So I headed out to Redwood road to do some dicing thru some twisty turns today.....Just as I'm about to turn around after checking for clear, clean roads with no....bystanders......my engine dies.....I was going to swap the coil first(Relocated to trunk wall) but I had somehow misplaced a 3/16" allen tip to undo it from it's bracket, so I swapped the module instead....started right up. But now I need a new one(Always carry a replacement!) so my question...Which one is the best?
I have heard that AC/Delco is teh best....but then someone stated that his died within a month....I'd really like to get more than a month from the silly thing.....As an aside, why the heck didn't they just put this thing inside the computer? Does it generate it's own extreme heat?
If it were heat that killed them, then most would be dying on hot days. Was it hot the day yours died?
The ignition module fires the coil to produce spark. You wouldn't want to send that high current signal through the ECM. Besides having an independent ICM is a more robust design. Can you imagine having to replace the ECM as often as some replace the ICM?
Some people have ICMs that last 100,000 miles. Some can only get a week out of them repeatedly. It is not the ICM that is different. It's the rest of the ignition system.
[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 10-21-2016).]
I have heard that AC/Delco is teh best....but then someone stated that his died within a month....I'd really like to get more than a month from the silly thing.....
So you're going to go by what one guy has reported on an internet forum... and you have no idea if he installed it correctly... or have any idea of the condition of the rest of his ignition system?
I've been running the same AC Delco ICM for the last eight years, and it wasn't even new when I started using it.
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Does it generate it's own extreme heat?
They get very hot.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 10-22-2016).]
Most all ignition companies have a low priced mass merchandiser item, a mid level 'premium' item that usually includes the necessary electronic contact grease and a better than OE item that is 'overbuilt' and uses all top quality materials. In the standard ignition line they come in a green box (cheap) red box (OE or better) and in some applications a blue box called blue streak that is built to exceed the OE. We don't get blue streak applications for our FIERO's. I used to be a Standard representative and I can assure you there is a difference. An improperly installed item regardless of the price point will fail but if you do it right, and spend the money on at least a mid grade item, chances are you will be successful. I recommend you visit rock auto and lookup the part number you need. You will see that quality reflected in the price point.
PS - most mass merchandisers use the lower quality items in the slower moving applications (Like FIERO) in their private label boxes.
Patrick- I get what you are saying...It's just my wanting a final answer on this(And all) subjects....That's why I asked!
Now, Steve, if I buy a cheaper one and put it in a blue box, would that help...? Sorry, just had to have some fun......But no one makes the "Blue box" high quality type for Fieros is what I'm getting from you...Mine lasted for at least a couple of years- But I can't tell you where I bought it...And 6 months ago I had a situation where the car started running crappy- Turned out to be the distributor cap....The center(Coil) pin was corroded to beat hell...the rest of the pins looked brand new- inside and out....I replaced the cap and the coil wire.
I just picked up some of the "Artic Silver" compound- that appears to be the quality thermal paste....From what I could glean....
Now, Steve, if I buy a cheaper one and put it in a blue box, would that help...?Sorry, just had to have some fun......But no one makes the "Blue box" high quality type for Fieros is what I'm getting from you...Mine lasted for at least a couple of years- But I can't tell you where I bought it...And 6 months ago I had a situation where the car started running crappy- Turned out to be the distributor cap....The center(Coil) pin was corroded to beat hell...the rest of the pins looked brand new- inside and out....I replaced the cap and the coil wire.
You would be surprised at how many times this happens! Warehouse distributors often "Rebox" product when they change over and absorb competitors inventories. On the mechanics level we had customers order the same item (good better best) so that they could look at the difference. We had to inspect the returns from certain shops as they would keep the higher quality item but put the cheap one in the better box for new return credit. I highly recommend that everyone checks out the manufactures web sights to get the information on the products. FYI Standard Tru-Tec (green box) basic product - usually off shore sourced from various manufactures. Red Box -- Industry standard - meets or exceeds OEM - Manufactured in USA and or corporate owned of shore manufactures. Blue Streak - Limited Coverage - Materials superior to OE. USA manufacture - High Performance Applications.
Standard trades under the names - Borg Warner / Neihoff / Standard / GP Sorenson and many more....... Check out SMPCORP.com to get a better understanding of the many products.
Standard trades under the names - Borg Warner / Neihoff / Standard / GP Sorenson and many more....... Check out SMPCORP.com to get a better understanding of the many products.
I can't find a single instance under the SMP/Standard catalog where they have more than one "level" of ICM. This was looking at GM products newer than the Fiero. They do have more than one level of spark plug wire, but never more than one level of ICM, that I saw.
Can you post an example of where SMPcorp has listed more than one level of ICM for a GM car?
