I currently drive (when I get it back together) an 88 2.5 5 speed and the adjustable steering column, not the steering, suddenly became sloppy. This happened on my previous automatic GT and I disassembled the column and re-tightened the bolt with lock tight and all was well. So this column is a little different. I got to the bolts and they are like nothing I've ever seen. They appear to have "Polydrive" heads, similar to an External Torx head. I can't be sure and the sockets apparently are hard to come by. Can anyone tell me what type and size socket I should be looking for?
The bolts use an E8 socket, but can also be tightened with a 1/4" 6-point socket or a 6mm 6-point socket. Locktite is probably not a bad idea on the threads:
It's a very messy thread, but has LOTS of information. Go to the middle of page 3 to find the original post.
[This message has been edited by Gall757 (edited 12-12-2016).]
I just did the steering column on Kevin's for the third time. I found a set of "universal" 1/4 drive sockets that do a really good job emulating an E8. It was like $13 at Sears. It was like $10 for a single E8. BTW, I used Locktite this time. I hope never to have to do those bolts again!!!
I highly recommend the Craftsman universal socket set for this task. You won't want to do 100 lb ft of torque with them, but they worked great on the steering column.
I have an 88 with tilt. It has a jiggle that seems to be in the column and not the rack bushings. Where does this issue commonly occur, are there multiple joints it could be?
Originally posted by Ray_and_kevin: I just did the steering column on Kevin's for the third time.
Stop slamming/pulling the Swheel will stop bending the bracket and column make bolts loose. examples: Steering wheel is not made to used as a handle to get in/out of car. Do Not let wheel to slam when you pull the tilt level.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
Originally posted by 2.5: I have an 88 with tilt. It has a jiggle that seems to be in the column and not the rack bushings. Where does this issue commonly occur, are there multiple joints it could be?
I had this same issue develop on my previous automatic 88 GT but I'm pretty sure that the bolt/screw heads were not an issue. I am guilty of using the steering wheel to assist egress but found after fixing my last Fiero with lock-tight I had no problems. In my defense, I am almost 65, overweight and need all the help available to climb out of the gravity well of a Fiero driver's seat. An slight aside: I found that the horn contactor tube on the cancel cam was broken such that the spring loaded contactor can't be secured. The horn worked a month ago but no more. I guess that age has made the plastic brittle and it finally just gave in and retired. I just found it available from steeringcolumnservices. I can't wait to get one to reassemble mine right now so I'll have to put the broken one back in for the time being.
2.5: I agree with Ogre. You have to be careful not to let the steering wheel slam up or down when adjusting the tilt. I figure that is what Kevin kept doing to his (as well as using it as a hand hold for egress). I tightened the bolts twice before I did the job right and disassembled all the way down to the point I could remove the bolts and use red locktite.
Your jiggle will steadily get worse until you fix it. It is not likely to come apart since the bolts can't fall out, but it sure feels squirrelly when it gets really loose!!!! It is very dangerous to let it get that loose.
As I said, I highly recommend the Craftsman universal sockets for the price and availability for tightening those bolts.
The other thing I found is that you can buy a pivot pin removal tool from several places. You *will* need to remove the pivot pins to do the job right. The problem is that there is a small step in the steering column housing and you will almost certainly kill the tool you buy from Autozone, O'Reilly, etc. on the second pin if you don't on the first one unless you are *very* careful to keep the bolt of the tool perpendicular to the steering housing. I recommend putting the round shroud in a vice and shaving a small step in the piece to allow the bolt to stay at right angle to the housing. The tool is actually pretty inexpensive for the cheap version. Something like $8. You can also order it on line from Amazon! The reason it is so cheap is that every car made with a tilt wheel since prehistoric times (circa 1970) until at least fairly recently is the exact same mechanism for GM, Ford, and Chrysler. Those pivot pins are 8-32 screw threads!!!
Red LT is not a good idea. Blue maybe. I repaired mine 15+ years ago without Locktite and don't have any problem since. I make a point never to let slam when pulling lever etc.
If you beat the Swheel then the column slots and stamped metal can deform (or even break if bad) and that starts making wobble problem. (pdf page 8) Once you have a little damage for that area then bolts have no torque and just get worse and often fast.
LT helps to hide this issue. Red then can't re-tighten etc. Blue might not work either w/o doing more damage to the column parts. Another option that many have... use pipe tape. Teflon will act as Locking Media but is easy to remove/retorque after. Wrap a few turns where the bolt show wear on threads. Don't wrap end too much or can't start the bolts. I use this for AT pan bolts and other places. I don't need to crush the pan or casket to keep pad bolts in place. (Also helps preventing seizing for corrosion.) You clean the bolts to apply tape but oil in the hole don't matter.
