I have used universal MSD 8.5MM superconductor ignition wire sets on all my Fieros. My 3800 Fiero uses them. I have read some negative criticism from some on this forum about these wires and it puzzles me why someone would think that they are not good. Put a set on 5 yeas ago and the engine still runs strong. No cylinder miss codes or no abnormality reported in the scans. For those who don't recommend this wire set; please tell me why they don't work for you. If one carefully cuts and assembles the coil pack connector ends these wires should work fine.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: I have used universal MSD 8.5MM superconductor ignition wire sets on all my Fieros. My 3800 Fiero uses them. I have read some negative criticism from some on this forum about these wires and it puzzles me why someone would think that they are not good. Put a set on 5 yeas ago and the engine still runs strong. No cylinder miss codes or no abnormality reported in the scans. For those who don't recommend this wire set; please tell me why they don't work for you. If one carefully cuts and assembles the coil pack connector ends these wires should work fine.
The problem I believe lies in advertising and ignorance about ignition systems. First, no matter how many volts an ignition coil is capable of producing, only the required amount of voltage to bridge the spark plug gap is going to be delivered from it. If your engine only requires a maximum of 15-20,000 volts to light off the cylinder charge, a 50,000 volt capable coil will never deliver that voltage. Further more, in the case of MSD, you need their complete ignition system to have the maximum voltage capability they advertise.
How many have purchased these coils and placed them on their otherwise stock ignition systems under the impression they were an improvement? I'm holding my hand up and that's why they not only did not improve my spark blowout problem, but seemed to have made it worse. I got rid of them for OE coils which were much better.
I upgraded to MSD 8.5 mm wires about the same time and measured the touted 50 ohms per foot and still my spark blowout problem was not cured or improved by them. A set of copper plugs gapped narrowly seemed to have fixed the problem finally.
When the misfire under boost returned again (it was on and off for a while each year the MSD wires were in use) about 5 months ago I was tired of wrestling with it and just settled on a misfire limited 10 psi. A month or two ago I noticed the misfire creep in intermittently at light throttle tip in and suspected the wires when new plugs didn't fix it. I searched RockAuto and found a set of premium Bosch wires standard diameter for a friendly price, plugged them in and haven't had a misfire since and have been as high as 17 psi on them so far. The MSD wires were on the car for maybe 3 yrs.
The time on the car is no redemption factor here. They are touted to be better than stock some how but other than the appearance, they did not improve anything in terms of functionality and neither did the MSD coils which caused me to actually do some research and learn some important facts about the ignition system in addition to what I already knew.
Unless data and tests can be shown to the contrary as proof (that one can measure in performance), MSD wires and coils without the complete MSD ignition system more likely than not offers absolutely no appreciable benefit aside from the name and aesthetics (It looked good). In my case they certainly did nothing above and beyond the stock equipment that I could detect during a malfunction area they are suppose to improve.
The stock GM ignition system, and wires are exceptional in ability and given a choice from my experience I would never choose MSD over GM igntion parts. I've learned my lesson, aftermarket alleged performance parts have to offer improvement I can feel for the additional expense, otherwise it's a willful waste of money for me, about like upgrading a stereo system with the ability to play music in a frequency range the human ear can not hear.
Sure many will give a testimony of good news based on a seat of the pants feel in a situation where stock parts are working just fine. I equate that to how much smoother my car seems to ride after it has been washed. It only feels that way when I wash it, never when its rained on. Auto manufacturers don't always get it right, but I'm pretty confident at least for my car MSD is a lateral move in performance enhancements at best.
[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 04-23-2016).]
The problem I believe lies in advertising and ignorance about ignition systems. First, no matter how many volts an ignition coil is capable of producing, only the required amount of voltage to bridge the spark plug gap is going to be delivered from it. If your engine only requires a maximum of 15-20,000 volts to light off the cylinder charge, a 50,000 volt capable coil will never deliver that voltage. Further more, in the case of MSD, you need their complete ignition system to have the maximum voltage capability they advertise.
How many have purchased these coils and placed them on their otherwise stock ignition systems under the impression they were an improvement? I'm holding my hand up and that's why they not only did not improve my spark blowout problem, but seemed to have made it worse. I got rid of them for OE coils which were much better.
I upgraded to MSD 8.5 mm wires about the same time and measured the touted 50 ohms per foot and still my spark blowout problem was not cured or improved by them. A set of copper plugs gapped narrowly seemed to have fixed the problem finally.