AC Delco igniton modules if installed correctly with thermal grease and tight connections will last. I've had one on my 3.4L GT for 10 years and its still working. IIRC they have been made in the same factory in Mexico for years. If failure is a problem it could also be that the heat shield is missing or that the trunk fan is inoperable. Some "brand name" Chinese modules will work on other cars but not in a Fiero.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 10-22-2016).]
I had a trunk fan on my 85 SE....But since I did not have A/C, it NEVER ran! I have been trying to design a setup so that the blower sits behind the (IMSA) scoop on the right side and then run the air along the firewall to blow on the distributor...I have to come up with A) A switch to shut it off(In case of fire(The CSI is right there- a leak there with the blower running could be....exciting....) And B) A temperature switch so it cuts on when the engine warms up.
You guys seem to be in basic agreement on the AC/Delco part- Strangely, the O'Reilly site shows TWO- One at $77 and one at $91....Can't compare them- have to special-order them.
I can't find a single instance under the SMP/Standard catalog where they have more than one "level" of ICM. This was looking at GM products newer than the Fiero. They do have more than one level of spark plug wire, but never more than one level of ICM, that I saw.
Can you post an example of where SMPcorp has listed more than one level of ICM for a GM car?
Sorry for the confusion - In the 'Sub lines' there is rarely a printed catalog. The Standard Tru-tec (t) The Niehoff sub line (cs) etc come to the distributor with a separate price sheet and a master sheet on the Top Line product that show the availability of the sub line. Many part stores use the top line price point but sell the sub line to realize more profit. Again I highly recommend the Rock Auto web sight. They honestly list the product and have links to the manufactures spec sheets. Most sub lines meet the OE specs, most of the premium lines meet or exceed the OEM specs and where available the Hi performance items will be manufactured with materials over and above the manufactures specifications. Brake Pads are a great example - there are often 7+ grades of friction for a single application. Moog has a OE ball joint and a 'problem solver' they also offer basic product that may not include grease, nuts bolts etc...
Repeatedly Frying ICM is very often because is installed wrong, other bad part killing them, or both. HEI ICM need very clean hardware because hardware is the ICM ground. See my Cave, HE Ignition
Some have added Heatsinks to distributor to help ICM dumping heat. Use search.
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Originally posted by steve308: Sorry for the confusion - In the 'Sub lines' there is rarely a printed catalog. The Standard Tru-tec (t) The Niehoff sub line (cs) etc come to the distributor with a separate price sheet and a master sheet on the Top Line product that show the availability of the sub line. Many part stores use the top line price point but sell the sub line to realize more profit. Again I highly recommend the Rock Auto web sight. They honestly list the product and have links to the manufactures spec sheets. Most sub lines meet the OE specs, most of the premium lines meet or exceed the OEM specs and where available the Hi performance items will be manufactured with materials over and above the manufactures specifications. Brake Pads are a great example - there are often 7+ grades of friction for a single application. Moog has a OE ball joint and a 'problem solver' they also offer basic product that may not include grease, nuts bolts etc...
Yup... For V6... Standard has LX340 $43 w/ Five years/50,000 miles and LX340T $29 w/ only 1 year warranty. (all RA prices) ACdelco has two # too, D1943A OE grade $51 & D1984A Pro Grade $57
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
I've had ignition failures in the past like many of you. After replacing the OEM ICM with an aftermarket unit (from a "real" auto parts store, not a discount store), it failed in less than one mile. I replaced it with an A/C-Delco unit. I've had two failures since then, but I attributed both of them to pickup coils (both A/C-Delco, BTW). So now, every time I replace spark plugs (hopefully around the 3000 mile mark) I also:
- Remove ICM and replace the thermal compound. - Apply fresh dielectric grease to the ICM connectors, and plug them in & out about 10 times.
I've been doing this for a while, and it seems to have prolonged the life of my ICM, which has ~60K miles on it.
......Change the sparkplugs.......? I think I have done that maybe 3 times in 180,000 miles.....I have pulled them more often, but they always look pretty good......I ordered the AC/Delco D1984 "Professional" ICM from Amazon...It will be here Monday....I also ordered some more of that "Artic Silver" thermal compound.....I did clean the connectors.....The spare ICM I had must have come from the JY....It says "Made in Usa"....Where the heck is this Usa country I see sometimes...? It seems like they don't make much there.......
Best ignition module? One that works I guess. But given some of these parts may have been sitting on a shelf in a warehouse for many years, it can be a crapshoot if one will work or be reliable when you get one from a parts retailer.
The absolute best option would be to get rid of it all together, plug the distributor hole, and do a 7730 ECM + DIS conversion, which is more reliable, will let you have an even smoother idle, and avoids having to deal with the corrosion which occurs inside the distributor.
...and avoids having to deal with the corrosion which occurs inside the distributor.
This is the distributor I'm still using.Yes, I cleaned it up (and replaced that pickup coil)... but all kidding aside, I don't believe the corrosion actually impairs the operation of the distributor.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 10-23-2016).]
