intake was fairly new, I made 249 ft*lbs. 4 years later I was making 220 ft*lbs. 3 years later I was making 203 ft*lbs. Some of this power loss is due to switching to bigger wheels and tires, but it seems not all of it...
After cutting off the neck to weld on a straight neck instead of S shaped neck, I found lots of internal rust. I've since switched to a ported FIREBIRD 2.8 intake (since I run DIS and don't need the S shaped neck) and I'm close to having the car on the road... Over the years I've had to keep cutting back fuel... Now my mechanic friend says the car is running LEAN with the Firebird intake. So it looks like I'll be adding fuel back (and hopefully getting back the power I've been losing).
So I'm wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience with the Trueleo intake. Great idea, bad material choice is what I'm seeing.
The Trueleo intakes are made of steel. I find it hard to believe that the intake would build up so much rust inside that it would choke off the airflow.
The power went down over a 5 year period. That may be an indication of some wear and tear . If the inside of the steel manifold rusted so bad that metal particles got down into the cylinders, it could have scored the walls and hurt compression. That would cause a big power loss. If I was the OP I would do a cylinder leak down test as a check.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
I attribute that to wear and tear plus the motor may have had other issues that where not apparent. Intakes will not lose power unless something is damaged because they are a fixed design.
Question, what are your plans for the Trueleo intake now?
Could you post up pics of the intake? Steel rusts. There is quite a bit of moisture within the system. I know of no manufacturer that makes steel intakes on their vehicles. Aluminum or plastic is what I see.
Just thinking here. Nothing else.
[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 05-20-2017).]
Could you post up pics of the intake? Steel rusts. There is quite a bit of moisture within the system. I know of no manufacturer that makes steel intakes on their vehicles. Aluminum or plastic is what I see.
I failed to mention I rebuilt the engine between in 2015 and put in a bigger cam and the result was I lost 5 more hp but gained 3 ft*lbs of torque and my peak torque moved down 400 rpm but that was due to the cam...mostly. I too, Dennis, assumed I had a compression issue.
What I have learned is airflow is very dependent on the walls it flows thru. So rusted walls increases turbulence and ends up restricting airflow. Rust only increased over time.
[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 05-20-2017).]
Holy heck! When you are done modifying that and removing all of the rust, have it powder coated inside and out. Something is definately getting in your engine.
How does the oil look? As the last of my oil is draining, I let it drain through a paper towel to see the particulates.
I got a set of HF rare earth magnets n i keep one on the oil pan drain plug so metal stays there. U shouldnt have metal shavings just cheap incurance 6pack was a few bucks
Do things rust often where you live? Not excusing this mess, but I am curious if the moisture of the air or something played a part or if this is something that will happen to every Trueleo intake no matter where the car is used?
I guess this is what happens with one off parts built by hobbyists. I really wonder why at a bare minimum didn't he put on a weld through primer on the inside? Or the part could have been submerged into paint and hung to dry. My detail shop at work gets these 5-gallon buckets of black paint they spray on the undersides of cars when they detail them, that probably would have worked well in this situation as its goes on pretty thin yet covers well.
What an amazing intake! It is known to enhance performance of our little obsessions. But, I can see this happening to every one of these. Air is moist. We cannot get around that. I would have a look see if you own one of these intakes.
I'm just curious if anyone has had similar experiences. I'm not going back to it. Since I clearly don't care about looking stock, I went with a ported FIREBIRD 2.8 intake. I had the TB area ported to ~59mm and 3D printed an adapter to mate the twin 48mm TB from a 91 Firebird V8. I hope to have a new dyno in a couple of weeks. Still waiting for my mechanic friend to remove the water separator from the fender-well area and route some cold-air tubing.
[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 05-22-2017).]
I pulled mine last year to have it powdercoated, and there was zero rust inside. Its been on the better part of a decade in humid vermont. Cant speak for all of them, but i can say its possible yo have one not rust.
I am curious if the rusted one has the stock PCV system and/or the EGR operational. The oil mist from the PCV system tends to coat the inside of the intake with an oil film. The EGR allows carbon/soot to build up as well. Both of which should greatly reduce the risk of rust, even with unpainted steel.
I am curious if the rusted one has the stock PCV system and/or the EGR operational. The oil mist from the PCV system tends to coat the inside of the intake with an oil film. The EGR allows carbon/soot to build up as well. Both of which should greatly reduce the risk of rust, even with unpainted steel.
No I block all emission stuff on the race car. I use breathers on the valve covers. An intake shouldn't be made out of iron.
I pulled mine last year to have it powdercoated, and there was zero rust inside. Its been on the better part of a decade in humid vermont. Cant speak for all of them, but i can say its possible yo have one not rust.
How long have you owned it? I first got mine ~2010 ... If you have emissions hooked up, the inside probably got coated with oil and carbon...
[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 05-26-2017).]
So it would seem that a steel intake is OK, provided that you are running PCV.
Edit: for my turbo project, the piping from the turbocompressor to the throttle body is going to be steel (because I can cut/weld it myself). This makes me think, I should probably sandblast the insides and paint the interior with self-etching epoxy primer.
[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 05-26-2017).]
So it would seem that a steel intake is OK, provided that you are running PCV.
Edit: for my turbo project, the piping from the turbocompressor to the throttle body is going to be steel (because I can cut/weld it myself). This makes me think, I should probably sandblast the insides and paint the interior with self-etching epoxy primer.
So that's like the 1 case where emissions control hardware is good for an engine? LOL! When your intake is cast iron. This was not "steel". It was make of poor quality "dom" as I heard it called before. Turbo tubing is usually stainless so I wouldn't worry so much and good luck with your build.
I thought that you were of the opinion that there was no measurable power loss using the stock Fiero upper intake, even on a 3.4.
I'm surprised you were using a Trueleo.
I've had a Trueleo intake since 2010. I've had Trueleo headers since 2008. Don't know where you got that idea from. Though many people were surprised I got more power out of the ported and polished Fiero intake but now it's clear why. The problem I had with the Trueleo is that it took me about 2+ years to iron out some issues in a 7730 conversion I had done at the same time. So by the time I started tuning, it was already installed for 2+ years...not driven much and building up some progressively increasing rust apparently.
When you are done modifying that and removing all of the rust, have it powder coated inside and out. Something is definately getting in your engine. .jpg)
It is known to enhance performance of our little obsessions. But, I can see this happening to every one of these. Air is moist. We cannot get around that. I would have a look see if you own one of these intakes.
