Tons of threads regarding T-tops in the search but I didn't see this specifically answered, or I just couldn't find it.

Kind of a multi-part question so here goes...

Before 1988, when the T-tops were installed by C&C as an aftermarket item, was the roof and frame modified by cutting into the plastic roof and / or metal roof frame or were new specially manufactured parts installed to replace the factory parts? If they cut away at the original frame did they install a frame stiffener front to back between the glass panels or just cut away the roof in a shape to fit the installation?

Also, when the "factory" option became available in 1988 it is my understanding that Pontiac obtained the same hardware from C&C (with the exception of the seals). At that time, did Pontiac create a new metal roof frame and /or plastic roof panel, or did they (or whoever might have done the actual modification for them) actually hack away at the original metal frame to adapt it to the C&C hardware?

Said another way...Is there a difference in the factory manufactured frame between CJB and Non-CJB cars?

I'm not looking to start another debate on factory vs aftermarket T-tops regarding who did the actual modification or where it was performed. Just looking to understand the questions posed above...

Thanks


------------------
John Wayne as John Bernard Books in The Shootist...
" I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them."

My rides...
1988 GT with a 3.4L V6 automatic
2006 Harley Sportster
'cause I love the twisties on two wheels or four.

[This message has been edited by Rsvl-Rider (edited 02-23-2016).]

They were installed the same way. The t-top frame is the only additional metal added for support. The "kit" became a factory accessory in '88, but only with a few minor changes. Before that, dealers sent cars to C&C for the conversion. I had a few of them.
C&C installed the "factory" units.... GM did not touch them. The center is cut away with a sawsalls all, in both cases

[This message has been edited by jaskispyder (edited 02-23-2016).]

No Fiero ever rolled off the "factory" assembly line with T-Tops.

Just like no conversion vans rolled off of an assembly line.

They are all custom conversions and custom conversions are never "factory".

Daytonas and Superbirds weren't "factory" either but people will argue that as well.

[This message has been edited by Thunderstruck GT (edited 02-23-2016).]

I think it should be clarified... in 88 t-tops were an option that could be added when ordering the car.... a "factory" option. Before that, they were strictly dealer (or aftermarket) conversions.

quote Originally posted by Thunderstruck GT: No Fiero ever rolled off the "factory" assembly line with T-Tops. Just like no conversion vans rolled off of an assembly line. They are all custom conversions and custom conversions are never "factory". Daytonas and Superbirds weren't "factory" either but people will argue that as well.

quote Originally posted by jaskispyder: I think it should be clarified... in 88 t-tops were an option that could be added when ordering the car.... a "factory" authorized aftermarket accessory. Before that, they were strictly dealer (or aftermarket) conversions.

***Fixed***

Until someone shows a photo of a Fiero coming off the end of the "factory" GM assembly line with T-Tops, they are not "factory".

quote Originally posted by Thunderstruck GT: ***Fixed*** Until someone shows a photo of a Fiero coming off the end of the "factory" GM assembly line with T-Tops, they are not "factory".

They were still done in a factory..... just a smaller one The cars were shipped to C&C for the addition of t-tops BEFORE heading to the dealer. This is similar to how ASC conversions were done... many were considered "factory".

http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/a/asc/asc.htm

Prior to 1988, the T-tops were warranted and serviced by the vendor. In 1988, they were the responsibility of General Motors. This is the definition of 'factory' that is accepted around Detroit.

Follow up to my Question

Ok, thanks for all the replies. Looks like we got into that other discussion after all.

So, the reason for my questions were to try to identify a T-top car that I may have access to.

It's been sitting in the backyard for years, and it shows. The owner just wants it gone but couldn't tell me the year or the style, just that it was a Fiero with T-tops. It was his son's project but nothing ever came of it and it has just been wasting away. It will never be on the road again. So I just got back from looking at it to see if I had any interest and hence the questions above. It looks like an 86 SE with the aftermarket T-tops from C&C.

He would like me to tow it away as a parts car. That's not really practical for me so I am thinking about just stripping anything of value and then calling Pick N Pull to take it away. I know some guys will cut off the roof but I'm not sure that is something I want to do. I was wondering if, in addition to the other T-top parts, it might be possible to salvage the back to front stiffener if that has any use or value. Was that piece welded in place or just bolted in?

Here are some pics...Any thoughts?

The front to back stiffener is an integral part of the T-top assembly. It *must* be removed, or there's nothing to support... well, anything.
They were usually riveted in, and sealed with butyl or silicone (I think.)
It will be way easier to remove (however you want to do it) the windshield and back window, and saw through the A and B pillars. That way you can take the entire roof section home and remove rivets at your leisure.

IMPORTANT!! It would be best if you could remove all of the weather stripping, and safely store it, before you cut anything. It is pretty much no longer available. You don't want to damage it. At all. Use some sort of solvent to dissolve the adhesive, and be careful. Take it slowly.

Yup, save weatherstripping and cut roof off. Someone has c&c instructions which will help a lot.

Yes this is what you should do in order of goodness:

1) sawzall off the entire roof including seals and t-top frame and all misc hardware and keep it
2) remove the t-top frame and seals and all the misc. hardware
3) remove the t-top seals and misc hardware
4) remove t-top seals


In other words, the seals alone are worth hundreds since they are largely irreplaceable.

When I decided to install T-tops I bought an entire roof section and had it shipped to me. It was much easier to figure out how to install it when you get to take it apart at your leisure in the garage.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 02-23-2016).]