When the misfire under boost returned again (it was on and off for a while each year the MSD wires were in use) about 5 months ago I was tired of wrestling with it and just settled on a misfire limited 10 psi. A month or two ago I noticed the misfire creep in intermittently at light throttle tip in and suspected the wires when new plugs didn't fix it. I searched RockAuto and found a set of premium Bosch wires standard diameter for a friendly price, plugged them in and haven't had a misfire since and have been as high as 17 psi on them so far. The MSD wires were on the car for maybe 3 yrs.
The time on the car is no redemption factor here. They are touted to be better than stock some how but other than the appearance, they did not improve anything in terms of functionality and neither did the MSD coils which caused me to actually do some research and learn some important facts about the ignition system in addition to what I already knew.
Unless data and tests can be shown to the contrary as proof (that one can measure in performance), MSD wires and coils without the complete MSD ignition system more likely than not offers absolutely no appreciable benefit aside from the name and aesthetics (It looked good). In my case they certainly did nothing above and beyond the stock equipment that I could detect during a malfunction area they are suppose to improve.
The stock GM ignition system, and wires are exceptional in ability and given a choice from my experience I would never choose MSD over GM igntion parts. I've learned my lesson, aftermarket alleged performance parts have to offer improvement I can feel for the additional expense, otherwise it's a willful waste of money for me, about like upgrading a stereo system with the ability to play music in a frequency range the human ear can not hear.
Sure many will give a testimony of good news based on a seat of the pants feel in a situation where stock parts are working just fine. I equate that to how much smoother my car seems to ride after it has been washed. It only feels that way when I wash it, never when its rained on. Auto manufacturers don't always get it right, but I'm pretty confident at least for my car MSD is a lateral move in performance enhancements at best.
Agree with much that you have said. Spiral core wire of 50 ohms per ft doesn't send more voltage to the plugs but consider that low resistance wires send more current to the plug. The formula is Current = Voltage/Resistance Assuming that the voltage is 12V and the total wire resistance is 12 ohms then you are sending 1 amp of current to the plug, Should give a fatter higher energy spark and that's huge. BTW,I do use the stock 3800 coil pack. See no benefit in the MSD coils As for the plug boots splitting, I'll have to keep an eye on that. That doesn't sound like a good situation..
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
I've heard people complain about the boots (or the terminals?) pulling off, but that sounds more like user installation error. The little jig MSD provides to cut the ends and crimp on the metal terminals couldn't be easier.
I've had mine on the car for (I think) twelve years now, with no issues. No, I didn't notice any performance gains. But no complaints here.
[This message has been edited by css9450 (edited 04-23-2016).]
I won't comment on the MSD ignition wire, but I will say that I do very much like the MSD terminals for plug wires. Unlike all other companies that use a single crimp which requires you to fold the exposed conductor back on the jacket before you crimp the terminal, the MSD terminals use a dual crimp, one for the wire jacket to secure the terminal, and a separate crimp for the conductor.
I have made MSD ignition cables and cannot offer any complaints about their performance.
I do believe that careful crimping of the terminals on the coil pack end has all to do with reliability of the MSD superconductor wire set. I use the MSD crimping tool and then check each wire for continuity and resistance. Although MSD is spiral core copper and not graphite core there is no radio interference. After 5 years still working well.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: I do believe that careful crimping of the terminals on the coil pack end has all to do with reliability of the MSD superconductor wire set. I use the MSD crimping tool and then check each wire for continuity and resistance. Although MSD is spiral core copper and not graphite core there is no radio interference. After 5 years still working well.
I have had TPS and idle problems that I addressed by making a non adjustable TPS adjustable and switching from the 730 ecm to the 727.
Not saying it's definitely the fault of the MSD wires because I didn't consider the fact that they are not RFI suppressed, but I did have radio interference from the MSD wires.
This article can shed some important light on the low resistance claims and thicker insulation that probably drives 95% of why those of us who have tried MSD wires have done so including myself. Look at the info under the heading "Low-resistance" conductors and ask yourself if you would have made the MSD purchase having that knowledge before hand.
The less we know and or can prove/disprove about a performance claim related to a product, the more susceptible we are to common testimonials with little more than subjective opinion and associated euphoria. "Don't believe the hype".