Originally posted by Patrick: This is the distributor I'm still using. Yes, I cleaned it up (and replaced that pickup coil)... but all kidding aside, I don't believe the corrosion actually impairs the operation of the distributor.
I didn't meant just on the pickup. While the corrosion may not stop it from working all together, it can result in rougher idle and a less efficient engine. On the pickup it can affect the timing slightly.
While I agree that a DIS/7730 conversion isn't a trivial task, if someone is at the point of asking the question of what the most reliable options for parts are in the ignition system, because they don't want to deal with the possibility that an ICM might go bad while going round a turn again, it's probably a reasonable option to investigate pursuing. There are far more benefits to the upgrade beyond just getting rid of the ICM problem, including being a more efficient and tuneable engine.
I wasn't suggesting that at all. I was actually referring to the magnetic part and "fingers" when I posted my doubts about corrosion impairing the operation of the distributor. I only referenced the pickup coil due to my previous post.
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Originally posted by dobey:
While the corrosion may not stop it from working all together, it can result in rougher idle and a less efficient engine.
Are you referring to the magnets and "fingers"... or the pickup coil?
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Originally posted by dobey:
While I agree that a DIS/7730 conversion isn't a trivial task, if someone is at the point of asking the question of what the most reliable options for...
"...if someone is at the point..." ?
IMO, asking advice on the "best ignition module" is hardly enough reason to suggest replacing the ECU and entire ignition system.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 10-23-2016).]
I actually would not hesitate to change my engine over to a DIS/7730 system except for one minor detail....I live in CA and have bi-annual smog tests...The 3.4 F-body conversion passes each time- even if it doesn't run quiet....happy.....It's ok when driven full on, but when toodeling around town it has kind of jerky throttle response...and no, it is not the jerk behind the wheel!
I have heard so many different versions of which ecm, which fuel injectors, which mods, etc....to make the 3.4 conversion run good....I've tried a few....anyone want two sets of injectors? I'm using the original L44 injectors....and the plugs look good- Not too lean.......
I was going to move to Trinity county in N. Ca, where they don't require smog checks....But the BOR has decided to drain Trinity lake from now on...so I'd have to sell my boat...I have been going to Trinity for 51 years....They finally found out I like that lake and have taken appropriate measures......
IMO, asking advice on the "best ignition module" is hardly enough reason to suggest replacing the ECU and entire ignition system.
I'm suggesting moving to a more reliable system, which results in a more efficient engine/vehicle, which is easier to repair, and has better parts availability, as a possible solution to reliability concerns, yes.
Really, there simply isn't enough data available to clearly state which ICM is the best, on this forum alone; and nobody is providing any link to a reference which has a significant number of data points in comparison of failure rates of various ICMs from different manufacturers/plants.
Originally posted by cvxjet: I actually would not hesitate to change my engine over to a DIS/7730 system except for one minor detail....I live in CA and have bi-annual smog tests...The 3.4 F-body conversion passes each time- even if it doesn't run quiet....happy.....It's ok when driven full on, but when toodeling around town it has kind of jerky throttle response...and no, it is not the jerk behind the wheel!
If you've already been considering DIS, what has being in CA got to do with it? The engine will be more efficient and be able to produce lower emissions, have a smoother idle, and most likely also have better throttle response. So you might have to smog with the emissions limits of a 1993 engine rather than as the Fiero. I doubt there's much difference, if any, between the emissions specs for the two.
Dobey...In CA you have to pass a visual test.....And they never did a 3.4 with the Fiero intake, tube headers, etc.....They want the whole package and to install a different engine you have to go to a referee station and they go over it with a fine-tooth comb. Believe me, I would not hesitate- and I was looking forward to getting this taken care of as soon as I registered in Trinity county which doesn't need smog checks(Only 13,000 pop').....but like I said, the lake is finished....And I have (Hopefully!) 10 more years of waterskiing and boat camping in me.
I actually installed a 5.0 FI engine in a 1973 mach 1....I went thru the whole referee process...twice. The one thing CA has done right is if you put a newer, cleaner engine in an older pre-catalytic car, they actually don't want you installing the cat- They are worried about car fires(No heat-shield)....they know the newer FI engine is still going to be cleaner than the old carb'd engine even without the cat.
A little (ok a lot) off the topic --- Why is CA draining the lake especially with the water shortage out there. I know it's low as are most lakes out there, are they going to do repair the dam and refill it or keep it drained? I was on the lake a number of years ago and it is a beautiful area.
Originally posted by cvxjet:I was going to move to Trinity county in N. Ca, where they don't require smog checks....
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Originally posted by dobey:I'm suggesting moving to a more reliable system
I would suggest moving to a different state of the Union. Das Republik of Kalifornia is nutz! Huge government which must validate it's existence by creating ever more onerous laws and regulations... a microcosm of the federal goverment.