There is a good description (I forget the actual URL but a search will find it) with lots of pictures on the forum. Here is a Cliff's Notes version: 1) Remove steering wheel with puller. Inexpensive at Sears, Autozone, etc. 2) Remove all of the stuff for the spring loading. You need the tool you can get at Autozone, etc. That spring clip around the shaft is a bear to get out. I use two small screwdrivers (one is an electronic type from Excellite) to get it started. 3) take out the turn signal stuff. You also take out the high beam switch actuator here. 4) take out the lock stuff. If it is automatic like ours, you need to be careful taking out the bar and gear that goes somewhere down the steering column. (See Ogre's page) 5) Take out the spring for the tilt somewhere around this point. It is a metal cup with a square hole. Most of us just use a #2 or #3 Phillips to twist it out. 6) This is the point where my memory fades. I think you are close at this point where you can take out the hinge pins. Taking out the hinge pins lets you pull back the shroud so you can get to those 4 bolts.
Search the really good multi-page description. It is really great. The hardest part of the job is putting the column back together. Steps 3 and 5 above are where I spent the most time during reassembly. You have to really push on that spring cup to get it back in and twisted to lock. It looks to be a lot easier if you have a correct square drive tool. The real bear is getting that wire thingy that actuates the high beams lined back up and held in place while you put the other stuff around it. I forget what magic I found, but I remember it took a while to see what it took to get it to stay in the right place. It matches up with a plastic curved piece when you put the turn signal stuff back in. It probably makes sense to pay close attention to how it looks as you are taking it apart!
It really isn't that hard, just long and tedious. If you have to do it more than once, you kinda get the hang of it! I think last time it took about an hour and a half to do the whole job and that included fixing my pivot pin tool that broke off pulling the second pin.
Ogre has a picture of a more pricey pivot pin tool on his page (see above) that looks to be a lot more robust ( and more money).
Originally posted by Ray_and_kevin: Search the really good multi-page description. It is really great.
The pdf Gall757 posted above.
Its weird to me with all that is exposed on the steering column, all the shaft parts you can see....that the only parts that wear out you apparently have to take the whole thing apart to fix or tighten.
Originally posted by 2.5: Its weird to me with all that is exposed on the steering column, all the shaft parts you can see....that the only parts that wear out you apparently have to take the whole thing apart to fix or tighten.
For the "wobble problem? " The bolts and plate is the point when column is plane, tilt, tilt/telescope. Same lower tube below this point is likely use by all and have correct mount points, crush zone, etc for the model of car.
Remember Saginaw Steering Columns was used for all GM but by Chrysler and others too and had same problems as Fiero. If you think Tilt columns are hard to fix... Tilt/Telescope units are worse. A little data... http://vintage.mitchell1.co...dch82/V2D8212017.pdf (I don't think T/T columns would fit in a Fiero... T/T head pushes Swheel ~3in to the driver in shortest setting, ~4.5im full extension, vs Tilt only units.)
I don't have the tilt wobble issue. If you refer to the one where you steering wheel can sort of be wobbled around . Mine is slight play side to side. I'm not sure when I will have time to look at it, but this thread should be of help when I do.
Originally posted by 2.5: I don't have the tilt wobble issue. If you refer to the one where you steering wheel can sort of be wobbled around . Mine is slight play side to side. I'm not sure when I will have time to look at it, but this thread should be of help when I do.
Many "bad" Saginaw columns started like this and only get worse over time because of the 4 bolt mounted the head/upper to bottom tube.
ididit columns for custom cars have GM upper/heads w/ better trim and a new lower w/ same bolts but they fully weld the heaver plate to the tube and use Red locktite too. Even their columns can break when abuse by drivers but allot more rare.
I don't have the tilt wobble issue. If you refer to the one where you steering wheel can sort of be wobbled around . Mine is slight play side to side. I'm not sure when I will have time to look at it, but this thread should be of help when I do.
I have an 88 with tilt. It has a jiggle that seems to be in the column and not the rack bushings. Where does this issue commonly occur, are there multiple joints it could be?
It is the bolts, it is always the bolts, the only time I ever saw that it wasn't, the column was just broke. And yes use red lock tite, unless you want to do it again.
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Originally posted by gem1138:
An slight aside: I found that the horn contactor tube on the cancel cam was broken such that the spring loaded contactor can't be secured. The horn worked a month ago but no more. I guess that age has made the plastic brittle and it finally just gave in and retired. I just found it available from steeringcolumnservices. I can't wait to get one to reassemble mine right now so I'll have to put the broken one back in for the time being.
They sell those in the "HELP" section in any auto parts store, just FYI.