There are lakes in other states, ya know. Minnesota is the "Land of 10,000 Lakes", and I heard Georgia is #2 with nearly as many lakes as Minnesota.
Anyway, I just installed a DuraLast ICM from AutoZone. It was a red box, with blue trim, and has a lifetime warranty, but I don't know who the "real" manufacturer is, or the quality level.
The inside of my distributor looked pretty bad, but Patrick had me beat! lol
Originally posted by cvxjet: Dobey...In CA you have to pass a visual test.....And they never did a 3.4 with the Fiero intake, tube headers, etc.....They want the whole package and to install a different engine you have to go to a referee station and they go over it with a fine-tooth comb. Believe me, I would not hesitate- and I was looking forward to getting this taken care of as soon as I registered in Trinity county which doesn't need smog checks(Only 13,000 pop').....but like I said, the lake is finished....And I have (Hopefully!) 10 more years of waterskiing and boat camping in me.
Well, the Fiero exhaust would be fine on the 3.4, as long as you have a sufficient cat and muffler installed, because packaging is taken into consideration (cf. LS4/3800 swaps). As for the intake, the 3.4 intake is way better than the Fiero intake, so unless you're dead set on the "stock look" I'd recommend going with that anyway. You'll make more power with it, and throttle response is a bit better due to the intake design.
Sometimes I think that they all come out of the same factory in rural China.
Sometimes I do too.
Mostly I think repeat failures are due to other problems killing the ICM. Bad/weak coil, wire, plug, pickup, cap etc. That and forgetting to use quality heat sink compound.
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 10-24-2016).]
One of mine, has an older ICM in it with GM cast in the plastic on one side, and Singapore on the backside on the metal where you put the heat sink compound. Who knows. But it works well.
A little (ok a lot) off the topic --- Why is CA draining the lake especially with the water shortage out there. I know it's low as are most lakes out there, are they going to do repair the dam and refill it or keep it drained? I was on the lake a number of years ago and it is a beautiful area.
When they built Trinity dam, it was part of the "Central Valley Project".....Shasta and Oroville were part of it. Trinity is supposed to flow to the coast, but they re-engineered it so they could pipe the water to the Central valley....As long as there wasn't a giant drought it wasn't bad....But now we have one, and so now the "Poor farmers" in the CV are crying for more water- They A) claim ALL the water in CA belongs to farmers, B) They have been growing RICE all during the drought(70-90% evap rate!), and C) because the "Poor farmers" are 70% giant corporate farms and 50% of them are owned by Foreign investment firms, they can influence our govt- both State and Federal.......Shasta and Oroville refilled to the top this spring, but Trinity only got up to 62% and is now down to 40%.....Looking at populations of counties tells another part of the story here; Shasta= 300,000......Butte(Oroville) = 200,000 and Trinity county has......13,000! And while Shasta lake looks similar to Trinity, it's a "Spring break" 24/7 kind of place....I could always find a quiet cove at Trinity.....yet I could go waterskiing!
That IS part of it....We need to (Obviously) require EVERYBODY to conserve during a drought; All the cities required everyone to cut back and instigated penalties for over-use....But the farmers in the CV can basically do whatever they want...The southern valley has had their water deliveries cut(It takes actual human infrastructure) but in the northern valley, even if they have metering on their pumps, in the middle of the night they just bring out flatbeds with extra pumps and run them all night pulling extra water right out of the river....The govt knows this is happening, but they just dump extra water in the Sacto to make up the difference.
[This message has been edited by cvxjet (edited 10-24-2016).]
I was going to move to Trinity county in N. Ca, where they don't require smog checks....But the BOR has decided to drain Trinity lake from now on...so I'd have to sell my boat...I have been going to Trinity for 51 years....They finally found out I like that lake and have taken appropriate measures......
Here's a couple of images that Eric emailed me to post for him.
This must be Trinity Lake... looking a little dry.
And this must be Eric's boat with his first mate on board. Pre-drought era?
Thanks Patrick.....Yes, Trinity after 3 years of drought and basically un-usable......and Trinity in 2011...The last time it was full (And beautiful).
Also, I have received the "professional grade" AC/Delco ICM and it's made in that dang country I keep hearing about but can't find on the map; Usa......YOU-saw...Is that how it's pronounced...?
I know you guys aren't generally boat guys, but that's my 1977 Glastron/Carlson CVX-20 jet w/460 Ford-400hp....And it actually is a great water skiing boat....
[This message has been edited by cvxjet (edited 10-26-2016).]
Yes, I cleaned it up (and replaced that pickup coil)... but all kidding aside, I don't believe the corrosion actually impairs the operation of the distributor.
Minnesota is the "Land of 10,000 Lakes", and I heard Georgia is #2 with nearly as many lakes as Minnesota. 
